4x5 macro lens

[felix5616]

I am looking for a true macro lens that cover 4x5 and provides at least 1:1 macro. I would be using it on an ebony wide field camera. Any suggestions?

[Bob Salomon]

120 Apo Macro Sironar, 180 Apo Macro Sironar, 210 Makro Sironar, 300 Makro Sironar, 120 Apo Macro Sironar Digital are some from Rodenstock. The 210 and 300 are out of production.

[Ken Lee]

What is the maximum bellows draw for that camera ? Divide it by 2 and you'll find the focal length of the longest lens you can shoot at 1:1 magnification.

See this page (http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/tech/bellows.php) for some formulas for bellows, magnification, etc.

You might find this brief article on macro and process lenses (http://www.kennethleegallery.com/html/lenses/#Macro) helpful.

[polyglot]

If a shutter is not too important for your purposes, you can use an enlarger lens as they're designed to operate at high magnification. Reverse it if doing magnification > 1.

For magnifications up to 2 you probably want a designed-for-LF lens, e.g. 135 or 150mm. For greater magnifications with reversed lenses, you will probably want to use shorter lenses designed for smaller formats. Pick the shortest focal length that will cover the subject area you're recording as if it were a piece of film that you're enlarging. You will probably need the shorter lenses in order to not run out of bellows, but a longer lens will give you more working room.

Note that for LF macro, you're often doing many-seconds exposures or using flash, so the shutter issue really isn't too limiting.

[Tom Monego]

I have used the 120 Nikon Apo-Macro ED extensively and it is a fine lens. This lens will cover 4x5 with some movements, I photographed pencil shaped microsurgical instruments. At infinity it will cover 6x9. To get 1:1 you will need 240mm of bellows extension. I used it on a Cambo monorail, was difficult on my Linhof Technika IV.

[Leigh]

I use the 180/5.6 Apo Macro Sironar, and think it's an outstanding lens.
This lens is superior to shorter FLs IMO because it gives you greater working depth.

Its ~207mm IC at infinity allows some movements, increasing as the subject gets closer.
At 1:1 the IC is 415mm which will cover 8x10 with lots of movement capacity.

It's a small lens, using 67mm filters, mounted in a Copal 1 shutter.

- Leigh

[Dan Fromm]

Why has everyone forgotten macro lenses from microscope manufacturers? Macro Nikkor, Photar, Luminar, and Neupolar come to mind.

[Leigh]

Hi Dan,

Do you know of a microscope lens with an image circle large enough to cover 4x5?

Different divisions of the company, different design departments, different optical designs.

- Leigh

[Bob Salomon]

Hi Dan,

Do you know of a microscope lens with an image circle large enough to cover 4x5?

Different divisions of the company, different design departments, different optical designs.

- Leigh

The macro lenses like the Luminars and M-Componons did not cover 45 but with the correct lens tube and shutter they could project an excellent image onto a large format negative. Linhof made two different lens/board/tubes/shutters for this purpose. The Linhof Macro Board for Luminars and then for M Componons and the Linhof Micro Board for shooting through a society drawtube on a microscope. Both were equipped with first a Compur 0 and then when they were discontinued with a Copal 0 shutter. These boards were availbale for both the Technika 69 and Technika 45 cameras and were frequently used on Linhof Kardan cameras with a Kardan to Technika adapter board. Since most other systems cameras also had Technika adapter boards the Linhof Macro and Micro boards were used on a very wide range of cameras.

[Leigh]

Hi Bob,

I was not aware that Luminars or M-Componons were microscope lenses????

- Leigh

[Bob Salomon]

Hi Bob,

I was not aware that Luminars or M-Componons were microscope lenses????

- Leigh

Macro lenses, Dan included them in microscope lenses.

[drew.saunders]

I am looking for a true macro lens that cover 4x5 and provides at least 1:1 macro. I would be using it on an ebony wide field camera. Any suggestions?

Which Ebony? The SW45 has only 190mm of bellows, but the 45S, 45SWII and 45SWIII have at least 260mm of bellows. With a 120mm macro you can get 1:1 at 240mm of bellows, so that would likely be your best bet. For the SW45, you might be out of luck for 1:1.

[Dan Fromm]

Hi Dan,

Do you know of a microscope lens with an image circle large enough to cover 4x5?

Different divisions of the company, different design departments, different optical designs.

- LeighLeigh, the lenses I named were intended for close-up photography (magnification below 1:1) and photomacrography (magnification 1:1 and more) with a single stage of magnification. Microscope objectives are designed for two stages of magnification, one from the objective and the other from the eyepiece. The lenses I named all cover 4x5 at their recommended working magnifications, which depends on focal length.

A few of them and several I hadn't mentioned, with recommended magnifications, taken from Brian Bracegirdle's little book Scientific Photomacrography:

Leitz Photar 80/4.5, 1 - 4 x; 120/5.6 0.5 - 2x

Nikon Macro-Nikkor 120/6.3, 0.5 - 4x

Olympus Zuiko-Macro 80/4, 1 - 3 x

Zeiss Luminar 100/6.3, 0.8 - 8x.

Bracegirdle also says that Leitz Summars and Milars will do the job, but (my opinion, he doesn't say it, these aren't up to the ones listed above). 80/4.5 and 120/4.5 Summars, 0.9 - 7x and 0.7 - 4x respectively. 100/4.5 Milar, 0.8 - 5x.

I've had a badly abused 100/6.3 Luminar, a terrible lens, and have had the opportunity to use a known good one. The known good one isn't quite up to the 100/6.3 Neupolar made for low magnification photomacrography with several models of Reichert metallographs. It does superbly on 2x3 from around 1:4 to 8:1. As a practical matter -- remember that although I have Cambo gear I use, for the most part, 2x3 Graphics -- I rarely shoot my 100 Neupolar above 2:1. Shooting at even 2:1 in the field isn't easy.

