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LuisR
31-Jul-2013, 08:07
Does anyone have an idea what a fair price (don't say whatever the market will bear as this does not contribute anything to the discussion) for this lens in fair, good, and excellent grades?

ramon
31-Jul-2013, 10:09
Does anyone have an idea what a fair price (don't say whatever the market will bear as this does not contribute anything to the discussion) for this lens in fair, good, and excellent grades?

If you have one for sale I think fair price is ...., hum .... $450. Half its original price is quite fair :-)

PS: (edit), I want to buy one.

vinny
31-Jul-2013, 10:17
there's one on ebay right now with a starting bid of $1250.
I wouldn't pay half that.

Drew Wiley
31-Jul-2013, 10:18
Ha ... good luck fishing around for a price like that ... More likely, you're going to pay MORE than what these cost new. They're unique, very practical, out of production, and are going to be something of a cult lens.

LuisR
31-Jul-2013, 10:22
there's one on ebay right now with a starting bid of $1250.
I wouldn't pay half that.

I asked because I am searching for this lens. I saw the posting on Ebay. Quite pricey but it appears to be in almost new condition. Given that its a rare lens half of that price does not strike me as entirely unreasonable. That is the first one I have seen on Ebay in a long time.

LuisR
31-Jul-2013, 10:24
Ha ... good luck fishing around for a price like that ... More likely, you're going to pay MORE than what these cost new. They're unique, very practical, out of production, and are going to be something of a cult lens.

That is the last lens I need to round out my kit. Thankfully I was able to find a Fujinon A 240/9 Black Copal several months ago.

Alan Gales
31-Jul-2013, 10:27
It would be hard to say. I haven't seen that many for sale on Ebay for comparison. You would have to look at ones that actually sold.

EdSawyer
31-Jul-2013, 10:33
Generally they seem to sell for $500-900, from the ones I have tracked. It's rarely seen in anything other than great condition. Most people keep them pretty nice, I've not seen a beat up one.

ramon
31-Jul-2013, 10:35
They're unique, very practical, out of production, and are going to be something of a cult lens.

It's true, I agree.

Vinny, that lens is the first one in several months. Last bid for one of this (not sure if I've deleted any recent mail) was on 26 oct 2011 ($936 USD). So, I am sure there will be someone who pays that price.

LuisR, I think there cannot be discussion about fair price. There is no fair price for this kind of lens, just market price.

But If you have one for sale, PLEASE BE FAIR :-)

Kevin Crisp
31-Jul-2013, 10:40
I agree with Drew. Unless our pursuits are defeated by the lack of light sensitive materials, this lens is special and is going to command a premium price for a long, long time. Lots of coverage, very sharp, small shutter, etc.

LuisR
31-Jul-2013, 10:41
It's true, I agree.

Vinny, that lens is the first one in several months. Last bid for one of this (not sure if I've deleted any recent mail) was on 26 oct 2011 ($936 USD). So, I am sure there will be someone who pays that price.

LuisR, I think there cannot be discussion about fair price. There is no fair price for this kind of lens, just market price.

But If you have one for sale, PLEASE BE FAIR :-)

If I had one I would not be selling it, just like I would not consider selling my Fuji A 240/9 for any amount of money (well, "any amount of money" that anyone would be willing to pay).

Drew Wiley
31-Jul-2013, 10:46
Just depends on how patient you are. Auctions are actually a bit predictable, and I've seen price spikes and fluctuations in "rare" cult lenses like Dagors and Fuji A's etc. Somebody will happen to pay an absolutely outlandish price, so that incites people to put their own comparable lenses on the market.... one or two more will
sell at a high price and temporarily satisfy demand, and then unexpectedly, a couple more will show up and just sit there, and they'll accept a bargain offering. No
difference with rare prints by famous photographers or anything else behaving as an auction commodity. It takes either luck or timing. But these Fuji C's, esp the
two longer ones, aren't like a garden-variety plasmat where there's a glut of them around. Their combination of light weight, huge coverage, and superb optical performance is going to keep them in demand, esp with field photographers.

