New Carbon Prints

[sanking]

I am involved this summer in making some fairly large carbon transfer prints, basically 17X23" and 20X27" in size. I have printed most of these images before but for this work, considering the printing size, I am re-scanning them with a drum scanner. The image I am posting today was captured on 5X7 TMY film in Oaxaca, Mexico in 2005. The subject, as you can see, is light and texture, and those two things draw me to many of my images.

If you don't know carbon transfer it is one of the oldest of all photographic processes, invented more or less the way we use it today in 1865. The prints can be any color you like, and the image can be placed on many types of paper. I use both fixed out rag photographic paper as well as 100% cotton rag papers that I size with hardened gelatin.

I expect this project to last several months and as it continues I will post new work. This one is called Rejas #1, is very warm brown, and is on double weight photo fiber based paper. The negatives were printed on Pictorico with an Epson 7800 using a QTR profile that I developed and calibrated to my tissue. One of the fascinating things to me about this print is how the black bars separate themselves from the black background. This particular look is unique to carbon printing and results from the real three-dimensional surface of carbon prints. People who have never seen a well-crafted carbon transfer print before are often startled by the 3-D look, which unfortunately you won't see on a monitor. You have to experience it in real life.

Please feel free to add your carbon prints to this thread.

Sandy

[h2oman]

That's really nice, Sandy. I was at your web page a few minutes ago, and enjoyed very much the tree trunk wood grain image on your home page.

[Kimberly Anderson]

Wonderful. Big carbon prints would be magical to see.

[Tri Tran]

Hi Sandy,
Great to see you opened this threat. Hope to see more wonderful Carbon print from members here.Happy printing.

[Tin Can]

Good to see a fresh look. It might be helpful for an occasional post about where carbon Prints can be viewed directly. I imagine there are some in Chicago, but I have no idea where.

I have visited your sites and was on the yahoo one for a while until we had the spam attack. I will sign back up soon.

Thanks, I look forward to more on carbon transfer.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Randy, there are few competent carbon printers out there. Some people print to try it out and find that it is not for them. We have a few printers in California. Come to Ventura in August and I can show you many from in camera negatives.

Sandy, nice to see the prints on line and hope to see the real ones in the future. Carbon prints must be seen in person to enjoy the delicate beauty. Great to hear that you've got them big.

[Tin Can]

I'm lucky to keep myself in film, let alone travel to the Golden State. Do they still call it that?

I'm gonna post on FB and see if anybody knows anything in Chicago.

I guess I would be lucky if no one was doing Carbon Prints in the Midwest, but there must be someone.

Let's see what develops!


Randy, there are few competent carbon printers out there. Some people print to try it out and find that it is not for them. We have a few printers in California. Come to Ventura in August and I can show you many from in camera negatives.

Sandy, nice to see the prints on line and hope to see the real ones in the future. Carbon prints must be seen in person to enjoy the delicate beauty. Great to hear that you've got them big.

[bob carnie]

I am looking forward to finding a show in Toronto for these prints Sandy, and seeing you of course.

[Curt]

Sandy your prints are exquisite and pristine. To the casual viewer the process appears deceptively simple, however, it requires years of practice to approach your level. And that is if there is persistence and talent. The difficulties are many, the rewards are great. You made an excellent start of a thread on a beautiful process.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Not very many dedicated carbon printers around especially up here. Since I started 4 years ago I've loved every minute of it. Wish I could see your big prints, Sandy.
Now I'm off to Saskatchewan with my camera!

[Nicolasllasera]

Im getting your book here in Spain on thursday (as shipping doesnt come all the way here). Got everything ready to start. I hope to see everyone work here and learn as much as possible.

[Peter De Smidt]

I would love to see those prints! Hopefully, there'll be an exhibition of them somewhere in the Midwest.

[Nathan Potter]

I've never seen a carbon print but am intrigued by the process and results. I assume the three dimensional sensation people talk about is due to a much thicker deposit of carbon in the shadow areas of the print vs the highlight areas (that is significant relief is present).

Viewing some carbon images on the web seems to imply that the process produces pretty high contrast prints but I wonder if this is an erroneous assumption compared to the real prints.

