Toyo 45gx - how to get more extension?

[Jeff Bannow]

Ok, so I have a Toyo 45gx with 2x 24" rails. The bellows are stretched to the max using both rails.

I assume since everything is so modular, that I could add a rail, bellows and front standard and extend it out further. Is this true? Would it have to be another 45gx?

[Ari]

You should be able to, the GX is part of the G series, so any G accessories will be usable.
Most Toyo standards have sliding locks on the front and back, so attaching an extra bellows is easy.
I seem to remember something about being able to use a maximum of three rails, but maybe someone here, more knowledgeable than I, can confirm that.

[Jeff Bannow]

Thanks!

I can see needing 2 tripods to keep it stable.

[Ari]

You may be right about two tripods, but then again...
I once had a three-rail set-up with the 810G, and I didn't experience any vibration even though it was all on one tripod.
At the time I had one of those big Manfrotto (4x4-inch) QR plates that fit the tripod base nicely.
So don't rush out and buy another tripod because it looks like the GX is much lighter than the G.

[Bob Salomon]

You should be able to use an auxilliary standard rather then having to buy a complete front standard. Aux. standards are the way most cameras add extreme extensions.

[Taija71A]

____

>> Ok, so I have a Toyo 45gx with 2x 24" rails.

Hi Jeff!

Are you sure that your two (2) 'existing' Monorails are both 24" (i.e. 600mm)??? Something doesn't quite sound right here (*Unless of course you are using a 'Non-Stock' Camera of course).
--
AFAIK... The 'Basic Rail' (with two Female ends) for the Toyo GX/Robos Cameras was always 250mm AND the length of 'Extension Rails' (One Male end and One Female end)... That were previously offered for the Toyo GX/Robos Cameras -- Was either 150mm or 250mm.

*Of course, Toyo did offer a longer Extension Rail... For the earlier 'G' Series Cameras (G, GB, GII) of 500mm in Length.
--

>> The bellows are stretched to the max using both rails.
Jeff, I assume that you are presently using a Toyo 4x5 'Long Bellows' (extends to 30" (750mm) ) and not just the Toyo Standard Bellows)???
--

>> I seem to remember something about being able to use a maximum of three rails, but maybe someone here, more knowledgeable than I, can confirm that.
Yes, Ari is partially 'correct' in his statement (but 99.9% accurate in his idea)...

I am quite sure, that this is the statement that Ari was previously referring to:


"Toyo 39mm diameter monorails fit all monorail cameras. Robos (*'Or GX Cameras' -- Italics Added) rails offer unlimited extension by means of continuous additional sections. G-system monorails allow maximum extension of 1250mm with the addition of two extensions on each side of the base monorail."


Thus as can be seen from the above cited statement Jeff... You could 'theoretically' continue to add 'Unlimited' *Extension Rails* to your Toyo GX Camera.
However... The question of additional Standards, Bellows Support Frames, Bellows, Tripod Mounting Blocks/Plates and Tripods -- Is of course another story! :)
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

[Jeff Bannow]

____

>> Ok, so I have a Toyo 45gx with 2x 24" rails.

Hi Bob!

Are you sure that your two (2) 'existing' Monorails are both 24" (i.e. 600mm)??? Something doesn't quite sound right here (*Unless of course you are using a 'Non-Stock' Camera of course).
--
AFAIK... The 'Basic Rail' (with two Female ends) for the Toyo GX/Robos Cameras was always 250mm AND the length of 'Extension Rails' (One Male end and One Female end)... That were previously offered for the Toyo GX/Robos Cameras -- Was either 150mm or 250mm.

*Of course, Toyo did offer a longer Extension Rail... For the earlier 'G' Series Cameras (G, GB, GII) of 500mm in Length.
--

>> The bellows are stretched to the max using both rails.
I assume that you are presently using a Toyo 4x5 'Long Bellows' (extends to 30" (750mm) ) and not just the Toyo Standard Bellows)???
--

>> I seem to remember something about being able to use a maximum of three rails, but maybe someone here, more knowledgeable than I, can confirm that.
Yes, Ari is partially 'correct' in his statement (but 99.9% accurate in his idea)...

