Ebony 45S questions, need expert help

[raffaelecapasso]

Hi guys,

first of all i apologize for not writing a lot on here but I do read a extensively. I know this has been widely discussed, but you know, this time I take it more personal as I'm the one who's going to spend money :)
I shoot mainly full-figured portrait and landscape, things i like by the streets, some still life. You can get a better idea at this link: http://raffaelecapasso.com/personal/view-finder

I'm trading my Shen Hao TZ45II-B to upgrade to a Ebony 4x5. I've been shooting a lot with my Shen Hao and now I'm ready for the upgrade.

I realized that a non-folding camera would be much better for me , as i really hate to fold, unfold, attach lens etc...i end up leaving the camera opened inside the trunk most of the time, as I have only a 150mm lens which i find pefect for my needs. Choices are narrowed to the Ebony 45S, which has been largely praised here.

As it is a very big investment for me, I'm trying to make the right decision. I can't justify the extra money for the 45SU and it's asymmetric movements as long the heavier weight, i shoot in a very simple way, almost as a normal camera, always keeping the back straight, no strange movements or so.

Finally here are my two questions

1) Perhaps in the future I may need to buy more lenses, wide angle for sure, needed for indoor pictures, and there'll be no problem with it i guess.
The problem comes with longer lenses, which i definitely hate....but who knows. The bellow is only 270mm long this means the longest lens i can use is a 240mm or so... my only concern is about still life of small objects like a glass on a table or a hand, a very close head shot or so... do you think I can cope with a 150mm or a 240mm or a 300mm with the 35mm extension tubes Ebony sells? (no i don't want to carry the bulky Ebony back extension for these random shots!!).

2) What i didn't get from the information found online, is if the 45S will be able to rise or drop the bed to shoot low subjects or high buildings keeping the standards parallel..when rise movements are not enough. I understand it has no base tilts...but will it work the same way with axis movements?

That's it... hope you guys will solve my doubts and thank you very much for any help or feedback provided.

Best to all of you from Italy,

Raffaele

[drew.saunders]

I have the 45SU, which I picked up in 2008, and I've been very pleased with it.

If you look at Ebony's convenient lens table: http://www.ebonycamera.com/articles/lenses.html
You'll see how much bellows draw you'll need for any given lens at infinity. When you're near the limit of your bellows, you'll appreciate a few extra mm. A 200 or 210mm lens might be a better choice for you than a 240, mainly because a 240/5.6 lens requires a #3 shutter, so it's a large lens. The Fuji 250/6.3 is smaller, and the Fuji 240/9 is smaller still, and there are other small 240mm lenses, such as the G-claron.

A compact 200/8 Nikkor-M requires 194mm of bellows draw at infinity, which works out the same as having a "free" 6mm top hat. For that lens, the minimum focusing distance for the 45S would be 1/(1/200 - 1/276) or 726mm minimum focus, which isn't too bad. Add a 35mm "top hat" to that lens and you have 1/(1/200 - 1/311) or 560mm minimum distance, and that might be enough. Not knowing which 150 you have, treating it as needing exactly 150mm of draw, you get 1(1/150 - 1/270) for 337mm minimum focusing distance, so that might be all the lens you need for close-up table top work.

As far as tilting the camera base on a tripod and then tilting the standards to get more rise/fall, it works, and the bubble levels on both standards help, but it's not very precise, so I've only tried it a couple of times.

[Drew Wiley]

You can get an extension back from them for somewhat longer lens applications .... but there goes more $$.

[Lachlan 717]

Why not get the Shen Hao XPO (http://www.shen-hao.com/PRODUCTSabout.aspx?i=949&id=n3) (non-folding) and put the SIGNIFICANT savings into the other lenses that you mentioned? 360mm extension on the standard model; up to 420mm if you special order one with longer bellow.

You'll also have the option of using a Sinar shutter with barrel lenses, should you choose to use these lenses for portrait work somewhere down the track.

[raffaelecapasso]

Thank you guys for the quick answers!!

@Drew! I have a Rodenstock Sironar N 150 MC... flange 142mm, how do you calculate the closer focus distance? If so it might be good enough without adding a longer lens!
Don't you think that a 200mm would be a double of my 150? I don't think it will change a lot...For the the base tilt, glad to hear! Isn't it imprecise with folding cameras as well?

@Drew Wiley, It's not worth to carry that bulky back for the occasional use of longer lenses!!

@Lachian, I thought about it...but i just wanted to upgrade to a "definitive" camera...to keep it and have something very well crafted which will not loose much value during the years. Also shen hao is heavier and very much bigger when folded!

also as i like to travel light, do you guys think that getting it in mahogany instead of ebony will be a good choice?

Thank you!