TGR Laguna
31-Jul-2013, 12:16
I agree with Drew in that the auction prices cycle over a period of time. There was a recent period when the 240 A was not to be found, then all at once there are five of them listed at the same time. Same with the 450 C. The last to sell on ebay was on July 1 out of Japan for $1280 (plus shipping); however, I have seen them go for around $900. I've also found all the offerings to be in excellent+ shape. If you are waiting for a price half of $1250, all I can say is "good luck." I do not believe the prices will be going down; so, it's either exert patience or pay the freight for instant gratification.. -- Ted

Jim Galli
31-Jul-2013, 12:44
It's a silver bullet man. The more you talk about it, the higher the price goes. Had both, happy with my Nikkor, although the Fuji was a lot of fun! 450mm APO Skopar f9! Killer lens. I use the Skopar on 8X10 and the Nikkor on ULF. Sorry, didn't add. I think $450 is fair.

Drew Wiley
31-Jul-2013, 13:17
"Fair" and realistic are two different things, Jim.... Would YOU sell one for half the going rate????????????????

Jim Galli
31-Jul-2013, 13:31
"Fair" and realistic are two different things, Jim.... Would YOU sell one for half the going rate????????????????

Just kidding :D:D It was a silly question in the first place. What the market will bear is actually the right answer and the fellow didn't want to hear that . . . so as my momma used to always tell me, "ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer."

Peter De Smidt
31-Jul-2013, 16:13
The most recent new price was over double what they were a few years ago. The 300mm is up to $1400 new: https://www.badgergraphic.com/store/cart.php?m=product_list&c=28. The last new 450 sold from Badger a few weeks ago. I don't remember the price, but it was at least a couple of hundred higher.

Drew Wiley
31-Jul-2013, 16:29
It's not just lenses.... a strong Yen versus the dollar, and dramatically increased energy prices in Japan ... all factors in a tipping point. So they decide to drop their LF lenses, and that tips the balance for those who have these lenses on their wish list .... maybe sinks it! By contrast, Fuji general-purpose plasmats are abundant and cheap used, and damn good too. One just never knows.... a year ago, Nikkor 300 M's (another portable desirable lens) became scarce and pricey soon after discontinuance, but now there's a glut of them. A rarer compact cult lens, the Fuji 360 A was almost impossible to find even if you waited a decade (I managed to bag two of them), but then a dozen turned up for sale in a single year. I wanted a mint Kern 14 inch Dagor too, and simply waited until there was some odd coincidence of the stars and several turned up at once, and I actually got the pick of the litter fairly cheap - then the next year people wanted three grand apiece for the things! I'm personally getting too old to wait for every LF wish-list lens I ever coveted - If I don't really use it, I don't need it. I'm not a lens
collector per se! But that 450C gets used every week, it seems. No regrets buying that one!

Diane Maher
31-Jul-2013, 19:15
I'm glad I came across this thread! I am surprised at the Fuji 300 C price! I was looking into selling mine and the prices I was given by some of the places that buy used gear aren't worth it! Maybe I should put my list of lenses on this site instead.

LuisR
31-Jul-2013, 21:12
It's not just lenses.... a strong Yen versus the dollar, and dramatically increased energy prices in Japan ... all factors in a tipping point. So they decide to drop their LF lenses, and that tips the balance for those who have these lenses on their wish list .... maybe sinks it! By contrast, Fuji general-purpose plasmats are abundant and cheap used, and damn good too. One just never knows.... a year ago, Nikkor 300 M's (another portable desirable lens) became scarce and pricey soon after discontinuance, but now there's a glut of them. A rarer compact cult lens, the Fuji 360 A was almost impossible to find even if you waited a decade (I managed to bag two of them), but then a dozen turned up for sale in a single year. I wanted a mint Kern 14 inch Dagor too, and simply waited until there was some odd coincidence of the stars and several turned up at once, and I actually got the pick of the litter fairly cheap - then the next year people wanted three grand apiece for the things! I'm personally getting too old to wait for every LF wish-list lens I ever coveted - If I don't really use it, I don't need it. I'm not a lens
collector per se! But that 450C gets used every week, it seems. No regrets buying that one!

