View Full Version : Standard 300mm f5.6 and standard 360 mm lenses on 4x5 camera.

rami rimon
10-Aug-2013, 04:45
I use a horseman 450 with expandable rail (700mm).
Does anyone know if 700 mm rail will be enogh for those lenses?
This lenses are an 8x10 lenses that i am thinking to use on my camera.
I also have a larger bellows.
Does anyone know how much bellow extantion i would need if i will use them?

Ed Bray
10-Aug-2013, 05:45
It will depend somewhat on the design of the lens and the focusing distance you want to use it at.

Typically the bellows extension will need to be approximately the same as the focal length when focused at infinity. If you are planning on using them closer then you will require more bellows extension. Your 700mm should be good to focus the 300 at just above 1:1 magnification and the 360mm will focus just short of 1:1.

Marko Trebusak
10-Aug-2013, 05:54
For infinity work 300mm lens needs 300 mm of bellows (few milimeters more or less) and 360mm lens needs 360mm of bellows. So both of this focal leinght lenses would work on your Horseman. Portraits are different matter. When you focus closer, the lens to ground glass distance increases till you reach the macro proportion of 1:1 (the size of object you are photographing is the same size as object itself), when you'll need 600 mm of bellows for 300mm lens and 720mm of bellows for 360mm lens. This is for normal designs like Schneider Symmar S 360 or Rodenstock APO Ronar 300. For telephoto designs one needs less bellows that is the nominal focal leinght of the lens.


It looks like Ed was typyng the same time as me, but was faster on keyboard

David Lobato
10-Aug-2013, 06:13
The lenses you referred to are in Copal 3 shutters and may possibly not fit on a Horseman 450 lensboard. And these lenses are large and heavy. There are lenses with smaller apertures in Copal 1 shutters that would fit.

Ed Bray
10-Aug-2013, 06:34
Copal 3 shutters easily fit on a Sinar/Horseman sized board (140mm square), the Horseman Standards are also well capable of holding a 300mm f5.6 Symmar S or Apo Symmar, they are much sturdier (also heavier) than many other comparable 4x5 Monorail Cameras.

rami rimon
10-Aug-2013, 08:48
Thank you for your anawer.
so far i use nikon 90 f8 with wide angle bell,nikon 150 f5.6 with wide angle bellow and for close up i replace to standard bellows,and nikon 210 f5.6 with standard bellows.
As much that i unserstand the 300 5.6 srandard lens would work fine also for portraits.
I wonder if the 360 would work with the same rail.
There is a 1000 mm rail for that camera-i wonder if i will need it for the 360 standart lens.

Ed Bray
10-Aug-2013, 09:11
The 360mm will be perfectly fine for portraits with a maximum of 700mm bellows, you will probably find that for a head and shoulder portrait on 4x5 you will only be using about 500mm of bellows. You must remember to add the bellows factor though, for a 360mm lens (approx 14") at circa 500mm (circa 20") which is about 1 stop to be added.

Tin Can
10-Aug-2013, 10:25
You may run out of length with standard 4x5 bellows and need to add a center frame to use 2 sets of below. If you need more than the 700mm rail, get another rail and tripod mount and mount the 2 rails on what have you. A 2x4, or a piece of aluminum, and Horseman made such a piece that is impossible to find, but it's just a flat piece of aluminum with 3 holes about 12" long.

Also do not forget that Sinar bellows and lensboards also fit.

As someone else said, Horsemen are very strong and will handle anything you can fit on a lensboard.

I have the same lenses and camera.

rami rimon
10-Aug-2013, 13:30
I have a 700mm extra long bellow and expandable rail....
It is easy to find parts for horseman,you can buy sinar bellows original and non original all over the world.
Check b&h
Robert white

Very easy to find.
I prefer horseman than sinar or toyo.
Sinar is too delicated,and toyo is too slow to use(has more buttons).

Have a nice day
Rami Rimon