Today's Underpriced Acquisition

[Kimberly Anderson]

So allow me a few moments to gloat. :)

I saw a Pentax Spot V advertised for sale locally and picked it up this morning. While I was there we struck up a conversation and asked the seller if he had any more of his grandfather's camera equipment. Apparently he was in the Army and was also a Marine. He described an old camera with some 'bellows-y' looking thing on it. I said I'd like to see it. He ran in and I expected him to come out with a Speed Graphic. He came out with a Linhof Master Tecnika III with a beautiful Xenotar 135 f/3.5. The camera was ROUGH and I immediately looked at the lens. It was dirty but looked like it would clean up OK. I told him the whole package was probably worth about $75 (which was a wild-assed-guess). He asked me if I'd give him $75. I offered him $50 and he agreed. I ran to the ATM, returned and gave him $60. The original price of the Spot V was $100. It is MINT.

All in all I'd say I did pretty good today. :)

100929

[AtlantaTerry]

Hey, he was happy and you were happy. Sounds like it was a good deal all around.

BTW, if memory serves me correctly, the meter used mercury-based batteries. If true, they are hard to find or you can have the meter reset to use today's batteries.

[EdSawyer]

It would have been better if you didn't lie to him about the value. The camera and lens are easily worth 10x your estimate.



So allow me a few moments to gloat. :)

I saw a Pentax Spot V advertised for sale locally and picked it up this morning. While I was there we struck up a conversation and asked the seller if he had any more of his grandfather's camera equipment. Apparently he was in the Army and was also a Marine. He described an old camera with some 'bellows-y' looking thing on it. I said I'd like to see it. He ran in and I expected him to come out with a Speed Graphic. He came out with a Linhof Master Tecnika III with a beautiful Xenotar 135 f/3.5. The camera was ROUGH and I immediately looked at the lens. It was dirty but looked like it would clean up OK. I told him the whole package was probably worth about $75 (which was a wild-assed-guess). He asked me if I'd give him $75. I offered him $50 and he agreed. I ran to the ATM, returned and gave him $60. The original price of the Spot V was $100. It is MINT.

All in all I'd say I did pretty good today. :)

100929

[Jon Shiu]

Hi, the V uses 3 common SR44, or Eveready 357 silver oxide button cells, available at any drugstore.

Jon

Hey, he was happy and you were happy. Sounds like it was a good deal all around.

BTW, if memory serves me correctly, the meter used mercury-based batteries. If true, they are hard to find or you can have the meter reset to use today's batteries.

[Eric Rose]

I agree with Ed. Ignorance on the sellers part was exploited by someone he perceived as a subject expert. Not cool. A guy in a camera store tried the same thing on my uncle when he took his Leica in there looking to trade it in on something easier to use (he was in his late 70's).

[Kimberly Anderson]

I like how Eric and Ed think that I'm the bad guy. The neighborhood that I had to drive through to get this equipment was one of the worst in the valley. I honestly thought about turning around and going home. The young man and his two friends looked like trouble and fortunately they met me on the street and I stayed in my car. He was thrilled to sell the equipment and admitted to himself that the stuff has just been sitting around collecting dust. I was the first to call, and the first to purchase. I inquired about other equipment he might have had and he obliged. I looked at the camera, gave it a quick glance, had no idea if the bellows are light-tight, no idea if the shutter speeds were accurate or if the glass was any good. There is heavy salt-corrosion all over the camera. It is an ugly thing. Having been around cameras and seen things that I thought were worth a fortune be worth nothing, and knowing really nothing of Linhof, I felt that I took a risk, rolled the dice a little and we were both happy.

Now you guys may think that I took advantage of him, that is fine. It doesn't matter to me what you think of the situation. Thank you though for allowing me to fill in a few of the pieces. It may or may not change your opinion. Again, it doesn't matter to me.

Have a great day. :)

[Steven Tribe]

Might be worthwhile checking the serial number against the list of stolen Linhofs?
Circumstances, as you describe them, suggest sculduggery!

[Kimberly Anderson]

Where is said list? I would like to check that.

