Starting Out in LF

[Trenchleton]

Howdy! I just found my way into an Omega 45E with a Schneider-Kreuznach Xenar 210mm f6.1 lens. I'm new to this, though accustomed to medium and small formats for several years now. My biggest concern has been whether or not to invest in a daylight tank for film, or whether to go with trays. I'm used to developing rolls in tanks, but I am pretty comfortable in the dark. Thoughts?

Side note: excited to be entering into the larger world. Thanks for having me here.

[Leigh]

Hi, and welcome aboard.

I generally prefer daylight tanks for 4x5, although I've used trays occasionally. I use trays for 8x10.

There are several different daylight tanks available for 4x5, differing in both type and detail.
I don't know of any that are perfect.

I prefer the squarish tanks that hold the film relatively flat, vertically, as opposed to those that
try to twist it around in a circle.

I expect you'll get a lot of different opinions.
Everybody tends to promote the technique with which they achieve the best success.

- Leigh

[John Kasaian]

If you're shooting B&W give trays a try first. You may like it! Don't spend money on more gear unless you have too (you'll spend enough of that on film, paper and chemicals)

[ic-racer]

Howdy! I just found my way into an Omega 45E with a Schneider-Kreuznach Xenar 210mm f6.1 lens. I'm new to this, though accustomed to medium and small formats for several years now. My biggest concern has been whether or not to invest in a daylight tank for film, or whether to go with trays. I'm used to developing rolls in tanks, but I am pretty comfortable in the dark. Thoughts?

Side note: excited to be entering into the larger world. Thanks for having me here.

I'd start with inexpensive trays. Some of the alternative processing equipment can be pretty expensive, so getting some LF experience first may help your choice of the following:

Combiplan
Mod 45
Patterson Orbital
Beselr and Ciba Print Drums on roller base
BTZ tubes
Jobo Print Drums on Jobo processor
Jobo 4500 4x5 film drums/reels with inversion processing or on a Jobo processor
Jobo Expert Drums on Jobo processor
Jobo Expert Drums on roller base
Nitrogen burst tanks
Dip and dunk tanks
Versamat
etc.

[AtlantaTerry]

Mod 45

Actually, it is "MOD54".
http://www.mod54.com/about.php

[ic-racer]

Actually, it is "MOD54".
http://www.mod54.com/about.php

Those British...don't they know you can't buy 5x4 film in the USA...

[Taija71A]

Those British...don't they know you can't buy 5x4 film in the USA...

____

:)

I always thought... That 4x5 Film was for 'Horizontals' and that 5x4 Film -- Was just for 'Verticals'! :D

-Tim.
________

[C_Remington]

When I started, I asked all the same questions but, you'll never find the right answer here. I discovered (for me) the journey was the destination. I have tried Paterson Orbital, Unicolor Tanks, Trays, Dip & Dunk, Vertical Stand Development, Yankee Daylight tanks, etc. At the same time, you'll want to know which developer is "best." I did too and have used various Pyro formulas, Rodinal, D-76, Ilford developoers, HC-110, blah blah blah.

My point is, the fact that you're even asking the question, leads me to believe that you're curious: Just go with it. Everyone will tell you the best course is to nail down your materials and process and just focus on the image capture and the art of printing.

That's great if you're wired that way, if not, don't fight it.

[Trenchleton]

Some good points out there for sure. I think I'm going to cut some RC to shoot and practice developing that in trays under safelight then darkness. Get some practice in. I have 5x7 trays already so that's also cheapest. Having a hard enough time just getting a film holder. Investing in a tank is low on the list. Thanks everyone!

[Leigh]

You cannot develop film under a safelight, except for some really exotic emulsions.

- Leigh

[Trenchleton]

Yeah I know. I just meant starting out with a safelight using RC paper cut to fit. So I can get a feel for the agitation process.

[Jim Andrada]

Ah yes, agitation. Another huge can of worms or opportunity to experiment and optimize.

Don't use trays that are the same size as your film. For 4 x 5 I would use 5 x 7 or even 8 x 10 trays. Give your negatives a bit of room to travel around in the trays. It will help to improve edge to edge uniformity.

Oops, just noticed that you had a;ready mentioned having 5 x 7 trays. Perils of posting at 3AM from a hotel room while on a business trip.

[David Schaller]

I use 5x7 trays for 4x5 with good results. If you start out doing one sheet at a time in trays, and perfect your technique, then you can move on to try multiple sheets in trays or in tanks. But for those priceless negatives, that you can't screw up, I always go back to one sheet in trays.
Dave

[Leigh]

But for those priceless negatives, that you can't screw u...
As an aside, there's a technique that's uniquely available in LF for protecting those priceless images...

Take multiple exposures, at least two, perhaps four, and process only one at a time.

Not only does this provide a safety net in case you put the fix in before the developer, but it enables you
to modify the processing if desired to achieve a different rendering on the negative.

- Leigh

[Trenchleton]

Since agitation is being mentioned, I've always just rocked the tray back and forth gently with prints. Is that an ok process with film? At least when developing single sheets. I realize that'd be scratchier for multiple sheets.

[Leigh]

Tray development argues for using a developer that requires minimal agitation, like Rodinal.

You'll find that Diafine is a very good choice since it is insensitive to temperature variations, and always requires five minutes in each solution regardless of film type, again with minimal agitation.

I agitate by just shuffling through the stack (seldom do a single sheet).

Put a sheet in flat, face down, and push it below the surface. Repeat with each subsequent sheet.

To agitate, remove the bottom sheet by lifting one end and pulling it out, then put it back on top as before.
Doing it this way keeps the emulsion away from everything. Only the very ends touch the tray or other films.

- Leigh

[Trenchleton]

Gah, it's gonna be hard to let go of my 1+1 D-76. We've been through some hard times together.

[AtlantaTerry]

Gah, it's gonna be hard to let go of my 1+1 D-76. We've been through some hard times together.

+1

[Trenchleton]

Yeah, I always use D-76 diluted 1 to 1. Served me well with Roll film.

[Trenchleton]

Just realized you were agreeing with me. I, uh, I don't internet well.

[Regular Rod]

Howdy! I just found my way into an Omega 45E with a Schneider-Kreuznach Xenar 210mm f6.1 lens. I'm new to this, though accustomed to medium and small formats for several years now. My biggest concern has been whether or not to invest in a daylight tank for film, or whether to go with trays. I'm used to developing rolls in tanks, but I am pretty comfortable in the dark. Thoughts?

Side note: excited to be entering into the larger world. Thanks for having me here.

Trays are great but inconvenient if you want to keep your hands out of the chemicals. Tanks are not as versatile for black and white films as trays are. The remedy is an easily modified Paterson Orbital Processor (http://freepdfhosting.com/f640343f29.pdf). I get mine from eBay.

RR

[Trenchleton]

Some independent research has led me to think slosher baskets might be the way for me. I'm pretty handy with DIY so I think I should be able to do some fairly easily.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Another kind of tray was the Honeywell Nikor Print/Film Developing 'canoe', a stainless steel, curved, rocking tray. Its major virtue was that it used very little chemistry and could be put into another tray of water of proper temperature. I have three new-in-box. :) (I use drums on motor bases.)