[George Hart]

Raffaele, I have the 45S and I'm just as happy with it as when I first bought it. It will handle your 150 mm lens superbly. Wide-angle lenses are fine too, though my 55 mm lens is mounted on a recessed panel (I use mainly roll film with this camera). I don't do much macro but I can get 1:1 using a 120 mm Nikkor-AM lens no problem. I use a 300 mm lens on an Ebony top-hat panel and I can get it focussed at 7 feet or so. For head and shoulder portraits I use a 180 mm lens, or else the Fuji 240 A, again without difficulty.

It is not possible to drop the bed using this sort of camera, but there is more rise/fall than with the equivalent folding camera, and I have never reached the limits of these movements on the 45S. Of course no camera can handle all situations perfectly, and the strengths of the 45S are its ease and speed of use, portability and stability in the field. If you do a lot of macro work I would go for an Arca monorail. Hope this helps.

George

[raffaelecapasso]

Thank you George! That pretty much answers my questions. Only one left though :) Do you think is worth to get it in mahogany?

[George Hart]

Do you think is worth to get it in mahogany?

Sorry I didn't answer that one. My simple answer would be to stick to ebony wood. I have never handled a 45S in mahogany so I can only imagine how it feels, but it may not be as stable or as solid a platform. My 45S weighs 2.2 kg (Ebony say 2.1 kg) and they give the mahogany version as 1.75 kg, so it's quite a lot lighter. This may be fine with short and medium lenses but at full extension the standards begin to sag ever so slightly. When locked the standards are firm and steady, but on a windy hillside with a 240 or 300 mm lens you can sometimes appreciate the benefit of all the weight that you have carried up!

Essentially it depends on how much you really need to save the extra weight. If you are not sure it may be worth emailing Hiromi at Ebony. They used to have an English-speaking rep (may still do!) who responds quickly and is very helpful.

[raffaelecapasso]

Yes i agree on the weight, indeed my shen hao weights just the same.

May I come back on the rise and drop bed? I can't see why it is not possible, i made a very rough drawing...it seems pretty achievable to me, am i wrong?

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[George Hart]

Yes you could certainly do this using centre tilts. But my point was that you may hardly ever need to use such tricks with a non-folder. Because the standards don't have to fold down they can be made taller than on folding cameras, and for most purposes this allows sufficient movements with the base of the camera parallel to the ground. Some of my lenses are in panels with a hole in the centre rather than Linhof-style, slightly lower than centre, and this gives a little more rise capability. I for one have never had to tilt the camera base on the 45S. If after getting it you find you need to, then I'd be interested to know what you are attempting to photograph!

[arthur berger]

I have a mahogony 45S which I bought used ony because it came along before an ebony one and the lighter weight sounded appealing.I use it with 65mm up to a 300mm telephoto. I can use a regular 240mm with no problem, but any longer lens needs to be either a telephoto design or use an extender box on the lensboard. I must say I love the camera and have used many different 4x5's.

[drew.saunders]

Thank you guys for the quick answers!!

@Drew! I have a Rodenstock Sironar N 150 MC... flange 142mm, how do you calculate the closer focus distance? If so it might be good enough without adding a longer lens!
Don't you think that a 200mm would be a double of my 150? I don't think it will change a lot...For the the base tilt, glad to hear! Isn't it imprecise with folding cameras as well?


1/focal length - 1/extension = 1/minimum distance

But, when the flange distance is different than the focal length, you adjust the extension accordingly, so your 150mm lens with 142mm flange distance lets you add 8mm to your maximum extension calculation, so:

1/150 - 1/278 = 1/325.8mm. That's very close.

I have a 165mm Zeiss Tessar and the 200mm Nikkor-M and I generally carry both, and don't find that they're too close in focal length for me. If I want to save weight, I leave the Zeiss out, as it's an f/3.5.

[raffaelecapasso]

I for one have never had to tilt the camera base on the 45S. If after getting it you find you need to, then I'd be interested to know what you are attempting to photograph!

I agree with you...it happens very rarely...but, to me, view cameras are only made to keep the vertical lines straight...i've never used the back tilt other than for this purpose...sometimes i use this method to shoot low subject that i want to keep vertical leaving the view from the top. So if didn't have this possibility I'd rather go for a fixed back standard.


1/focal length - 1/extension = 1/minimum distance

But, when the flange distance is different than the focal length, you adjust the extension accordingly, so your 150mm lens with 142mm flange distance lets you add 8mm to your maximum extension calculation, so:

1/150 - 1/278 = 1/325.8mm. That's very close.

I have a 165mm Zeiss Tessar and the 200mm Nikkor-M and I generally carry both, and don't find that they're too close in focal length for me. If I want to save weight, I leave the Zeiss out, as it's an f/3.5.

Thank you...all makes sense now. I understand my 150 would be very good for the close up shots i need.


I have a mahogony 45S which I bought used ony because it came along before an ebony one and the lighter weight sounded appealing.

Uhm....it really appeals to me as well. May i ask you what kind of tripod and head you use? I have a Manfrotto 055XCPRO3 with a 410 geared head.