View Full Version : 19" Goerz Red Dot Artar Shutter

29-Jul-2013, 11:30
Okay here's a question for one of you vintage lens Gurus - Dan Fromm? Jim Galli? Anyone? - Can a 19" RDA be mounted directly into a Copal 3 shutter? What's the chance that Ilex #4 and Copal 3 front and rear diameter and threads are the same size? (I know I'm reaching here!)

I recently acquired from a successful Fleebay auction, a nice 19" Red Dot Artar mounted in an Ilex - Acme - Synchro - Whatnot - #4 shutter. After a good half hour putzing with it, I figured out how to work the shutter, being previously familiar with the workings of only the standard Copal (and one Seiko) shutters. So now that I have the Ilex #4 figured out, it sounds to be off by a fair bit in the 'mid speeds' (1/10, 1/25, 1/50) when compared with a known-good modern Copal shutter. I see that John Shiu has a nice black-ringed C-3 shutter for sale and I'm wondering just what the odds might be that I could just unscrew this puppy out of the Ilex and right into a Copal 3.

If not a direct fit, is it possible anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a minor SK Grimes retrofit of the RDA into a C-3? I'm sure ANYTHING is possible, but I'm not thinking of blazing new trails here, or going where no man has gone before on this. THanks for your advice..... :)

Erik Larsen
29-Jul-2013, 11:34
I would just service the ilex, it's a good shutter in my experience.

Daniel Stone
29-Jul-2013, 11:34
Just get a CLA done on the Ilex, they're great shutters. Very durable in my experience.

here's the best two people I can recommend for Ilex repairs:

Carol Miller(Flutot)

Frank Marshman


29-Jul-2013, 11:59
Oh! Servicing the existing shutter didn't even occur to me! Duh. I guess the first thing that occurred to me was to replace the shutter with something newer - So no comments yet on interchangeability betwixt Ilex 4 and Copal 3?

Dan Fromm
29-Jul-2013, 12:13
skgrimes says it can be done with any of several shutters, see http://www.skgrimes.com/lens-mounting/table-of-lenses-fitted-to-shutters . I agree completely with the advice you've got so far. Getting the Ilex it is in a CLA will cost less than and be as effective as shelling out for a replacement shutter and, if necessary, a remount.

And I'd recommend Frank Marshman over Mrs. Miller. He's quicker, much more responsive and has parts.

Erik Larsen
29-Jul-2013, 12:20
I don't believe they are interchangeable shutters, at least mine are not. It would require adapters to be machined with proper threads and spacing. Ask Jon if his shutter for sale had and rda in it and you might be in luck?

Don Dudenbostel
30-Jul-2013, 18:14
Can not interchange between a copal and ilex. Threads are different and believe the diameter and spacing of the mount are different. I've had several RDA's in ilex shutters and had copal 3 shutters. I believe the copal is metric and the ilex American threads.

Ilex shutters are very good and run for many decades. Get it serviced. I use Paul Ebel and he's always done a first class job at a reasonable price. Ilex shutters are fairly simple and easy to service.