Size of 3.5x4.5 Speed Graphic FP Shutter?

[fecaleagle]

The local camera shop just had a load of Speed Graphics dropped on them. I am thinking of buying one of the 3.25x4.25 Speeders and using the FP shutter for barrel lenses on my 5x7 Ansco as someone here recently did with that beautiful 8x10 KMV. Anyway, I've got the ~5.2"x5.2" lens boards, and I was thinking about taking out the FP shutter, and putting it in a box behind the lens board (and attaching the bellows to the back of the shutter box), but knowing the dimensions of that FP shutter would really help before I get in too deep.

This may be better-suited for the DIY section, but I would really just like to know the height and width of a 3.25x4.25 Speed Graphic focal plane shutter, sans Speed Graphic.

Thanks,
William

Edit: 3.25x4.25, wish I could edit the title...

[Jim Noel]

The camera body is an integral part of the shutter. All of the mechanism is attached to it. Therefore, I don't see how you can make it do as you wish.

[Michael Cienfuegos]

The camera body is an integral part of the shutter. All of the mechanism is attached to it. Therefore, I don't see how you can make it do as you wish.

Agreed. Just was looking at my Pre-Anny 3x4, he will have to take out the bellows and other parts in front before fooling with the remainder for a shutter. Someone took a 2x3 Speed and used it as a shutter in front of the lens. That might be easier. Check the DIY section of this forum.


m

[Jim C.]

Check graflex.org, there's been a few discussions there on FPS's.

[fecaleagle]

The camera body is an integral part of the shutter. All of the mechanism is attached to it. Therefore, I don't see how you can make it do as you wish.


Agreed. Just was looking at my Pre-Anny 3x4, he will have to take out the bellows and other parts in front before fooling with the remainder for a shutter. Someone took a 2x3 Speed and used it as a shutter in front of the lens. That might be easier. Check the DIY section of this forum.

I have disassembled, performed service on, and re-assembled a 4x5 Speed Graphic FP shutter in the past. Provided that the rollers and plate are mounted correctly in a wooden frame, I can't see why it wouldn't work. Aren't we at large format photography forum always saying that a camera is just a box anyway, or is that somewhere else?

It is the same idea as using it in front of the lens, I was just planning on transporting the shutter assembly to a lower-profile box that sits behind the lens board. Thinking of a cheaper, faster, Packard, but instead of the tubing running through the lens board or bellows, I would be attaching the bellows to the back of the shutter box and mounting the box to the back of the front standard.


Check graflex.org, there's been a few discussions there on FPS's.

Jim, I will check over at Graflex.org and ask a question if I can remember my username/password.

Thanks for the responses so far,
William

[fecaleagle]

I'm sure it can be done, but I suppose I will have to pony up the cash for this little Graphic before I can know for sure whether it will all fit. As you seem to suggest it will be very difficult to transport the FP shutter, I should mention that I am not opposed to cutting away half the body of the Speed Graphic. They have 5 of them, and I've got my eye on one with torn-up bellows and a crisp FP shutter. In my town, it's likely going to end up as a decorative piece anyway if I don't buy it. As much as I don't like destroying any piece of photographic equipment, I think St. Ansel will not banish me to hell for taking pictures with (part of) the thing, as opposed to putting it on a bookshelf.

-William

[jp]

The problem with mounting a box behind the lensboard with speed graphic parts is that you'd have to disassemble the big camera to wind the shutter. My 4x5 speed graphic is ahead of the standard for this reason, but you'd have to have a heavy standard to support that front loading of lens and shutter.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAjyYixKXm8

[fecaleagle]

Thanks for the video, I will check it out after work, as I haven't seen it before. As mentioned above, I was planning on mounting my bellows on the back of the shutter box and then attaching the box to the back of the front standard. That way, I'll have access to the winding knob and it will arguably help balance the weight load on the front standard.

[jp]

Thanks for the video, I will check it out after work, as I haven't seen it before. As mentioned above, I was planning on mounting my bellows on the back of the shutter box and then attaching the box to the back of the front standard. That way, I'll have access to the winding knob and it will arguably help balance the weight load on the front standard.