Seems that the Fujinons have developed that dreaded photographic disease: "too valuable to use syndrome". Just like my Summicron 35/2 that I purchased new 30 years ago for 370 (tax included) and is now worth 2500 and thus I rarely use.

Jim Cole
1-Aug-2013, 05:29
Seems that the Fujinons have developed that dreaded photographic disease: "too valuable to use syndrome". Just like my Summicron 35/2 that I purchased new 30 years ago for 370 (tax included) and is now worth 2500 and thus I rarely use.

I can't imagine owning a lens and not using it, unless you're a collector and not a photographer. You only paid $370 for it, why not use it? It was made to make images, not sit on a shelf.

LuisR
1-Aug-2013, 06:00
I can't imagine owning a lens and not using it, unless you're a collector and not a photographer. You only paid $370 for it, why not use it? It was made to make images, not sit on a shelf.

Because if it were damaged in some manner during use, I could not afford to replace it.

Chuck Bradford
1-Aug-2013, 06:04
I purchsed one on ebay last year in Nov 2012 for $799, it was in like new condition it is an awesome lens, I use it on my Chamonix all the time.

Steve Goldstein
1-Aug-2013, 06:39
Because if it were damaged in some manner during use, I could not afford to replace it.

It doesn't do you any good if you're afraid to use it. Why not sell it, buy yourself an f/2 or f/2.8 35mm Zeiss-Ikon, or Voigtlander, or even a Konica M-Hexanon if you can find one, and pocket the extra cash? Then you wouldn't have to worry, and would have enough money to replace the replacement should it be damaged.

LuisR
1-Aug-2013, 10:50
It doesn't do you any good if you're afraid to use it. Why not sell it, buy yourself an f/2 or f/2.8 35mm Zeiss-Ikon, or Voigtlander, or even a Konica M-Hexanon if you can find one, and pocket the extra cash? Then you wouldn't have to worry, and would have enough money to replace the replacement should it be damaged.

One of the important tenets of Leitz ownership is that you never sell what you buy, because if you do, you are guaranteed to regret it at a later date. I am sure there are gems of LF about which the same can be said.

LuisR
1-Aug-2013, 10:51
I purchsed one on ebay last year in Nov 2012 for $799, it was in like new condition it is an awesome lens, I use it on my Chamonix all the time.

Your post brings hope to my quest. Will be on the lookout. Thanks.

Steve Goldstein
1-Aug-2013, 11:14
One of the important tenets of Leitz ownership is that you never sell what you buy, because if you do, you are guaranteed to regret it at a later date. I am sure there are gems of LF about which the same can be said.

Point taken.

Greg Y
1-Aug-2013, 11:16
.....the lens was not discontinued at that time. Scarcity & desirability increase the price :)
In the 300mm options there are many 12" Dagor/ 12" Commercial Ektar/305 G Claron/Nikkor M/.....
The 450C is in a very short list of small/sharp lenses in that focal length. Although I don't use mine very much;when I need it nothing else fills the bill.

James Pierce
3-Aug-2013, 01:15
Having had one, and watched the market for a long time ... around $1000 USD for a 'mint' lens... A few hundred less for one that's been used. As others have said, they are almost universally in excellent condition. It is hugely smaller and lighter than the Nikkor 450mm.

Kodachrome25
3-Aug-2013, 01:42
One of the important tenets of Leitz ownership is that you never sell what you buy, because if you do, you are guaranteed to regret it at a later date. I am sure there are gems of LF about which the same can be said.

What collector fed you that line of BS?

I shot Leica professionally from 2006-2011 on a book project, I brassed the snot out of a brand new black paint MP3 kit with it's matching 50 Asph and then sold all of it at the end of the book project because I no longer needed that much overpriced gear laying around unused. I did keep one chrome M3 and a version-2 50 Summilux though. It has been banged, fell on concrete when the strap caught something and it still look and works great.

That tenent is from the collector mindset, not a real photographer...but then very few real photographers use Leica anymore.