I'm surprised you weren't aware of these lenses. You might want to buy a copy of the Bracegirdle book. It is #31 in the Royao Microscopical Society's series Microscopy Handbooks.

[Leigh]

The lenses I named all cover 4x5 at their recommended working magnifications, which depends on focal length.
Hi Dan,

The problem with that is many of those lenses don't qualify as "general purpose", i.e. one that you could put on a camera and take into the field with the hope of finding small subjects to photograph, but still covering larger subjects.

A macro lens that just covers a 4x5 film at 1:1 is not a 4x5 lens, it's a 2¼-square lens, maybe.

A good example of a 4x5 macro lens is the Rodenstock Apo-Macro-Sironar 180/5.6.
It has an IC of 415mm @ 1:1 and f/16. At infinity its IC is still 207mm, enough to cover 4x5 with movements.

That is a lens that can be carried and used without worrying about the particular magnification needed.

If you're putting a lens on a process camera, with a limited range of distances from film to subject, then a dedicated macro lens make sense.
But for carrying a kit in the field, I prefer a more generally usable optic.

The thread subject as stated by the OP was specifically for use on a field camera.

- Leigh

[Dan Fromm]

Leigh, the original question was "I am looking for a true macro lens that cover 4x5 and provides at least 1:1 macro. I would be using it on an ebony wide field camera. Any suggestions?"

The OP didn't ask about general purpose lenses. You're warping his request for a macro lens to fit your need for general purpose lenses. The lenses I mentioned are absolutely not general purpose lenses. They are made for one purpose. Closeup photography and photomacrography on 4x5. All of them, even the short focal length ones that absolutely positively don't cover 4x5 at 1:1. And they're all very good at what they do. General purpose lenses don't come close.

One of the weaknesses of forums like this one is that people on them often answer posts that ask how to solve a problem with "this is what I use" rather than "this is what would make sense in your situation." We should respond to questions as asked instead of recommending what we prefer and being negative about suggestions involving equipment we're not familiar with and, sometimes, know absolutely nothing about.

[pierre506]

Leigh, the original question was "I am looking for a true macro lens that cover 4x5 and provides at least 1:1 macro. I would be using it on an ebony wide field camera. Any suggestions?"

The OP didn't ask about general purpose lenses. You're warping his request for a macro lens to fit your need for general purpose lenses. The lenses I mentioned are absolutely not general purpose lenses. They are made for one purpose. Closeup photography and photomacrography on 4x5. All of them, even the short focal length ones that absolutely positively don't cover 4x5 at 1:1. And they're all very good at what they do. General purpose lenses don't come close.

One of the weaknesses of forums like this one is that people on them often answer posts that ask how to solve a problem with "this is what I use" rather than "this is what would make sense in your situation." We should respond to questions as asked instead of recommending what we prefer and being negative about suggestions involving equipment we're not familiar with and, sometimes, know absolutely nothing about.

Agreed~

[Leigh]

All of them, even the short focal length ones that absolutely positively don't cover 4x5 at 1:1.
But the OP asked about lenses that DO cover 4x5.

Now who's veering off-topic?

- Leigh

[Dan Fromm]

But the OP asked about lenses that DO cover 4x5.

Now who's veering off-topic?

- LeighLeigh, your lack of reading comprehension is very distressing. I hope it isn't age-related and permanent. You've given me reason to worry about you and to be concerned about my own future.

In post #13 in this thread I listed a number of macro lenses from microscope manufacturers that cover 4x5 at magnifications somewhat lower than 1:1. Go back and read it. And buy a copy of Scientific Photomacrography and read it too.

[Racer X 69]

Leigh, your lack of reading comprehension is very distressing. I hope it isn't age-related and permanent. You've given me reason to worry about you and to be concerned about my own future.

In post #13 in this thread I listed a number of macro lenses from microscope manufacturers that cover 4x5 at magnifications somewhat lower than 1:1. Go back and read it. And buy a copy of Scientific Photomacrography and read it too.

Touché.

[Leigh]

In post #13 in this thread I listed a number of macro lenses from microscope manufacturers that cover 4x5...
Dan,

We all know that you have a vast collection of antiques and relics, some of which may predate the invention of light itself.

I was under the impression that the OP wanted a high-quality modern lens.

My error.

- Leigh

[Dan Fromm]

I was under the impression that the OP wanted a high-quality modern lens.
- Leigh

And what, pray, are Macro Nikkors and Photars, if they're not high quality modern lenses? Luminars, too, and the 100/6.3 Neupolar. Leitz' Milars and Summars for photomacrography are a cut below the latest most best, and I think I said so.

Leigh, in one annual review at Bell Labs my then supervisor remarked that although I was the most open-minded person he'd ever seen when I was solving a problem I had the bad habit of ignoring alternative solutions after I decided I had the best one. He suggested that I should revisit my conclusions and the reasoning that led to them from time to time as a project progressed. I thought this over, decided he was right, and added "check the model and reasons for rejecting alternative solutions" to my internal check list. You should do the same. In this case, get the data. At the moment you're repeating an old wives' tale.

[Taija71A]

... We all know that you have a vast collection of antiques and relics, some of which may 'predate the invention of light itself'...

____

Good one Leigh! Thanks!
--
That was definitely my Photography "Laugh of the Day"! :D :D :D
Best,

-Tim.
________

[Bruce Pottorff]

I have a 120 Nikaon Macro ED, never used, like new, in the box. PM if you are interested.

Bruce Pottorff