working with a Rodenstock ronar 360mm F9 for architecture

[artyvisual]

Being relative new on large format (4x5); I've been now shooting for a year now 4x5, and doing most architecture, I found that my longest 210mm isn't long enough for detail shooting. So I am orientating on longer lenses. From all I read so far, me ideal lens seems to be a Fujinon 450. But that is way out of my budget!
I came along some cheap process lenses, and found a Rodenstock ronar 360mm F9 decent priced. I saw them on the ebay starting from 20 USD(!!) (The one I saw will be probably around the 75). I will use it on a Sinar F. Is this a workable lens for shooting architecture? And why is tht much cheaper than 'regular' camera lenses?

[Daniel Stone]

well if you don't mind using a barrel(so no central shutter) lens, then they work splendidly for pretty much anything :)

APO-Ronar's and Artar's were designed for graphic art's use, and reproduction work, primarily. As their name suggests, they are APO corrected, so wonderful for shooting color film, but equally suitable for b/w films as well. I'd venture to guess that most were used for doing color separations, so APO correction was a necessity for the most accurate repro work.

If you have the Sinar DB shutter system on your Sinar F, then you should be fine. Just make sure that the lens has a flange/mounting ring so you can have a lensboard bored to accomodate it. Then use the DB shutter to time your exposure, setting your aperture on the lens' aperture ring. This is 1. An inexpensive way to have many lenses of different focal lengths w/ (1) shutter, and 2. A great way to have wonderful lenses, that didn't cost you much money(most of the time ;)!)

However, if you WANT or NEED a "central"(aka lens elements are mounted to the shutter directly), you'll most likely be spending much more for that convenience. 360mm process lenses are quite commonplace, and are frequently available for a small portion of their original, new, selling price. And IMO, just as high(sometimes better, IMO) quality as more modern lenses.
I personally prefer the rendering of more modern glass w/ more modern coatings, but I have used process lenses and older designs(dagors and artars primarily) and they have all been wonderful performers.

Definitely decide if you need a shutter mounted lens vs starting yourself down the deep, dark, path of many barrel lenses and the Sinar DB shutter system ;)

cheers,
-Dan

[artyvisual]

Thank you Daniel.
I have a Sinar Copal (DB) shutter, and I always use it, so it seems that will be no problem. (if the rear element isn't to long so it will hit the apparture blades!). I also have a Sinar plate with a Copal 1 shutter unused, but if I understand you correctly, it is easier to remove the copal 1, mount the 360mm and use the DB shutter (if that will fit... is there any where I can look up what the diameter will be for this particular lens?)

[artyvisual]

Already found out that this lens needs a copal 3 size opening in lensboard
great data source btw:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/FrameWork/Product_Resources/SourceBookProPhoto/Section04LgFormatLenses.pdf

[Peter Yeti]

The Apo-Ronar 9/360 needs a Copal #3 shutter, so your #1 shutter would not fit. It also is purported that the barrel version of the Apo-Ronars are adjusted for copy work between 1:1 and 1:20 while the shutter version is adjusted for work up to infinity. The coating may also vary (single vs. multi coating) between these versions. My Apo-Ronar in the shuttered version is great for outdoors work at infinity and has multi-coating.

[artyvisual]

Is there any way you can tell what kind of coating is used or do you have to look that up by serial number? Reading more about it, I think I might go for the 480mm if I can find one decently priced. I have the extra bellows, I only need some larger extension rail I guess. I think it will make more sens to go from 210 all the way up to 480mm, so I have one really long lens.

[tgtaylor]

I have the 480mm which is multi-coated (it says so on the barrel) and is mounted in a copal 3 shutter. I got it for use with the 8x10 camera and would love to use it with my 4x5 Toyo-View Robos camera but would need to get a long bellows as the standard bellows won't take most lens beyond the 360mm focal length. It's a great lens!

Thomas

[Ken Lee]

Is this a workable lens for shooting architecture? And why is that much cheaper than 'regular' camera lenses?

Ronars, Artars and APO Nikkors have modest coverage compared to other designs like the more "standard" plasmat. Abundant coverage facilitates architectural photography with a view camera: the more the merrier.

They are often barrel-mounted rather than shutter-mounted. They open to only f/9, which makes them harder to use in dim light than other designs like typical plasmats which open to f/5.6

As you know on 4x5 film, a 360mm lens will have plenty of coverage to spare, even if it's one of these lenses. For shooting outdoors it will be easy enough to compose and focus except under dim light.

[hiend61]

Is there any way you can tell what kind of coating is used or do you have to look that up by serial number? Reading more about it, I think I might go for the 480mm if I can find one decently priced. I have the extra bellows, I only need some larger extension rail I guess. I think it will make more sens to go from 210 all the way up to 480mm, so I have one really long lens.

If an Apo Ronar is multicoated, it displays MC letters in the barrel. As I know, only shutter mounted Apo Ronars are multicoated, with the exception of the Apo Sinaron 600/9 which is a Sinar rebranded version of the Apo Ronar CL 600/9 which has no shutter, and all the Apo Ronars from 150 to 480mm mounted in Sinar DBM boards, usually rebranded as Apo Sinaron. If you already have a Sinar shutter this would be a cheaper option.

The Apo Ronar 480/9 is a fantastic lens, but you will need a plate base with 2 screws and an additional rail clamp to secure the stability of your camera with a 480mm lens. Using this reduces dramatically the risk of camera shake. Have also a look to the Nikkor M 450/9. It´s also a very fine lens.

[Struan Gray]

I don't think a 480 mm Apo-Ronar in shutter will be usable on a Sinar F with a single bellows - you will probably need an additional standard and a second bellows. I *know* it won't work with my Norma and a modern standard bellows.

A 465 mm (18") Apo-Ronar, which was only available in barrel I think, will just work, but depending on how tight you want to pull your bellows, you won't be able to focus to portrait distances.

I have a 420 mm Apo-ronar in Copal 3, which works well with a single standard bellows and 18" of rail on my Norma. The bellows get tight, and I need the extra 1" provided by the rail cap and the full extension of both focussing slides to get to portrait distances, but it works.


The 420s and 465s are not as common as the 480s, but they often command lower prices when they do appear. Less exalted versions of the same lens design (I started with an 18" Wray APO-Lustrar) are even cheaper.

[artyvisual]

thank you Struan. Never knew that they was also a 420mm. But shooting at long focus distances (infinity) for architecture, I don't think I can focus without extension rail/bellow on a 420mm. (Although stopped down I might make it) I think I will go for the 360mm just to be sure I can always use it.