Sandy, if you start with a full tonal range negative, whether a digital of film version, can you do a good job of capturing both the highlight and shadow detail that is in the original?

Look forward to following this thread, and thanks for the start Sandy.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[sanking]

I would love to see those prints! Hopefully, there'll be an exhibition of them somewhere in the Midwest.

Once I get the work finished for the first exhibition, which I hope to be in Toronto, I should be able to move it to other places. It will be a unique body of work I believe.

Sandy

[Tin Can]

Good to hear. I'm sure you will post your shows.

The Art Institute of Chicago has some Stieglitz carbon prints, but they can be impossible to view unless in exhibition.


Once I get the work finished for the first exhibition, which I hope to be in Toronto, I should be able to move it to other places. It will be a unique body of work I believe.

Sandy

[dekastudio]

Not very many dedicated carbon printers around especially up here. Since I started 4 years ago I've loved every minute of it. Wish I could see your big prints, Sandy.
Now I'm off to Saskatchewan with my camera!

Hi Andrew
I am new to this forum. I live in Saskatoon. What are you going to do with your camera in Saskatchewan?
Derek

[Peter De Smidt]

I'd be up for a visit to Toronto to see them.

[bob carnie]

We plan to show them in the Contact Photo Festival next May, I will post once we get the gallery space.
May is a fantastic month to visit Toronto.


I'd be up for a visit to Toronto to see them.

[sanking]

I've never seen a carbon print but am intrigued by the process and results. I assume the three dimensional sensation people talk about is due to a much thicker deposit of carbon in the shadow areas of the print vs the highlight areas (that is significant relief is present).

Viewing some carbon images on the web seems to imply that the process produces pretty high contrast prints but I wonder if this is an erroneous assumption compared to the real prints.

Sandy, if you start with a full tonal range negative, whether a digital of film version, can you do a good job of capturing both the highlight and shadow detail that is in the original?

Look forward to following this thread, and thanks for the start Sandy.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

Nate,

Carbon is neither a low contrast nor high contrast process. Depending on how one makes the tissue, the strength of the dichromate sensitizer, and the negative, it is possible to print virtually any negative and get a low contrast type print or a high contrast type print.

Capturing highlight detail is definitely possible but more challenging than with a process like pt/pd. Pure palladium has a long toe and very compressed shoulder so you can get an acceptable print over a fairly wide range of exposures. Carbon, on the other hand, has a very straight line curve so if you hit the shadows correctly in exposure time then the sensitizer has to be almost exact for the highlights. And unlike palladium, where if you miss the exposure you can make another print in 15-20 minutes, with carbon your test prints all need several hours due to the wet/dry conditions. So to be productive you have to be awfully sensitive to every variable that can impact the final result.

The key to printing in carbon is to understand the strengths of the process, which are deep shadows, very high definition and the ability to show texture and lines extremely well due to the 3D effect, and to use the process to enhance your images.

Sandy

[Vaughn]

I'll just toss this one into the thread -- one of my latest that I have shown here before.

Branches, 2013
Trinidad State Beach, CA
4x10 negative and print.

[Jim Shanesy]

Sandy:

Will you be in Easley around the time school starts? I may be down your way then. I'd love to see some of these prints.

[sanking]

Sandy:

Will you be in Easley around the time school starts? I may be down your way then. I'd love to see some of these prints.

Hi Jim,

Would love to get together and look at prints, yours and mine.

The only conflict I have is August 14-20 as I am going over to Louisiana for a few days to visit with relatives.

Sandy

[polyglot]

Damn all you people posting carbon prints and videos! You're gonna end up costing me a lot of time and money, I just know it.

[Emil Schildt]

:o

Sorry about this but the title does state "New Carbon Prints"....

And I have just made my VERY very first attempt to make my own..

Amazed anything is actually on it...
LOTs of flaws! too gray - some strange artifacts.. frilling...

Who cares?
I made a Carbon Print!!

Must do more - rehearse a lot...

Thanks to Jim for all his nice help..

[Tin Can]

I am glad people post mistakes and early attempts, if we only see perfection, we become discouraged. We=I

Thanks for the honesty!


:o

Sorry about this but the title does state "New Carbon Prints"....

And I have just made my VERY very first attempt to make my own..

