Heliar or what?

[bracan]

Hello guys,
Another score. Unknown Heliar to me. No seral number, no any other numbers. Diameter of lens is 7cm and height is 10cm.
Some ideas?
100881100882100883

[Paul Fitzgerald]

F/6.5, brass barrel, iris at center = Collinear III
cell spacing and iris placement all wrong for heliar, won't work.
remove the rear cell and compare to front cell, heliar will have very different sizes
nice looking lens

[bracan]

Thanks Paul, tommorow will check again.

[bracan]

Im still confused...on same barrel is f6,5 and Heliar insignia....

[Sevo]

The inscription looks clumsily handmade, so it won't be Voigtländer official. By the time the Heliar was introduced they had been one of the major industrial players for decades, and had long been using engraving machines - and on my 1907 Heliar they already used a grotesque "machine" typeface quite similar to the one Leitz used on their lenses. So that engraving certainly is apocryphal - whether right or wrong on one or both accounts (of type and speed) is a different question...

[bracan]

Maybe is some Voigtlander inhouse ptototype?

[Sevo]

Maybe is some Voigtlander inhouse ptototype?

The Heliar was still 50 years in the future when such a hand engraving would have been used.

[bracan]

Yep, youre right.

[Eric Rose]

Well that must be one heliar of a lens ;)

[bracan]

Ok guys, fake or not?

[Steven Tribe]

Fake.

[bracan]

Yay.
Anyway must try on film:)

[Sevo]

Hard to tell, the cell rim would fit a Voigtländer, but also other German lenses. It might be a Heliar assembled into another barrel with not enough aperture and a coarsely remade, but essentially truthful engraving by the repairman at the best, or any undesirable lens faked into a Heliar at the worst. The truth probably is somewhere in between.

[bracan]

Measured, it is about 34cm and f6,2.
Somebody played well with many lenses to build this Frankenlens.
100915100916

[bracan]

Somebody put Collinear in fake Heliar body, like Paul said.

[Louis Pacilla]

Measured, it is about 34cm and f6,2.
Somebody played well with many lenses to build this Frankenlens.
100915100916

This does not look like a Collinear. It looks more like a Ariostigmat or another double Gauss design. A Collinear will have each cell consisting of three elements glued w/ no air space . Yours seems to be air spaced. Unless I'm missing something?

[Jim Graves]

An Unar?

Can you describe the 4 elements?

[bracan]

Two of four elements have double glass for sure. Maybe even other two, but cant figure.