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Racer X 69
1-Sep-2013, 17:34
This lens is available for $250:

Schneider 65mm f8 Super Angulon Lens

It has a Syncro Compur shutter.

Is this a reasonable price, and would this make a decent wide angle lens for a 4x5 camera?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Racer.

Ari
1-Sep-2013, 18:05
I think it's a good price if the shutter is in good shape and the glass looks good.
It's very wide, so don't expect a ton of movements on 4x5, maybe 10mm of rise.
Modern versions from Fuji or Nikon are in the $300-$500 range.

lenser
1-Sep-2013, 18:14
Give or take, it is about the same angle of view as an 18mm on a 35mm camera so a very wide lens. Wonderful for some landscape and architectural interior uses, but not too bright at only f8. Still, as Ari says, if the shutter is working and accurate, a very good price. I used one many years ago and found it to be quite sharp and easy to use as long as I didn't need any extreme movements.

Racer X 69
1-Sep-2013, 18:26
Modern versions from Fuji or Nikon are in the $300-$500 range.

So it is an older lens?

Alan Gales
1-Sep-2013, 18:28
If it's in nice shape the price sounds reasonable.

At f8 it can be a bit hard to focus and like said earlier it just covers 4x5 with not much room for movements. Being an ultra wide you may not need a lot of wiggle room.

I bought a monorail with 3 lenses once that had a 65mm. It was too wide for me (I like a 90mm) so I sold it. If you like ultra wides a 65mm is nice.

Racer X 69
1-Sep-2013, 18:29
. . . . . but not too bright at only f8.

Yes, f8 does seem a bit slow, but so far my observation is that LF lenses tend to run on the slow side, especially the shorter focal lengths.

Alan Gales
1-Sep-2013, 18:35
Ken Rockwell has one with a chrome barrel from 1967. I don't know how long Schneider made these lenses. Schneider also makes an f/5.6 version.

Alan Gales
1-Sep-2013, 18:36
Correction: Schneider made an f/5.6 version.

Fotoguy20d
1-Sep-2013, 18:37
An important consideration is whether the shutter is a Compur 0 or 00.

Racer X 69
1-Sep-2013, 18:39
Ken Rockwell has one with a chrome barrel from 1967. I don't know how long Schneider made these lenses. Schneider also makes an f/5.6 version.

So it is unlikely that these lenses would have the optical coatings that the newer lenses would have?

Bill_1856
1-Sep-2013, 18:45
SOME of those Compur shutters require a special attachment to hold the shutter blades open for focusing. It is WORTHLESS without that little item.

Alan Gales
1-Sep-2013, 18:51
So it is unlikely that these lenses would have the optical coatings that the newer lenses would have?

If it's from the 1960's then it is probably single coated. I own a later Schneider Symmar-S and it is marked multicoated.

Like I said earlier, Ken Rockwell owned one. He took his award winning photo with it. I own single coated lenses. As long as you properly shade them they are as sharp as a multicoated lens.

Racer X 69
1-Sep-2013, 18:57
SOME of those Compur shutters require a special attachment to hold the shutter blades open for focusing. It is WORTHLESS without that little item.

Thank you for this detail. Something that a n00b like myself might search for and never find without help from experienced guys like you!

Dan Fromm
1-Sep-2013, 19:01
Per Schneider (see https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/super-angulon/data/8-65mm.html) it covers 155 mm, so is better suited to 6x9 than 4x5. It was offered only in a Compur #00 shutter. These shutters don't have "T" speed or a blade arrester (press focus), so it will have to be focused set to "B" and with a locking cable release. You could reshutter it in a Prontor Press #00, which has a "T" speed, but that will put the price up a bit.

The f/5.6er (see https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/large_format_lenses/super-angulon/data/5.6-65mm.html) covers 170 mm, is better suited to 4x5.

KEH has 65ers that cover 4x5 at prices ranging from a little under $400 to around $500.

Chuck Pere
2-Sep-2013, 08:02
Does that shutter have a cable release socket? I know my 65 Angulon (not Super) does not have a socket. You need to mount an extra piece (not sure of its correct technical name) on the lensboard that has threads to receive a cable release. That piece is mounted so that when pushed the end of the cable release contacts the shutter activation lever and fires the shutter.

IanG
2-Sep-2013, 08:14
I have a 65mm f8 Super Angulon in a Compur #00, the shutter's small an has no T or preview so to focus you have to set to B and use a locking shutter release, It's been a useful lens and just coversb 5x4 but with no room for movements and for colour work you'd need the centre filter to compensate for light fall off at the corners and edges.

The coatings on mine are OK, it doesn't flare but might need some colour cirrection filtration for Colour E^ work. I have a slightly more modern 75mm f8 Super angulon which I use for 6x17 work and if I find another at a good price I'd add that to my 5x4 kit in preferance to my 65mm.

Ian

Racer X 69
2-Sep-2013, 18:31
As much as I would like a wider angle lens to compliment the medium focal length one that was included with the Cambo SC I picked up recently, I decided to pass on this one. It surely sounds like it was reasonably priced, but I think that it may be better to hold out for a newer one with more modern multiple coatings, and a bit better shutter. From what I have read so far the lens is one of the more significant pieces in the LF array of equipment.

Ari, Tim, Alan, Fotoguy, Bill, Dan, Chuck and Ian, I would like to thank you all for your friendly and helpful comments. As a n00b to LF I have been reading and learning, but so many questions go unanswered, and by sharing your knowledge and experience when guys like me stumble in and ask it helps to bridge the gap.

It is people like you who make a community like this great.