Amazed anything is actually on it...
LOTs of flaws! too gray - some strange artifacts.. frilling...

Who cares?
I made a Carbon Print!!

Must do more - rehearse a lot...

Thanks to Jim for all his nice help..

[Vaughn]

:o

Sorry about this but the title does state "New Carbon Prints"....

And I have just made my VERY very first attempt to make my own..

Congrats! You got an image! My first print was a solid black mess, so I made new tissue and the next set of prints had a faint hint of images. I figured I had it ranged and the next print was right in between!

Fairly inexpensive process, except for the investment of time.

Vaughn

[sanking]

I am glad people post mistakes and early attempts, if we only see perfection, we become discouraged. We=I

Thanks for the honesty!

I did a workshop recently with a young woman who just got her BFA and plans to go to graduate school in the fall. She had worked with carbon on her own with not a lot of success before the workshop, and hoped to learn enough to be able to be able to print her MFA exhibition with carbon. At some time during the workshop she asked me how long it took me to make my first good carbon printer after I got started. I told her the truth, it took me three years! Her reply was, "Oh no, Mr. Sandy".

Course, back when I started printing with carbon we did not have resources on the web and the ability to get feed-back on our work from good carbon printers was not widely available. But even with all of the information the internet offers us carbon transfer remains a fairly complicated medium to master.

Sandy

[Tin Can]

Good to know. I am hesitant to even begin. I have many things I need to do first so my laboratory is actually ready.

I'm big on research, and then experimentation. Thank you all for sharing and especially Sandy King, who seems to be the leader of the pack.

I will be ordering your book later today. Seems the only library copy is in Montana!

Nothing good comes easy!


I did a workshop recently with a young woman who just got her BFA and plans to go to graduate school in the fall. She had worked with carbon on her own with not a lot of success before the workshop, and hoped to learn enough to be able to be able to print her MFA exhibition with carbon. At some time during the workshop she asked me how long it took me to make my first good carbon printer after I got started. I told her the truth, it took me three years! Her reply was, "Oh no, Mr. Sandy".

Course, back when I started printing with carbon we did not have resources on the web and the ability to get feed-back on our work from good carbon printers was not widely available. But even with all of the information the internet offers us carbon transfer remains a fairly complicated medium to master.

Sandy

[Emil Schildt]

Second try..

reversed image

still to flat but again there's an image... yeah!

[Tin Can]

I think you do fine, considering your past work shown here.


Second try..

reversed image

still to flat but again there's an image... yeah!

[Emil Schildt]

I think you do fine, considering your past work shown here.

ther's a double meaning hidden somwhere here... :rolleyes:

[Tin Can]

:) ;(


ther's a double meaning hidden somwhere here... :rolleyes:

[sanking]

Good to know. I am hesitant to even begin. I have many things I need to do first so my laboratory is actually ready.

I'm big on research, and then experimentation. Thank you all for sharing and especially Sandy King, who seems to be the leader of the pack.

I will be ordering your book later today. Seems the only library copy is in Montana!

Nothing good comes easy!

Randy,

Have a look at the article on carbon printing on my web site. It is a good introduction to carbon printing and you could make a good start from the information in the article. http://www.sandykingphotography.com/resources/technical-writing/carbon-transfer-process

Sandy

[Tin Can]

Thanks Sandy, I have read most of your online information.

In the Fall, I hope to put theory to paper, as it were.




Randy,

Have a look at the article on carbon printing on my web site. It is a good introduction to carbon printing and you could make a good start from the information in the article. http://www.sandykingphotography.com/resources/technical-writing/carbon-transfer-process

Sandy

[Jim Cole]

Second try..

reversed image

still to flat but again there's an image... yeah!

Really nice. I sure wish I had the space to play with this technique. Heck, I wish I could do any kind of printing by hand.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Jim, you really do not need a lot of space. I use my bathtub and I print from negatives that are up to 14x17! What you need is time. When I started I read everything I could find by Sandy and others. I met Vaughn, took a workshop from him and started printing and never looked back. The process can be difficult to master but when you do Wow! For me I print nothing but carbon transfer because I can print almost any negative.
You need to put in the time. Here is one from a while ago. Hard to print in a humid climate that I live in.