If it were me, I would sell that Leica-liability and put the money towards a 450C and some film, things it would seem you are actually interested in using...

StoneNYC
3-Aug-2013, 03:02
Can someone tell me why this lens is so amazing and valuable? Please forgive my ignorance about fancy LF lenses...

Same question with the 300mm mentioned? Again, why 3+ times the price of others.

karl french
3-Aug-2013, 06:42
Small, sharp with big usable image circles. Nothing combines these features are well as the Fuji 450C does. The Nikon M 300 is the same size as the Fuji 300C but the Fuji makes a bigger usable image circle.

StoneNYC
3-Aug-2013, 11:10
Small, sharp with big usable image circles. Nothing combines these features are well as the Fuji 450C does. The Nikon M 300 is the same size as the Fuji 300C but the Fuji makes a bigger usable image circle.

So it's about being small and having a large image circle (so you can do more movements you would otherwise have light falloff with other lenses??) and sharpness added in? Ok. Thanks. I thought with LF sharpness wasn't AS important because if the large surface area, and that even old lenses from 100 years ago could be just fine to use (this is what other LF guys tool me when I was looking into buying lenses). Just learning... I probably sound like a fool lol

ROL
3-Aug-2013, 11:47
The last new 450 sold from Badger a few weeks ago. I don't remember the price, but it was at least a couple of hundred higher.

Indeed, 6/7/2013. I felt the whoosh of the guillotine coming down, and the all but certain promise of pangs of regret got the better of me. I could no longer put off my first new lens purchase in 10 years. I bought it (gulp).

karl french
4-Aug-2013, 10:33
It's a great lens. You won't regret it. I've been really enjoying mine on both 4x5 and 8x10 for 12 years now.

LuisR
8-Aug-2013, 06:46
Lens did not sell on ebay at would have been a total price of close to 1300. Obviously, a price that the market will not bear. Its back at the same price. I suppose the seller is waiting for a well-heeled photographer to pay the asking price.

Drew Wiley
8-Aug-2013, 08:15
I started out with German lenses, then after they were well used, sold them at a profit when the German mark was high, and bought Fuji lenses when the yen was
low. It's getting harder to play that game because so many lenses have been discontinued. But it seems that if you just follow the inevitable pro retirements or switching to smaller digi gear, that waves of nice beachcombing treasures unexpectedly turn up from time to time. But just how long are you willing to wait? And
just how bad do you need a particular lens? ... tough one in this case, since the 450C is fairly unique in terms of portability for this focal length.

LuisR
8-Aug-2013, 18:15
I started out with German lenses, then after they were well used, sold them at a profit when the German mark was high, and bought Fuji lenses when the yen was
low. It's getting harder to play that game because so many lenses have been discontinued. But it seems that if you just follow the inevitable pro retirements or switching to smaller digi gear, that waves of nice beachcombing treasures unexpectedly turn up from time to time. But just how long are you willing to wait? And
just how bad do you need a particular lens? ... tough one in this case, since the 450C is fairly unique in terms of portability for this focal length.

I find it hard to believe that back when film photography enjoyed a healthy market neither Rodenstock nor Schneider saw the demand from field photographers to manufacture lenses suitable for carrying. Fuji and Nikon did, several of them in various focal lengths. I really would be interested in an explanation for this. Perhaps there was more demand from large format studio photogs where weight is not an issue and they concentrated on this market. Seems to me that large format field photography was actively pursued so there would have been an incentive for other manufacturers to produce the kind of high quality compact lenses that Fuji and Nikon did produce.

Robert Langham
8-Aug-2013, 19:34
I have a 450 F9 Nikkor that I have been very happy with. Use it on 5X7.

99927

LuisR
8-Aug-2013, 20:21
I have a 450 F9 Nikkor that I have been very happy with. Use it on 5X7.

99927

I am sure that is as good a lens as the 300 F9 Nikkor M I have. However, the 450 uses a heavier Copal 3 shutter. My camera is a Canham DLC 4x5 and I do not believe the #3 shutter will fit in its small lensboard.