Installing Beattie screen on my Phillips 4x5

[Kirk Gittings]

I bought my 4x5 Phillips from Micheal Mutmansky many years ago. So I don't know how it was originally set up. Which installation method would be correct for my Phillips, method 1 or 2? I just set it up as per #1 but don't know if that is correct. There are some tape "shims" in place.
http://www.orafol.com/tl_files/EnergyUSA/documents/INSTALLATION_GUIDE_FORVIEW_CAMERAS.pdf

Does anyone have current contact info for Dick?
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[Kirk Gittings]

bump

[Oren Grad]

For the 4x5 Dick offered both a back of his own manufacture which he fitted with a plain GG, and also an adapted Horseman back which IIRC came with a Fresnel. Which do you have?

(...assuming, of course, that Michael didn't do anything with the glass.)

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks Oren, The back doesn't say anything but I always thought it was a Horseman, a Graflock international style.

[ic-racer]

Horseman 4x5 field camera back is designed to have the fresnel in between the lens and the ground glass.

Some pictures of a Horseman field camera back in this thread; does it look like that?: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?86549-Horseman-FA-Back-Repair

If you do have a Horseman back, I'd fix it up with the original Horseman fresnel (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/22836-REG/Horseman_23892_4x5_Fresnel_Screen.html) and GG (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Horseman-4x5-Stock-Ground-Glass-23891-mint-/370820405926?pt=US_Viewfinders_Eyecups&hash=item56569e5aa6&ssPageName=RSS:B:SHOP:US:101) and save yourself a potential focusing nightmare.

[Kirk Gittings]

Ok so prior to adding this Beattie I used a simple Satin Snow GG, frosted on one side-frosted side toward lens. I checked the depth of it vs. film in a holder with a depth gauge and it was fine. I shot tons of film that way and they were sharp.

So.....forget about the cover sheet it is irrelevant. Given the above. Why would I not put the frosted side of the Beattie fresnel on the inside as that is what you focus on-not the fresnel-as I know that depth is fine?

[Sal Santamaura]

You apparently have a Phillips-adapted Horseman back. Therefore, the original shims stay in place, you install your Beattie with its fresnel side facing the lens, then place the cover glass between the screen and your eyes.

In case you still want to discuss this with Dick, contact him by phone at 512-943-9192 or email via rhjb2phil at yahoo dot com. Note that he frequently travels, so phone or email messsages might not be answered for a while.

In my opinion, it's unfortunate you got the Beattie screen. I bought one many years ago for a Wista VX and found it very "grainy" with a very narrow viewing angle, even when using a normal focal length (150mm) lens. Subsequently I tried a Maxwell Hi-Lux 4.7, which was so superior I've added them to all my 4x5s and 5x7.

The only really positive thing I can say about Beattie is that their AR-coated cover glass makes for easy viewing, even without a focusing cloth when f/5.6 lenses are used. All my Maxwell screens have Beattie cover glasses over them. :D

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks Sal. I like the beattie-used them before.

Could you answer my question above? I don't understand this.

[Sal Santamaura]

Ok so prior to adding this Beattie I used a simple Satin Snow GG, frosted on one side-frosted side toward lens. I checked the depth of it vs. film in a holder with a depth gauge and it was fine. I shot tons of film that way and they were sharp.

So.....forget about the cover sheet it is irrelevant. Given the above. Why would I not put the frosted side of the Beattie fresnel on the inside as that is what you focus on-not the fresnel-as I know that depth is fine?In post #1 you describe some tape "shims" that you found in the Horseman frame. The factory configuration, which included a Horseman fresnel facing the lens, had stiff cardboard shims to account for how the fresnel in that orientation shifts the focal plane. Over time, someone may have modified your camera for the Satin Snow glass, selecting the tape thickness to achieve what you confirmed by measurement, namely placing the ground surface exactly 0.190" away from the seating surface just like film emulsion is supposed to be.

As far as I can tell, you would see no difference in results whether you proceed as you propose, i.e. a "Type 1" Beattie installation with the mat screen side toward the lens (retaining the tape shims currently in place), or try to find/obtain and reinstall the original Horseman shims and instead place your Beattie with its fresnel side toward the lens. The first option is clearly easier. I'd try that and reconfirm your sharpness on film. Then all that will be left is to buy a Maxwell screen. :D:D

[Sal Santamaura]

Thanks Sal. I like the beattie-used them before.

Could you answer my question above? I don't understand this.We're playing leapfrog. My first post was made before seeing your second question. Hopefully my second post answered it.

If you like the Beattie, great. If you haven't tried a Maxwell, I'd encourage finding someone who has one and checking it out.

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks. It didn't come to me with the satin snow but it did come with the shims. Likely that MM added them, but I don't remember what it came to me with or why I added the SS.

[Kirk Gittings]

for the archives on this subject. Dick says:


I believe method #1 is correct for the Fresnel screen, such that the incoming image is received on the matte surface first. I tested this out years ago and found that there is a refractive change in the plastic of the screen. I don't recall placing any shims on the ground glass frame ledge, but perhaps this was done if method #2 was used. In any case it might be best to test your set-up by photographing a yardstick number at a wide aperture with a normal lens. I usually did this by placing the yardstick about six feet away oriented fore-aft to the lens and at a slight angle upward so that the numbers can show up. Focus critically on a given number (I used 18), expose and develop to see if it is dead on.

[vinny]

the ideal object to focus/shoot is a focus chart which changes appearance if not in focus, rather than just being "soft".https://www.google.com/search?q=fuji+focus+chart&client=firefox-a&hs=UmI&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=1x0aUvCzDcbq2gXWnoH4Cg&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1018&bih=591#fp=633e4ade33ba97d5&q=fujinon+focus+chart&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&tbm=isch&facrc=_&imgdii=_&imgrc=cAtwMbvzH4mlQM%3A%3BQcq2CHAOeJ_-UM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.markertek.com%252FTools-Test-Equipment%252FproductImage%252F125X125%252FAC-BF.JPG%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.markertek.com%252FTools-Test-Equipment%252FVideo-Test-Charts.xhtml%3B125%3B125

[Sal Santamaura]

for the archives on this subject. Dick says:Kirk, the answer you got from Dick reads like he was assuming you asked about the bail-equipped spring back of his own manufacture.

When purchasing my brand new 4x5 from Dick, I ordered and received both his spring back and the adapted Horseman version you own. I wanted the Horseman's graflok capability to be ready when inexpensive, full-frame, instantaneous 4x5 digital capture devices "soon" hit the market, which would undoubtedly fit under those locking sliders. :) A dozen years later, that's still a fantasy.

In any case, Dick delivered the adapted Horseman back, attached to his removable rear plate, in exactly the form it was received from Japan. I know this because I also have a Horseman FA camera, which uses the identical back, including shims, fresnel, cover glass, etc. Dick would not have "placed any shims on the ground glass frame ledge" of the Horseman ground glass frame because he didn't modify or even disassemble it in any way.

Although the general advice you've received here and from Dick is sound, if you are intent on a "final answer" from the man himself, I suggest a follow up question that stresses you've got the Horseman back he adapted, not his bail-equipped spring back.

[Kirk Gittings]

Good point. Thanks.

[Kirk Gittings]

So far its working great. I am out in the field now at the Petrified Forest. I tested it for accuracy before I left and it was bang on with the existing tape shims and method #1.

I have tried the Beattie screen before and while I understand why people don't like them because of the graininess, I don't find that a real hinderance to focusing, even with a 90, and the bright screen is like butter to my aging eyes.