I am quite sure that this is the statement that Ari previously read at one time:


"Toyo 39mm diameter monorails fit all monorail cameras. Robos (*'Or GX Cameras' -- Italics Added) rails offer unlimited extension by means of continuous additional sections. G-system monorails allow maximum extension of 1250mm with the addition of two extensions on each side of the base monorail."


Thus as can be seen from the above cited statement Bob... You could 'theoretically' continue to add 'Unlimited' *Extension Rails* to your Toyo GX Camera.
However... The question of additional Standards, Bellows Support Frames, Bellows, Tripod Mounting Blocks/Plates and Tripods -- Is of course another story! :)
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

I think you're right - they are marked 1 - 24 but those might be centimeters. I'll measure it when I get home.

[Taija71A]

____

>> I think you're right - they are marked 1 - 24 but those might be centimeters. I'll measure it when I get home.

Hi Jeff,

No problem at all...
Yes, that definitely makes a lot more sense Jeff! :)
--
At the present time... My 'guessestimate' is, that you are definitely using the Toyo GX/Robos 250mm 'Basic Rail' with one (1) Additional Toyo GX/Robos 250mm 'Extension Rail'.
--
If I can be of any other further assistance to you... Please feel free to just ask or shoot me a PM -- Okay? Thank-you.
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

[Jeff Bannow]

So, if I had another identical kit (45GX and 2 rails) I could link them together? That's my plan then.

[Ari]

So, if I had another identical kit (45GX and 2 rails) I could link them together? That's my plan then.

Best to check on the 3-rail issue first, and see which rails you will be using; the male/female part is important, as it will limit the number of rails possible.
AFAIK... The 'Basic Rail' (with two Female ends) for the Toyo GX/Robos Cameras was always 250mm AND the length of 'Extension Rails' (One Male end and One Female end)... That were previously offered for the Toyo GX/Robos Cameras -- Was either 150mm or 250mm.
Adding extra standards should be no problem, as would be the bellows.

[Taija71A]

____

>> So, if I had another identical kit (45GX and 2 rails) I could link them together? That's my plan then.

***** NO!!! *****
This will not work Jeff!


*** PLEASE *** Remember Jeff... That in order to join the 'Rails' together -- You *ALWAYS* need (One Male end and One Female end). :)

Therefore... If you are trying to join together two *IDENTICAL* Toyo Cameras together (As per your above cited proposal, with Four (4) Rails in Total) ) -- I.e. *BOTH* Cameras using One (1) Standard Rail (Two Female Ends) + One (1) Extension Rail (One Mail End and One Female End)... That you would end up trying to connect your two cameras together (*With only 'Female Ends' available to you). Not so cool! LOL. Smile.

*** When you get home Jeff, please take a look at your existing camera... And pretend that you have two (2) IDENTICAL Cameras -- That are identical to your present camera and that you now need to connect them together. You will see what I mean! *** :)
--
To make your idea work Jeff... You would need One (1) Standard Rail (Two Female Ends) with Three (3) Extension Rails (One Mail End and One Female End).
*** (I.e. 'Substitute Out' one of your 'Standard Rails' for an 'Extension Rail') ***
--
Very sorry about the 'Long Winded' explanation Jeff. Just trying to be of assistance to you! :)
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

[Taija71A]

___

My sincerest apologies at this time... To *BOTH* 'Jeff Bannow' and Mr. 'Bob Salomon' at HP Marketing. :)
--
I just noticed that in ALL of my 'original replies' to this thread... That I previously 'inadvertently' referred to 'Jeff' as 'Bob'. :( :( :(
--
This 'oversight' on my part has now been corrected in all of my postings in this thread and was *Definitely* not intentional or in any way, shape or form... Meant to cause disrespect or harm to anyone!

Once again... I am very sorry for any confusion that this may have caused -- Both of you.
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

[Jeff Bannow]

____

>> So, if I had another identical kit (45GX and 2 rails) I could link them together? That's my plan then.

