View Full Version : 5x7 prototype
Hello all,
I just finished my first LF camera, a non-folding 5x7 with rise and fall movements only. I made it primarily to shoot architecture with wide angle lenses only, a Nikkor 120 SW for example. I can however focus a Komura 152mm lens down to about 2 feet.
The removable back is held in place with Neodym magnets. The bellows are made from 2 layers of the Thorlabs BK5 fabric and are a mixture of folded and bag bellows (a la Chamonix). Fully folded bellows would not allow enough rise and bag bellows just didn't look right.
Many features need to be improved, mainly the spring back, which, while functional, came out a little crafty and not very elegant. I'll have to come up with a different design on the next build.
Thoughts, suggestions, critisism, questions (and answers) are welcome .:-)
JP
http://s20.postimg.cc/g1a7a8g25/mutti_5x7_1.jpg (http://postimage.cc/)
http://s20.postimg.cc/h9thi4iml/mutti_5x7_2.jpg (http://postimage.cc/)
http://s20.postimg.cc/4jp951aod/mutti_5x7_3.jpg (http://postimage.cc/)
http://s20.postimg.cc/99js7dr2l/mutti_5x7_4.jpg (http://postimage.cc/)
pics of back (and my son ... )
url=http://postimage.cc/]http://s20.postimg.cc/mp6swtzkd/mutti_5x7_5.jpg[/url]
http://s20.postimg.cc/r9ody0tvx/mutti_5x7_6.jpg (http://postimage.cc/)
Tin Can
14-Sep-2013, 14:58
Wow!
Very nice!
Gives me ideas...
That's a gorgeous piece of work. What kind of wood is that? Also, what did you use for the bellows stiffeners and cement? The only thing that seems out of place are the back springs, which look spindly next to the rest of the metalwork. All in all, magnificent for a first camera.
Slick!
I like the rear brace setup. Having just finished an 8x10 using the same linear guide bearings, they make for a very smooth and sturdy focus mechanism. Interesting configuration using them at 90 degrees (probably how they were designed) to what chamonix does.
No tilt locks?
I'm guessing you used a cnc mill?
John Kasaian
14-Sep-2013, 16:42
very cool!
Thank you all for the compliments :-)
That's a gorgeous piece of work. What kind of wood is that? Also, what did you use for the bellows stiffeners and cement? The only thing that seems out of place are the back springs, which look spindly next to the rest of the metalwork. All in all, magnificent for a first camera.
The wood is flamed maple. First stained black and sanded back to enhance the figure, then stained a light red and a few coats of tung oil.
The stiffeners are made out of 0.01" thick plastic/acrylic and are glued to the fabric with 3M transfer tape. In fact, all glue joints in the bellows are done with transfer tape. I had tried all other glues/cements out there ( HH-66, reg. contact cement, epoxies, superglues, spray on 77 etc. ) but none really worked for me. While transfer tape is not bonding/fusing the fabric together forever, the bond is strong enough and will not come apart on it's own.
Yes, the back springs are flimsy and look out of place. The design department seemed to have taken the easy way out ...
Slick!
I like the rear brace setup. Having just finished an 8x10 using the same linear guide bearings, they make for a very smooth and sturdy focus mechanism. Interesting configuration using them at 90 degrees (probably how they were designed) to what chamonix does.
No tilt locks?
I'm guessing you used a cnc mill?
The linear bearings are fantastic. Super smooth AND solid as a rock. The Chamonix cameras are such nice and well designed cameras, it's hard not to copy/sample some of their concepts, but the bearing-and-lead-screw combo is just too good to not do.
The front lens-panel can not tilt, as there are small bump-outs behind the vertical alu standards that keep it in line.
I used a CNC for just about everything on the camera, wood and aluminum, and a laser to cut the bellows stiffeners. In fact, I probably didn't cut a single thing by hand, except some rough lumber before slapping the blanks on the CNC table. I did spend an obsene amount of time however, modeling every part in Rhino 3D and generating toolpaths for the CNC.
Joe Smigiel
14-Sep-2013, 19:18
Very nice. I love the wood. That is one sharp-looking camera.
I do have questions about the BK-5 bellows. The sample I obtained from Thor Labs several years ago was very shiny on the outside nylon surface and the rubberized surface was a medium gray rather than near black as was the old Porter's material. Is it still that way? Have you taken any photos with it yet? I'm wondering if flare might be a problem. I'm also curious about the stiffeners and adhesive.
The bellows looks very attractive too.
Oren Grad
14-Sep-2013, 19:30
The linear bearings are fantastic. Super smooth AND solid as a rock. The Chamonix cameras are such nice and well designed cameras, it's hard not to copy/sample some of their concepts, but the bearing-and-lead-screw combo is just too good to not do.
Credit where credit is due: that innovation came from Dick Phillips; Chamonix copied him.
That aside, my reaction too was "Wow!" That's one fantabulous camera. Thanks for sharing, congratulations, and enjoy!
Very nice. I love the wood. That is one sharp-looking camera.
I do have questions about the BK-5 bellows. The sample I obtained from Thor Labs several years ago was very shiny on the outside nylon surface and the rubberized surface was a medium gray rather than near black as was the old Porter's material. Is it still that way? Have you taken any photos with it yet? I'm wondering if flare might be a problem. I'm also curious about the stiffeners and adhesive.
The bellows looks very attractive too.