[Eric Rose]

Your title indicated that you knowingly paid less than it was worth. Maybe it was a poor choice of words.

[Kimberly Anderson]

I knew I underpaid what it was worth. How much I underpaid, I had no idea. How much others think I underpaid is their personal opinion.

Wow...I may have to delete this thread...except if I do everyone will think I'm a bigger jackass than they already do. ;) I would agree, probably a poor choice of words. What has been said, has been said.

[Brian Ellis]

FYI - There's no such camera as a "Linhof Master Technika III."

[Kimberly Anderson]

I think this is the camera I have. The nomenclature still is confusing to me.

Linhof Super Technika Model III

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Linhof-Super-Technika-Model-III-v-5-4x5-Field-Camera-and-Lensboard-w-35mm-Hole-/161094498812?pt=Film_Cameras&hash=item2581faf9fc

[TXFZ1]

I think it is also sad you are now bragging about it on the forum.

David

[Steven Tribe]

Unless Bob has a list - there is no national list. It would be another contribution from Bob if he started one!

Post the serial number and a lot of people will check.

I can't really see how this equipment ended up where it did. Linhof owners and their relatives know about "Linhofs".

[Rick Rycroft]

I don't get how some are basically saying Michael took advantage of someone who willingly sold this stuff to him. Yes, it seems he may have paid under market value. Haven't we all gotten deals on purchases at some time or another? I'm not sure most of us outside this transaction can judge Michael too harshly.

[Jody_S]

Personally, when it happens to me (not often enough, but it does), I simply agree to the price asked. I do not tell people what it's worth or what I would have paid. But if someone is selling a $1K camera for $100, I don't try to haggle them down to $50. However, I depend on people bringing me stuff and trusting my appraisals, so if word ever got out that I did that to someone, my business would suffer.

[Taija71A]

>> So allow me a few moments to gloat. :)

>> ... Worth about $75 (which was a wild-assed-guess)...
>> ... And knowing really nothing of Linhof...

____

Hey Michael (AKA 'Salt Nerd')! :D

'Wild-assed-guess'...

Sure... I bet!
(*You definitely sound like a 'Smart-A**' to me!)...

If you know *** REALLY *** 'Nothing' about Linhof's... How do you know that you did "Pretty Good" today??? Like they say... 'Just Asking'! :)

Michael, are you going to tell us 'next'...
That you 'know really nothing' about Xenotar's -- Also?
--
Agreed in full 110% with Ed!

IMNSHO... Definitely *NOT* the 'feel-good' story of the week!
Enough said... :(
--
Best,

-Tim.
_____


“A session of boasting won't attract any real friends...
It will set you up on a pedestal however... Making you a clearer target.”

~~ Richelle E. Goodrich ~~
________

[Ari]

Seller and buyer both walked away happy, the feel-good story of the week.
If I had no use for the gear, I'd flip it, too. :)

[pierre506]

Linhof III's lens board size is different from IV, V, MASTER, 2000 and 3000.

[jeroldharter]

It is a free market.

[Brian Ellis]

Linhof III's lens board size is different from IV, V, MASTER, 2000 and 3000.

As is almost everything else about the IIIs and the later versions. As I learned the hard way, even things that look identical on the outside aren't necessarily identical on the inside.

[tautatis]

I am not sure why we are not happy on Mr. Slade "score/find". A great "score/find" are terms that have been used on this forum on many occassions. I am sure, if any of us was in Mr. Slade's position we would have had the same, if not similar excitement of the "underpriced acquisition". Trade is never fair, however, if the two trading partners seem satisfied, then the camera was fairly acquired :-)

[BrianShaw]

I'm happy for him, and skeptical of the potentially dubious method at the same time. For me this story emphasizes the improtance of doing sufficient homework to establish value/price versus asking a single random expert who may have vested interests. But in the end... I'm betting that those guys who sold the gear probably skipped away heppily thinking they were the ones coming out ahead on the deal.