***** NO!!! *****
This will not work Jeff!


*** PLEASE *** Remember Jeff... That in order to join the 'Rails' together -- You *ALWAYS* need (One Male end and One Female end). :)

Therefore... If you are trying to join together two *IDENTICAL* Toyo Cameras together (As per your above cited proposal, with Four (4) Rails in Total) ) -- I.e. *BOTH* Cameras using One (1) Standard Rail (Two Female Ends) + One (1) Extension Rail (One Mail End and One Female End)... That you would end up trying to connect your two cameras together (*With only 'Female Ends' available to you). Not so cool! LOL. Smile.

*** When you get home Jeff, please take a look at your existing camera... And pretend that you have two (2) IDENTICAL Cameras -- That are identical to your present camera and that you now need to connect them together. You will see what I mean! *** :)
--
To make your idea work Jeff... You would need One (1) Standard Rail (Two Female Ends) with Three (3) Extension Rails (One Mail End and One Female End).
*** (I.e. 'Substitute Out' one of your 'Standard Rails' for an 'Extension Rail') ***
--
Very sorry about the 'Long Winded' explanation Jeff. Just trying to be of assistance to you! :)
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

I see what you mean. So, I have the ability to get a kit with a standard rail, an extension rail, 2 standards and the bellows. I could use 1 standard, the bellows and an extension rail from it. I would need to acquire another extension rail separately.

Thanks for the help!

[salan]

Without wishing to hijack the thread, what would you use so much extension for?
Magnification?
I have a Toyo bought last year, my first lf camera. Due to ilness thkugh i have not been able to use it yet.
Alan

[Taija71A]

____

>> So, I have the ability to get a kit with a standard rail, an extension rail, 2 standards and the bellows.

Hi Jeff,

Cool. Sounds like a 'Nice Kit' Jeff! :)
--
*** Jeff... How much 'Bellows Extension' are you requiring 'in total'... 750mm 1000mm??? How many 'Standards' and 'Bellows' are you thinking of using??? ***

*** Jeff... How long of a F.L. Lens are you planning on using with this 'Set-up' and at what 'Image Magnification'??? ***

It sounds to me, like *perhaps* that two (2) Standard Toyo Bellows... Is not going to get you -- Where you want to be?

(*Only you of course can answer all of these questions... As to your wants/needs!). :)

>> I could use 1 standard, the bellows and an extension rail from it. I would need to acquire another extension rail separately.

YES. Although I *Believe* that 'in actuality' you could use *** Both *** of the (2) Standards from your new kit + the new Bellows and the new Extension Rail -- From it!
But then again... Three Standards 'in total' -- Should do all that you should ever want to do -- And More! LOL. :)
--
>> I would need to acquire another extension rail separately.
Yes... If you need *** Four (4) rails 'in total' *** (1000mm Extension = 4 x 250mm) for your Toyo 4x5 GX -- Then this is correct!
--
>> Thanks for the help!
No problem at all Jeff. You of course are more than welcome!
(* Been there done that... Different systems however!).
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

[Jeff Bannow]

Without wishing to hijack the thread, what would you use so much extension for?
Magnification?
I have a Toyo bought last year, my first lf camera. Due to ilness thkugh i have not been able to use it yet.
Alan

I would like to explore some macro work, so I need higher magnifications. For higher magnification, you need more bellows.

[Taija71A]

___

Hi Alan,

>> Without wishing to hijack the thread, what would you use so much extension 'Magnification' for?

Alan, without speaking for Jeff personally... *YES* one would either use a large amount of extension for 'Magnification' *OR* when requiring the use of an extremely long Focal Length lens 'at Infinity'.