[Tin Can]

Jim,

Very nice image and print.
So you are saying a dry climate is best, i.e. low humidity, sounds perfect for a Chicago winter. Very dry inside.


Jim, you really do not need a lot of space. I use my bathtub and I print from negatives that are up to 14x17! What you need is time. When I started I read everything I could find by Sandy and others. I met Vaughn, took a workshop from him and started printing and never looked back. The process can be difficult to master but when you do Wow! For me I print nothing but carbon transfer because I can print almost any negative.
You need to put in the time. Here is one from a while ago. Hard to print in a humid climate that I live in.

[sanking]

Great to see carbon prints by Gandolfi, Vaughn and Jim. Keep them coming so people will get the message that this is one great process!

I have another 17X23" carbon transfer print to post. This one is from an original TMY 5X7 negative, exposed in Oaxaca, Mexico, and developed in Pyrocat-HD. People who have seen some of my work may recognize the image as it is on my web site and has been at a couple of exhibitions. However, the previous prints were either large palladiums, or small carbons. So this is the first really nice large carbon print I have made of this image. For this series I am trying to keep a similar tone so the warm black look, based on lampblack and burnt umber, is the same as in the previous image.

For most of my work I like the look of carbon prints on hard glossy type baryta papers as it enhances the look of relief and detail. However, an image like this does not benefit from hard detail so I thought it would go better on sized art paper. This image is on gelatin sized Arche's Platine, with a bit of starch added to the size to give a matte look. The paper was 22X28" but I cut it down to 20X25" for the transfer. The print has a matte look, but with much better Dmax than you can get with pt/pd. In contrast to the first image I posted, which sings with the 3D look, this one has virtually no relief at all. Goes to show how versatile this process is in terms of final image "look."

OK, I will not be posting new images every day of these large carbon prints, you might think it is too easy. Just happen to have had these two already made when I started the thread. Actually, I have several other large carbon prints already completed but they are from either MF film or digital files, so not appropriate here.

Sandy

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Randy, hard to say but it is better than hot and humid!! It is all about finding a balance.

[Tin Can]

Sandy, I sure don't think anything about this looks easy.

Nice print, big 17x23, soon you will be making them in yards...

[Jim Cole]

Jim, you really do not need a lot of space. I use my bathtub and I print from negatives that are up to 14x17! What you need is time. When I started I read everything I could find by Sandy and others. I met Vaughn, took a workshop from him and started printing and never looked back. The process can be difficult to master but when you do Wow! For me I print nothing but carbon transfer because I can print almost any negative.
You need to put in the time. Here is one from a while ago. Hard to print in a humid climate that I live in.

Thanks for the encouragement. The rhododendron is superb. Maybe when we finally return to our home in Flagstaff in May, I'll revisit my bathroom darkroom plans that were cancelled in 2010 with our temporary move out here to Indiana. Seems like the dry climate there will be a benefit.

[PghArtist]

Sandy, As Chumlee would say, "Wow, wow, we ,wow."! Just beautiful. I hope to see your large carbon prints someday.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I'm on the road and cannot post anything for the next little while.
Derek, I was born and raised in Saskatoon. Went to Evan Hardy. I'll be mostly down in south west corner this time.
Sandhills area. Been there a few times. Also taking pics of Ukranian churches as that's another of area I've been interested in. Just about to cross Alberta...
Almost forgot... I've been asked to give a talk at a gallery in Vancouver in Oct. about large format and carbon transfer printing. I'll give more details later.

Cheers!

Andrew

[Erik Larsen]

Here's one for the list. 11x14 carbon transfer print on aluminum. Relief is quite striking on this one. Anyone who has the itch to try carbon printing should give it a go. It is cheap to learn, quite versatile with regards to color and contrast and a lot of fun to boot. Please forgive the iphone photo of the print:)
erik

[polyglot]

Is there sizing on the aluminium or is the surface sanded or what? Does the glow of the Al come through for all of the print, or just in the palest highlights?

Tri-color carbon on aluminium ought to look pretty fantastic...

[Erik Larsen]

Is there sizing on the aluminium or is the surface sanded or what? Does the glow of the Al come through for all of the print, or just in the palest highlights?

Tri-color carbon on aluminium ought to look pretty fantastic...