[DrTang]

I make them tell me a price - that way they are happy and I didn't trick them into anything

if they ask the value... I try to be reasonably fair with the valuation .. one can't tell if problems are hidden in it and I usually assume the worst.... and then I'll again ask what his price is and either buy it or tell him what I would pay ..which might be way less than my valuation - but it is then up to them to decide


I've been to garage sales and see some guy bargaining down some widow on a rollieflex or leica from the 50 she was asking to 25 or 20

and I think: come on dude..pay the 50.. it's way worth it and you know it and make a widow happy

[BrianShaw]

I'd be very happy to pay a widow $50 for a Rollei. I have never met such a widow, however.

[Alan Gales]

I've been to garage sales and see some guy bargaining down some widow on a rollieflex or leica from the 50 she was asking to 25 or 20

and I think: come on dude..pay the 50.. it's way worth it and you know it and make a widow happy

I used to go to garage/yard sales and estate sales on a weekly basis when my daughter was small. I would buy like new clothes and toys for next to nothing. I was always on the look out for camera gear but all I found was Polaroids, Kodak Brownies, and cheap plastic Time/Life Magazine 35mm cameras. :D

[Taija71A]

I make them tell me a price - that way they are happy and I didn't trick them into anything.

If they ask the value... I try to be reasonably fair with the valuation .. one can't tell if problems are hidden in it and I usually assume the worst.... and then I'll again ask what his price is and either buy it or tell him what I would pay ..which might be way less than my valuation - but it is then up to them to decide.

I've been to garage sales and see some guy bargaining down some widow on a rollieflex or leica from the 50 she was asking to 25 or 20 and I think: come on dude..pay the 50.. it's way worth it and you know it and make a widow happy...

____

I think that this is an Excellent 'reply' to this Thread! :)



... But all I found was Polaroids, Kodak Brownies, and cheap plastic Time/Life Magazine 35mm cameras. :D
____

And to think that I once thought... That it was 'Only' the Garage Sales in my Neighbourhood -- That were like that! LOL. :D
Best,

-Tim.
________

[Roger Cole]

Personally, when it happens to me (not often enough, but it does), I simply agree to the price asked. I do not tell people what it's worth or what I would have paid. But if someone is selling a $1K camera for $100, I don't try to haggle them down to $50. However, I depend on people bringing me stuff and trusting my appraisals, so if word ever got out that I did that to someone, my business would suffer.

Me either, but I WILL tell them it's worth ten times what they are asking and, if I want it and am willing to pay that, will make them a lower but not insulting offer - like in your case, say, "It's probably worth $1000 if you find the right buyer but I can't do that. I'd like to have it and will give you $750" or whatever.

I'm not sure this camera is worth ten times the "appraisal" though. I bought a Tech III with three good clean lenses on boards, a shoulder bag, and some miscelaneous hoods and such back in the 90s for, IIRC, $450 or so. It's undoubtedly worth less now. And mine wasn't coated over though it didn't have the rangefinder.

I am pretty sure it was worth more than $75 though.

[IanG]

I am not sure why we are not happy on Mr. Slade "score/find". A great "score/find" are terms that have been used on this forum on many occassions. I am sure, if any of us was in Mr. Slade's position we would have had the same, if not similar excitement of the "underpriced acquisition". Trade is never fair, however, if the two trading partners seem satisfied, then the camera was fairly acquired :-)

I can fully understand why mny feel the OP should have paid more, but he's been honest here with his expanation, so I agree with your comments.

Ian

[IanG]

I'd be very happy to pay a widow $50 for a Rollei. I have never met such a widow, however.

Just bought a fully functional Rollei(cord) for less than that off a dealer :D needs new leather but I have quite a few meters . . . . . . . . . .

Ian

[EdSawyer]

Average going rate on a 135 xenotar on ebay is $600-800, so I would say consdering that, 10x the estimate is conservative, if anything.





I'm not sure this camera is worth ten times the "appraisal" though. I bought a Tech III with three good clean lenses on boards, a shoulder bag, and some miscelaneous hoods and such back in the 90s for, IIRC, $450 or so. It's undoubtedly worth less now. And mine wasn't coated over though it didn't have the rangefinder.