Sounds like a good plan. I'm not willing to disconnect the bellows on my camera; it's easier on some cameras.

[Kimberly Anderson]

I'm half way through doing what you are planning on doing. Other stuff has gotten in the way, but I know you can make it work. Go for it!

[fecaleagle]

Thanks guys. I will post the dimensions of the FP shutter after I buy it. I will also get the dimensions of the 4x5 Anniversary Graphic's FP shutter when I get around to it.

Mods, feel free to move this to DIY. It's definitely gone from a request for camera information to a DIY thread quickly.

Thanks,
William

[Vincent Pidone]

You might just look for the focal plane shutter assembly that Graflex made as an accessory to go on the back of their studio cameras. They are not as common as a Speed Graphic, but it has everything you need without any of the stuff you don't.

Folmer & Schwing also made them (I've seen an 8x10 one) but I suspect that those qualify as uncommon.

[Jim C.]

Those Graflex and Folmer FPS assemblies mount on the rear standard, William wants to front mount the FPS.
Another option for front mounting, come to think of it, is a Thornton Pickard FPS, most of those are front mounted
and those show up more on the Bay than the Graflex / Folmer FPS's, whether those will be big enough to
accommodate the lens he wants to use is a crap shoot.

[Tracy Storer]

just measured mine, the "gate" when the shutter is open is basically 3 1/16" x 4 1/16". The rear box is 5 13/16" wide and 6 1/2" tall.

[fecaleagle]

Thank you Tracy! I did end up buying it, but I have been lazy and hadn't taken the measurements. I sort of lost my enthusiasm when I saw that the "gate" was only ~3 inches tall. My lens' rear diameter is about 3.25", so my plans were temporarily dashed. I am still plotting to remount it in a box and expand the "gate" slightly, because the opening in the curtain on "O" is closer to 3.5" inches, which would be sufficiently large for me. It's only the metal gate that limits the opening's height so much.

We'll see, but I appreciate you posting that info for me!

[jp]

That's close enough, 1/4" shy is only 1/8" on each side off. It will still work fine.

[Tracy Storer]

I'm with jp498, 3 1/16" only misses 3.25" by 3/16" divided by two if you center it on the lens and you're only clipping 3/32" on each of two sides. If you align that with the narrow dimension on the film, you will most likely be golden.

[fecaleagle]

You are all making me very happy right about now. I am determined to mount the thing behind the front standard for the aesthetic and the weight distribution. It does make sense that as long as the narrow dimension of the opening matches the narrow dimension of the film, I should have nothing to worry about, but I shoot a lot with the back in portrait orientation. I haven't taken any measurements, but I believe I can file the frame out in the middle of the opening so that the gate measures at least 3.25" in all directions without requiring any movement of the rollers. I promise I will let you know when it happens, but I am planning a trip to the hardware store this weekend, so it won't be before then.

-William

[fecaleagle]

What are the caveats against turning the focal plane shutter sideways? I seem to recall it not being recommended sonewhere, but if there are no compelling reasons not to turn it, I don't mind turning it on its side before shooting in portrait orientation. I've devised a bellows quick release using tiny turn buttons, so if the FP shutter will hold time reasonably well on its side, I can just turn it as required.

I can definitely understand if it screws with the speeds at lower tension settings, but I can't imagine it affecting the performance much on settings 4-6...

[Dan Fromm]

Fecal, Speed Graphics have a tripod socket on the left side, under the strap. The clip at the lower end of the strap is made to be easily detached from the lower bracket so that the camera can be shot in portrait orientation. On its side. Of course they run well that way.

What do you mean by bellows quick release? For all practical purposes Graphics' bellows are permanently attached.

[fecaleagle]

Dan, thanks for the reply. I am attempting to mount a focal plane shutter from a Speed Graphic onto the front standard of a 5x7 Ansco View. Essentially, I want to make a shutter box that attaches to the back of my front standard. The bellows "quick release" is so that I can swap between attaching the bellows to the front standard and the shutter box. Unlike a Packard, I will need to attach the bellows to the back of the shutter box.