No sizing on this one on the aluminum. It is a fairly glossy surface aluminum sheet. I'm not sure if its enameled or powder coated? There is more gloss for sure in the highlights compared to the thicker gelatin built up in the shadows.
Erik

[Joe O'Hara]

[snip] People who have never seen a well-crafted carbon transfer print before are often startled by the 3-D look, which unfortunately you won't see on a monitor. You have to experience it in real life.

Please feel free to add your carbon prints to this thread.

Sandy

I have seen that look at your workshop in Philadelphia a few years back and more recently at Vaughn's. The word for it is "awesome".
I'm building a wet darkroom now and hope to be able to contribute on this thread some day.

[mdm]

Happy transfers. I have been away for a month, its great to see all the carbon bussyness thats been going on in my absence.

[andreios]

Wonderful prints everyone.. I hoped to spend the summer learning carbon transfer but life's been so chaotic last couple of months.. Hopefully it will get better in the autumn and winter and I will have also time besides the motivation to learn this.

[sanking]

No sizing on this one on the aluminum. It is a fairly glossy surface aluminum sheet. I'm not sure if its enameled or powder coated? There is more gloss for sure in the highlights compared to the thicker gelatin built up in the shadows.
Erik

The relief look of a carbon print on white enameled or powder coated aluminum is extraordinary. The only other surface that comes close is hard gloss RC photo paper.

Unfortunately, if a carbon image on enameled or powder coated aluminum is placed in an environment where there are rapid changes of humidity over a short period of time the relief image itself will often just separately partially or completely from the support. I tried several types of surface preparation and none of them prevented the separation. I even tried a product called Dibond which has a inner core of some type of plastic sandwiched between two thin pieces of while aluminum and the carbon relief came off it also in low humidity.

If I could get this to work so that the carbon relief was permanently affixed to Dibond, or an equivalent support, this would be my preferred final support for carbon prints.

Sandy

[Tin Can]

Not trying to be smart, then the Dibond Carbon print, would be museum quality, suitable only for high end art museums, with the chart recorder in the corner of the room.

Heck, some might think that a plus.


The relief look of a carbon print on white enameled or powder coated aluminum is extraordinary. The only other surface that comes close is hard gloss RC photo paper.

Unfortunately, if a carbon image on enameled or powder coated aluminum is placed in an environment where there are rapid changes of humidity over a short period of time the relief image itself will often just separately partially or completely from the support. I tried several types of surface preparation and none of them prevented the separation. I even tried a product called Dibond which has a inner core of some type of plastic sandwiched between two thin pieces of while aluminum and the carbon relief came off it also in low humidity.

If I could get this to work so that the carbon relief was permanently affixed to Dibond, or an equivalent support, this would be my preferred final support for carbon prints.

Sandy

[Erik Larsen]

The relief look of a carbon print on white enameled or powder coated aluminum is extraordinary. The only other surface that comes close is hard gloss RC photo paper.

Unfortunately, if a carbon image on enameled or powder coated aluminum is placed in an environment where there are rapid changes of humidity over a short period of time the relief image itself will often just separately partially or completely from the support. I tried several types of surface preparation and none of them prevented the separation. I even tried a product called Dibond which has a inner core of some type of plastic sandwiched between two thin pieces of while aluminum and the carbon relief came off it also in low humidity.

If I could get this to work so that the carbon relief was permanently affixed to Dibond, or an equivalent support, this would be my preferred final support for carbon prints.

Sandy

I remember you expressing your experience with the gelatin separating from the aluminum a while ago. Knock on wood, for the couple dozen prints I have attempted none have separated yet. My local humidity is very low, desert like. I have some prints in Texas and Florida that haven't failed yet in 18 or so months, I hope I'm lucky and they survive!
Erik

[Emil Schildt]

an amateur's feeble attempt...

Only my third try - ever..

this one actually have a nice relief, so I am on a track... question is what track..