I am pretty sure it was worth more than $75 though.

[Roger Cole]

Ouch. Yeah I didn't know that lens. I'm with you on this one. But I've said much the same before, like in the "steals" thread - I don't steal things even metaphorically but I sleep well.

[Kimberly Anderson]

Yeah, this could end about now.

Peace, out.

[BrianShaw]

I haven't heard an obese person of the female gender vocalize harmoniously yet. :o

[goamules]

Ha! If you think about it, on a macro scale, and historically through the ages, all sales involve selling something for more than you have in it. The farmer grows a crop hoping the demand will be higher than his seed and time and work. The computer manufacturer charges more than the cost to build. The painter charges hundreds of times more than the cost of paint and the time to work. Etc, etc. Trades have always been exactly the same. In the medieval barter system, a man would trade his excess apples for a leather coat. And the wheeling and dealing, slight overstatements in quality, slight forgetfulness in mentioning a fault were part of it. Each went away happy. The farmer rushed to market his grain, when he discovered a shipload of cheaper grain was coming into port. Everything varied and depended....on everything else. And still does.

Today, we trade green pieces of paper. But I doubt anyone here picks up a bargain at a antique store, walks to the counter, and says, "This old lamp is priced $3, but I think it's a Tiffany. I want to pay you $400 for it...."

I'm a member of another forum, where people collect old equipment typically worth less than $50. EVERY post, every day, is gloating about "Today's haul" or "Picked this up for $5". They post pictures of TRUCKLOADS of these items that they get at garage sales and boldly state what they paid. Most then fill their garages with these things, that the sellers didn't want and were likely to throw away. Later, their widows will resell them cheap, or expensive, or whatever they feel like attempting!

As you move up the scale to more expensive items, you're supposed to keep quiet. No one says "I paid only $20,000 for this 63 Corvette worth $30,000!" Or "I bought two ponds full of Carp for ten dollars, before the boom in gourmet Carp fish restaurants!" The Antiques Roadshow divines out what people paid for gold watches, rare vases, Chippendale furniture....but normally people don't gloat about it. Yet, we all do it.

So....this is how humans have always done things. We're not perfect, we're not some glowing utopian aliens who just want to help humanity.

[BrianShaw]

You are right, Garrett... offering $400 for something a presumably knowledgable seller priced at $3 would be foolish. Everyone seeks a bargain when they are buying. Human nature, as you say. But I think most of the discussion has been more focused on the response to the question, "What is this worth?" from an unknowledgable seller. Many people seem to feel that there is a difference between answering, "I don't know; I'm not sure, but will you take $50 for it?" and "It's worth $75, but will you take $50 for it?" The chance of closing the deal probably is about the same with both responses (but not "It's worth $600 but will you take $50). :)

In the end, the seller seemed happy... as did the buyer. It was a mutually-agreeable deal. So nobody should be criticizing the ethics of the buyer too much, especially since the damaged camera might really be fairy worthless. Who knows for sure?

[jp]

Just to stir the pot and make it more confusing. A school I am involved with has an annual lawn sale for a fund raiser where kids/teachers/board bring in lawn sale junk.

Out of sheer volunteer laziness, we stopped labeling prices on items and told people to pay whatever they felt like and we don't haggle. Income went up noticeably as a result, and it's how we roll now at every lawn sale.

People routinely sell stuff too cheap to be certain they can get rid of it. People also mistakenly price things too high when they want to get rid of it. Buyers have flexibility in what they are willing to pay.

[DrTang]

there is a difference...or maybe there isn't...but I think there is

between saying - 'I don't know' (even if u do)... and saying: 'the whole package is probably worth about $75' when you know it's worth more

the best option most of the time is to just play stupid, and let the seller lead

[BrianShaw]

Out of sheer volunteer laziness, we stopped labeling prices on items and told people to pay whatever they felt like and we don't haggle. Income went up noticeably as a result, and it's how we roll now at every lawn sale.


I've heard that before... well, I read it on the internet. It is good to now hear this first-hand. We'll have to do that for our fund raisers!