The Nylon side of the fabric has some shine to it (as seen in the pictures) and the rubberized side is even shinier, but black. I lightly spray painted the inside of the bellows, which is the matt nylon fabric, with a ultra-flat black paint to kill some of the potential reflections. I have taken about 16 pictures with it so far, under different lighting conditions and internal flares seem to not be a problem (and everything else is light tight as well :-) )
The complete bellows is held together, incl. stiffeners, with 3M transfer tape. We use this stuff at work (architectural model shop) to permanently join various parts/materials together. No facade has fallen off yet ...
HH-66 worked great on the rubber-side of the fabric, but not so well on the nylon side, plus it was just too messy to work with.
Dave Wooten
14-Sep-2013, 19:50
Where can one source linear bearing and drive screw, or did you cnc those?
Credit where credit is due: that innovation came from Dick Phillips; Chamonix copied him.
That aside, my reaction too was "Wow!" That's one fantabulous camera. Thanks for sharing, congratulations, and enjoy!
I had to google Dick Phillips. That "bent" focus knob is quite nifty.
Thanks for the positive vibes :-)
Graham Patterson
14-Sep-2013, 19:53
That sets the bar pretty high 8-) Really looks the part.
The back support brackets suggest that adding some rear tilt would be simple enough if you find the need for it.
Where can one source linear bearing and drive screw, or did you cnc those?
McMaster-Carr has a good selection of bearings and lead screws, but they are expensive.
I got mine on eBay, the bearings were used from Korea and the screw was also surplus.
If only I could mill leadscrews AND linear bearings ... that would be something :-)
Dave Wooten
14-Sep-2013, 22:20
Thanks
David Karp
14-Sep-2013, 22:58
Wow!
Daniel Moore
14-Sep-2013, 23:31
Luckily I was rubbing my left eye when first viewing this. It allowed me to find the right one, which rolled under the desk. Just wow.
Tin Can
15-Sep-2013, 00:32
I have been using a few different doubled sided 3M tapes on DIY camera parts.
Which tape exactly did you use for the bellows?
Thanks!
I have been using a few different doubled sided 3M tapes on DIY camera parts.
Which tape exactly did you use for the bellows?
Thanks!
I think we are using this type, #465:
http://www.amazon.com/465-Adhesive-Transfer-Tape-60yds/dp/B000V4PGMM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379243039&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+465+adhesive+transfer+tape
I realize that there are other types that have different adhesion properties that might be better or worse for nylon fabrics.
I'd love to see a comparison ...
That sets the bar pretty high 8-) Really looks the part.
The back support brackets suggest that adding some rear tilt would be simple enough if you find the need for it.
That's true, I just never had the need to do anything other then front rise and fall, and I do that excessively. The upside of the limited/no-movement approach is that the camera is very sturdy AND relatively light.
Dave, Hiwin sells the linear guide bearing setups here in the u.s. this is the brand chamonix used on their earlier cameras. Torqspline makes the leadscrews.
Ken Lee
15-Sep-2013, 05:37
The camera is beautiful, the design and execution are elegant... but most impressive of all is that you appear to be no more than around 12 years old :)
Tin Can
15-Sep-2013, 07:56
Thanks for the tape info, I am a big believer in 3M tape, after all I am from Minnesota!
I think we are using this type, #465:
http://www.amazon.com/465-Adhesive-Transfer-Tape-60yds/dp/B000V4PGMM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1379243039&sr=8-1&keywords=3m+465+adhesive+transfer+tape
I realize that there are other types that have different adhesion properties that might be better or worse for nylon fabrics.
I'd love to see a comparison ...
well done, beautifully finished...
The camera is beautiful, the design and execution are elegant... but most impressive of all is that you appear to be no more than around 12 years old :)
Thank you.
Actually, my son is 9. Wise beyond his years ... :-)
Beautiful camera. Outstanding work on the build. Enjoy shooting with it.
Dave, Hiwin sells the linear guide bearing setups here in the u.s. this is the brand chamonix used on their earlier cameras. Torqspline makes the leadscrews.
Also try this site:
http://www.automation4less.com/store/linearind2.asp
They have better prices then McMaster it seems. You just have to register/create an account to see the prices.
well done, beautifully finished...
Beautiful camera. Outstanding work on the build. Enjoy shooting with it.
Thank you guys :-)
Hi,
your camera is really a masterpiece of engineering, wow. I have two questions:
1) Could the camera base potentially appear in the image if you focus close with a super wide angle lens ? If you primarily need rise on the front it may not be an issue though.
2) How did you fix the bellows at the front and back piece ? Just a snug fit ? I bought a Sinar wide-angle bellows for my DIY construction, but I am not sure how to design this connection. I'd be glad if you (or others) could share some experiences here.
Have fun and good light,
Lars
That's a good question and I really hadn't thought about it, BUT I took some pictures this past weekend with a 90mm lens in portrait orientation, focused at infinity, and the base does not appear! Lucky me :)
The ends of the bellows are glued to black acrylic frames that are then screwed to the front and back standards, with tinny 2-50 size screws. Not the best/easiest/most convenient method, but it worked for this prototype. I am in thinking about my next build and will definitely come up with a different attachment mode.
Thanks for the compliment.
Hi,
your camera is really a masterpiece of engineering, wow. I have two questions:
1) Could the camera base potentially appear in the image if you focus close with a super wide angle lens ? If you primarily need rise on the front it may not be an issue though.
2) How did you fix the bellows at the front and back piece ? Just a snug fit ? I bought a Sinar wide-angle bellows for my DIY construction, but I am not sure how to design this connection. I'd be glad if you (or others) could share some experiences here.
Have fun and good light,
Lars
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