Since Jeff is using a 'Studio Camera' (Toyo 4x5 GX's in his case)... My Guess is that he is requiring this extension for 'Magnification' -- As in 'Table Top' or Macro Photography.
(*Alan... IC that Jeff has now confirmed this point for you). :)
--
Congratulations on your Toyo purchase Alan!
I sincerely hope that you are feeling better *** REAL Soon!!! *** :)
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

[salan]

Thanks for that. Typically what lens would you use for that level of magnification?
I have two backs and bellows one for 4x5 and one for 10x8. Plus one extension bar. I am interested in macro, so would like to find out more.
Alan

[Taija71A]

____

>> I am interested in macro, so would like to find out more.
>> for that level of magnification?

Allan... What 'Level of Magnification' are you referring to?
I don't believe that Jeff ever mentioned any *specific* 'Image Magnifications' in this thread -- Thus far...


1:5 1:2 1:1 2:1 5:1 10:1 ?????


Alan... Which camera were you planning on using (4x5, 8x10)? What equipment do you specifically own? What are you trying to Photograph? What is your 'Object or Subject' Size? How much 'Bellows Draw' do you have to work with? Etc., etc., etc... 'Ad Infinitum'...
--
Alan, if you are *Truly Interested* in this subject... I would 'highly recommend' that you read a good Photography Book on the subject first or just 'Google' it. All the information that you will ever need to know on the subject... Is already 'Out There' -- For the learning and taking of it! :)
--
However to get you started... I will throw you a few 'juicy bones' -- In 'no particular' order of course! (*O'ooop's... I meant to say some URL's with *Basic* Photographic 'Formulas'). LOL. :)


http://www.tripodplaces.com/archives/photography-formulas-macro/

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/bellows-factor.html


--
Best,

-Tim.
________

[salan]

Thank you for that Tim.
I have used mainly macro lenses and extension tubes for 35mm so far up to 2:1
I have used bellows on 35mm once, so as I have done no lf photography ( hoping health will improve soon), i have no experience of using bellows/lf macro at all.
Anyway appologies for hijacking the thread. I will read the links and look for other threads on macro. Although not found any books on lf macro yet.
Alan

[Taija71A]

____

No problem at all Alan! You of course are more than welcome.
(*And 'NO'... You were not 'Hijacking' the thread -- At least IMNSHO)... LOL. :)
--
Alan... If you should ever have the opportunity (*And I sincerely hope that you do)... You will find that there is a *** BIG, BIG *** Difference in trying to shoot 'Macro' with LF Equipment... As opposed to 35mm. With LF... You can 'Run out of Bellows' very, very, quickly (*Even at only 1:1 Magnification). :)
--
Alan... If you should have any other questions or concerns, please feel free to PM me at any time (*If you would like) -- Okay? I would be 'only too happy' to try and further assist you -- To the best of my ability! LOL. :)
--
Best,

-Tim.
________

[peoplemerge]

Hi all!

It's my first post on this forum. Instead of starting a new thread, I figure I'll piggyback here since this is just what I'm trying to do as well. Hope I'm not hijacking, either.

My setup is a Toyo View 45G with both bellows and bag and the following lenses:
Schneider-Kreuznach Symmar 5.6/135 12/235
Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 150/4.5 # 3406932
Bogen arcar 6.3/90

I, too would like to get into macro with this setup so I bought an extension tube and figured I'd also need another standard in order to connect the bellows and the bag. But how to connect the extension? See photo, did I get the wrong tube for my setup? 120009

My needs are generally for experimental video with a custom mount I made for a Canon 5D mark 2 (a small format camera with video capabilities), although since I've married into a family of artists, I anticipate needing some still photo of drawings, paintings, and sculptures of *all* sizes.

To make matters worse, I encountered a true bargain Goerz red dot ARTAR APO 19" (dialyte, process lens) at the local vintage camera show and could not resist. As I expected, I ran out of bellows before I even got started and ended up with this frankencamera 120010 and after dissasembling a C-Stand on which to mount the Canon, was able to produce this video (http://cdn.peoplemerge.com/Art/Flowers), which is exactly what I had in mind from the start.

Today, I just read this site's (excellent) page on macro, and wow I'll need 480x2 mm to achieve 1:1. Sigh. Suggestions?