So here is a big thumbs up for you guys!

http://i64.photobucket.com/albums/h194/racerx6948/Forum%20How%20To/thumbs_up.jpg

Jim Andrada
2-Sep-2013, 20:35
Compur shutters are quite good - it isn't an issue of "goodness" as much as an issue of what you need/want for the intended use. For myself I think using a locking cable release is no big deal. That said you might be happier with a 75mm or a 90mm

Racer X 69
3-Sep-2013, 05:54
That said you might be happier with a 75mm or a 90mm

I am still looking. So far, I have gotten a feel for the various focal lengths and how they compare to the smaller format that I familiar with. Given the strengths and weaknesses of large format, I doubt that I would be interested in anything longer than a "normal" focal length lens, I can't really see using something akin to a telephoto lens with an LF camera. But I do feel one in the shorter and more wide angle range would suit my desires for picture making.

It would be nice if a guy could try out a couple different lenses on the wider end of the scale before committing. Knowing that the lens will fit with the standards closed up, and that there will still be usable movements would surely help in making the decision to purchase a lens of a given focal length.

Who knows, I may just wind up with a 75 or a 90.

Dan Fromm
3-Sep-2013, 06:35
It would be nice if a guy could try out a couple different lenses on the wider end of the scale before committing.

Racer, I don't know where you live. In some (all?) major metropolitan areas lenses can be rented.

Someone here may lend you a lens or two.

Finally, if you buy carefully -- at the low, not the high, end of the range -- you should be able to buy lenses, try them out, and resell them for minimal losses. You might even make a little money. Many of us here have done that.

KEH has a very generous return policy. Taking advantage of it to try gear out seems wrong, but people have done just that. Buy, try, return.


Knowing that the lens will fit with the standards closed up, and that there will still be usable movements would surely help in making the decision to purchase a lens of a given focal length.

I don't know which camera you have. If it has fixed bellows, you're cooked. If it has interchangeable bellows, a bag bellows may be the answer. If it comes to that, DIY bag bellows aren't that expensive or hard to make and factory-made sometimes turn up at low prices on the great auction site. Its a long story, but I made a stepped (one end fits a 2x3 standard, the other fits a 4x5) bag bellows early this year. Bellows frames for my camera system are hard to find so I sacrificed a pair of lens boards. They were the most expensive parts.

Alan Gales
3-Sep-2013, 10:34
Dan is giving you great advice about trying out a lens if you can. There is probably someone on the forum who lives reasonably close to you that would be glad to help.

I loved my 25mm lens on my Contax 35mm camera so I purchased a 75mm for my 4x5 camera. It felt too wide for me so I sold it and bought a 90mm which feels just right. Also what you use on a large format camera may be different than on a smaller format camera. My 25mm and my 100mm were my most used lenses on my 35mm camera. I tend to favor more "normal" focal lengths for 4x5 and 8x10.

It all comes down to what works for you.

IanG
6-Sep-2013, 13:38
Dan & Alan make some good points. I can see where Alan's coming from but I already had a 90mm before getting a 65mm, and the 65mm has been a godsend for a few importnat images but I use it sparingly, and carefully.

In my case at the time I bought my 65mm I was using a 17mm on a 35mm camera quite regularly and loved the 21mm Leitz lens I borrowed for my M3. I never expected to use my 65mm that much and in over 25 years I haven't but it has produced some key images that I couldn't have shot with a longer FL lens. A very useful lens but my 90mm lenses get used far more.

Ian

Racer X 69
7-Sep-2013, 06:54
Racer, I don't know where you live. In some (all?) major metropolitan areas lenses can be rented.

Seattle is the closest large city to my home in the Cascade Foothills, about a 2 hour drive.


Someone here may lend you a lens or two.

That would be nice.


Finally, if you buy carefully -- at the low, not the high, end of the range -- you should be able to buy lenses, try them out, and resell them for minimal losses. You might even make a little money. Many of us here have done that.

I don't know why, and never have been able to figure it out, but whenever I buy something it seems that I rarely am able to sell it. In all my days I have sold only about 10% of whatever I have bought. One would think that by that statement my place must be quite an accumulation of stuff, but I have actually recycled lots of used up items.


KEH has a very generous return policy. Taking advantage of it to try gear out seems wrong, but people have done just that. Buy, try, return.

I've been looking there too, thanks for the tip!


I don't know which camera you have. If it has fixed bellows, you're cooked. If it has interchangeable bellows, a bag bellows may be the answer. If it comes to that, DIY bag bellows aren't that expensive or hard to make and factory-made sometimes turn up at low prices on the great auction site. Its a long story, but I made a stepped (one end fits a 2x3 standard, the other fits a 4x5) bag bellows early this year. Bellows frames for my camera system are hard to find so I sacrificed a pair of lens boards. They were the most expensive parts.

At first I was looking at a couple of different Graphlex Graphic View II cameras, but then I found a Cambo SC for sale. I went to check it out, and bought it. It came with a Caltar f5.6 210 mm lens in a Copal (I forget which one) shutter. It also has a bag bellows, an extra lens board, a bunch of film holders, cable release, spanner tools for the lens, dark cloth, a changing bag for changing film in the field, 2 Polaroid backs (mostly useless), some outdated Polaroid film, everything needed to contact print from the negatives (save for chemicals) and the original case.

The seller also included a large notebook he created that has exposure and development data for all the different film that he used. Sample shots, charts and graphs he developed while processing photos, etc. That itself is an invaluable tool to help with making pictures.

$300!

A person would be hard pressed to find just the lens for that price.

I found a Beseler 4x5 enlarger for $50, complete, save for the color correction stuff to do color.

And then I picked up a decent, but not fantastic, aluminum tripod that is suitable for the size and weight of the camera for $100.

So far I am off to a decent start in LF picture making for a fairly low investment. I need a light meter and a focusing loupe yet, but it is coming together.