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bracan
5-Sep-2013, 04:06
Hello friends,
Does anyone have or see this lens: Carl Dietzler Wien No808.

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CCHarrison
5-Sep-2013, 04:29
About 1856, Petzval made an agreement with Dietzler ( An optician from Vienna ) to produce both Petzval and Orthoscopic lenses. Dietzler passed in 1862. I would venture your lens is c. 1858/9 assuming the cut for stops is original. Dietzler also produced some parts for Voigtlander's brass tubes previous to this time period (http://books.google.com/books?id=SSMFAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA122&dq=dietzler+petzval&hl=en&sa=X&ei=8mgoUs_1JaO7sQTPnoHYAQ&ved=0CC4Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=dietzler%20petzval&f=false)

You can learn lots more by searching google and "petzval dietzler"

Dan

bracan
5-Sep-2013, 04:49
Thank you Dan,
I searched a lot but there is some minor information about lenses, mainly Dietzler biography.
Im curious which format cover this lens?
Measured from glass to glass about 11cm, with flange 15cm and glass diameter about 8cm.
Thanks again.
Braca

goamules
5-Sep-2013, 07:29
You own the lens, and you're asking us what the coverage is? I doubt anyone else has one!

Tip: go into dark room that has one window. Hold lens up facing the window to wall, piece of paper, or ground glass. Measure coverage.

bracan
5-Sep-2013, 07:34
You own the lens, and you're asking us what the coverage is? I doubt anyone else has one!

Tip: go into dark room that has one window. Hold lens up to piece of paper or ground glass. Measure coverage.

Yes, I know. But lens will arrive tommorow in my hands.

Steven Tribe
5-Sep-2013, 08:52
Looks very much like a convertion to WHS. This is Cabinet size.

Voigtländer cannot have been too pleased about how similar the engraving was to his. They have a good reputation. There are quite a few small Petzval makers in Vienna at this time.

bracan
7-Sep-2013, 06:51
This lens is too big for dedicated format.....or the back lenses is in not proper order.....I get focus on 6cm and diameter of front lens is 7cm?!?
Ultra fast petzval indeed.

bracan
7-Sep-2013, 07:29
Correction after right arrange of back lenses, get focus on 10cm which goes to lunatic maximum aperture of f1,4???

goamules
7-Sep-2013, 19:21
Remeasure, you're doing it wrong or some glass is missing. Your lens if it has all the glass is F3.6 to F4.0. How do I know? Experience and just looking at it.

Steven Tribe
8-Sep-2013, 01:29
Suggest you measure the focal lengths of the front achromat and rear air separated pair, separately. This will probably show which end you should be looking at more closely.

bracan
8-Sep-2013, 10:54
Remeasure, you're doing it wrong or some glass is missing. Your lens if it has all the glass is F3.6 to F4.0. How do I know? Experience and just looking at it.

All glass is here. I found on the net, that Mr. Dietzler made some f2 kind of Petzval. Will take photos of disassembled lens to put here and resolve a mistery:)

CCHarrison
8-Sep-2013, 11:30
hmmm... something in the water today.... an f/2 Petzval from Dietzler....?

Steven Tribe
8-Sep-2013, 13:39
If Dallmeyer could get under F1.9 and (reputed also) down to F1, then nothing is impossible, although it's photographic use is somewhat restricted.

goamules
8-Sep-2013, 13:59
I hear you Dan. I just bought an "air lens", made of the lightest unobtanium aluminum, it actually floats! Makes it real easy to mount, you just tie a string around it, and tie the other end to the front standard. It floats perfectly in front of the lensboard hole!

bracan
9-Sep-2013, 06:57
Very funny...
Ok, here is disassemled Dietzler lens. All glasses plus some unknown to me brass part on front glasses.
Front group:
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bracan
9-Sep-2013, 06:58
Barrel:
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bracan
9-Sep-2013, 06:59
Rear group:
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bracan
9-Sep-2013, 07:00
Whole lens:
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goamules
9-Sep-2013, 07:22
[QUOTE=bracan;1063678]Very funny...
Ok, here is disassemled Dietzler lens. All glasses plus some unknown to me brass part on front glasses.
Front group:

That's an internal stop. Makes the lens slower, not faster. To get the true speed, we need:

What's the focal length again, from the slot to the wall with an image formed? I'm guessing the focal length is about 18 CM?
With the lens assembled, measure the apparent circle of light in the front glass. The size of the glass itself is not what you measure.

From your pictures, I'm guessing the aperture will be about 5 CM measured correctly. Divide the first number by the second.

bracan
9-Sep-2013, 07:55
From the waterhouse slot to focus is aprox 15cm.
I can remove internal stop. Does that mean faster lens?

Louis Pacilla
9-Sep-2013, 08:17
I can remove internal stop. Does that mean faster lens?

Probably not. You would need to remove the central stop as well.

pasiasty
9-Sep-2013, 08:24
How to measure focal length of a lens:
1. focus on infinity, and measure distance between standards (any point on the front standard to any point the rear one)a
2. repeat focusing on a ruler (or something slightly shorter then your ground glass) and moving your camera to get sharp image in exact 1:1 scale; measure distance between standards (same points, of course)
3.difference between the measurements is sought focal length.

Steven Tribe
9-Sep-2013, 09:56
Dietzel was obviously looking at French constructions at this time, rather than his conservative enemy, Voigtländer. The split barrel - and the use of the front achromat as a landscape lens - looks a lot like Darlot etc.

Correction: replace Darlot with Jamin, as I think this was made in the Jamin era! The WHS was either added later or was an late change in the design before sale as the slot/engraving/focussing mount design is clumsy.

Steven Tribe
17-Feb-2014, 13:09
Just in case the OP didn't discover it - a complete look-alike Dietzler was sold on eb*y this evening for £998.

I have looked at the Dietzlers on photohistory.at and it looks like the design of the WHS cut-outs are the same on all of them, with the very restricting internal baffle/stop support.

bracan
17-Feb-2014, 16:26
Steven, what is the number of that sale? Cant find...
Thanks


Just in case the OP didn't discover it - a complete look-alike Dietzler was sold on eb*y this evening for £998.

I have looked at the Dietzlers on photohistory.at and it looks like the design of the WHS cut-outs are the same on all of them, with the very restricting internal baffle/stop support.

Steven Tribe
18-Feb-2014, 02:05
Here it is - 390766102648.

I think this represents a growing interest in non-Voigtländer vienna Petzvals. At least there don't appear to be fake lenses around!
Note that the ebay one has a 3 figure serial number and yet it has WHS. Perhaps a workshop in Vienna specialised in making the WHS conversion?

bracan
20-Feb-2014, 03:03
Thanks Steven.

Steven Tribe
20-Feb-2014, 04:19
I think we will just have to accept that some of the Vienna makers made Petzvals that were a good deal faster then Voigtländer's at the same time!

Not only are the eb*y and your Petzval around F2, but I have an almost identical one from Waibl (slightly earlier) which is also under F2.5. I enclose the "prospectus" of the one I have. At this time, cameras, with a selected objective, were sold as a complete package and not advertised separately. This come from Photohistory.at.