[sanking]

I remember you expressing your experience with the gelatin separating from the aluminum a while ago. Knock on wood, for the couple dozen prints I have attempted none have separated yet. My local humidity is very low, desert like. I have some prints in Texas and Florida that haven't failed yet in 18 or so months, I hope I'm lucky and they survive!
Erik

Hi Erik,

I made some prints on the enameled or powder surface aluminum that lasted four or five years in my home, then they failed after sudden change of RH. Then there were some I shipped to other climates for testing, where the RH was very low, and they failed in a week or so. On the other hand I still have several carbons on enameled aluminum that I have show in my home for 5-6 years and they are still intact, one in particular that I have shown on an easel with no protection since I first made it, back in 2006 or or so.

The look is to die for. Wish there were a way to make the relief on these surfaces more stable.

Unfortunately, as attractive as I find the surface I don't trust it for long term stability.

I wish there were more people doing this, perhaps someone could come up with a solution!!

Sandy

[Jim Cole]

an amateur's feeble attempt...

Only my third try - ever..

this one actually have a nice relief, so I am on a track... question is what track..

Wow, great photograph, not to mention a beginner's carbon print. Bravo, Gandolfi!

[Erik Larsen]

Hi Sandy,
I wonder if another metal would work? Perhaps one with less tendency to expand and contract with temp and rh changes? I have put prints on glass that are still ok after a couple years. Maybe a thicker or thinner piece of aluminum would work? I think I used .030 if my memory serves.. I wonder if a thicker piece would resist dimensional change better? Do you recall the thickness that you used on your unsuccessful vs your successful prints? There's got to be a solution I would think to solve the problem. Didn't Bob Herbst use aluminum? Are you aware of his procedures and failure rate? Just thinking out loud.
Erik

[sanking]

Hi Sandy,
I wonder if another metal would work? Perhaps one with less tendency to expand and contract with temp and rh changes? I have put prints on glass that are still ok after a couple years. Maybe a thicker or thinner piece of aluminum would work? I think I used .030 if my memory serves.. I wonder if a thicker piece would resist dimensional change better? Do you recall the thickness that you used on your unsuccessful vs your successful prints? There's got to be a solution I would think to solve the problem. Didn't Bob Herbst use aluminum? Are you aware of his procedures and failure rate? Just thinking out loud.
Erik


Hi Erik,

Perhaps another metal with lower co-efficient of expansion would work. After all, in photogravure carbon tissue is developed on copper plates, and the plates seem to last a long time.

Several years ago a number of people were involved with making carbon prints on the enameld/powdered aluminum surface. I don't know of anyone who claims total success. I have seen many solutions proposed, including thin and thick coats of gelatin, coatings of albumen, and thin coats of modern polyesters and acrylics. So far as I know no one has claimed 100% stability in this area.

Sandy

[polyglot]

The relief look of a carbon print on white enameled or powder coated aluminum is extraordinary. The only other surface that comes close is hard gloss RC photo paper.

Unfortunately, if a carbon image on enameled or powder coated aluminum is placed in an environment where there are rapid changes of humidity over a short period of time the relief image itself will often just separately partially or completely from the support.

Yeah, that's what I figured would happen because there isn't a deep fibrous tooth to the surface like paper has, so there's nothing for the tissue to really grip. It's effectively vacuumed on. I have an inkjet-on-Al print which looks pretty good, which is why I thought this might be a good idea.

I wouldn't expect any change in the choice of metal to help: the problem will be the tissue expanding/shrinking with humidity and ripping itself off the support, not any change in size of the support.

Have you tried sanding the Al really coarsely (about 40-grit) or wire-brushing it for really deep scoring? It'll impart a texture to the image, but it might provide enough roughness to grip the tissue. What about encapsulating the print with museum-glass laid over the top with a ~1mm spacer? It could be hermetically sealed to prevent RH changes in the emulsion, though of course it's now at risk of abrasion/scoring damage when someone breaks the glass.

[benrains]

I wish there were more people doing this, perhaps someone could come up with a solution!!


I'd try working it from two angles. As has been suggested, finding a substrate with a lower coefficient of thermal expansion. 410 stainless steel has a coefficient of 9.9 vs aluminum's value of 22.2 (for μm/m/°C), so that might be an option. Another might be some sort of additive to the gelatin used in carbon tissue to help give it more plasticity across a wider range of relative humidities and temperatures. I'm not sure what would work, but I remember reading something about honey being used with wet plate photography to keep the plates from drying out quickly. Not that honey would be a what I'd recommend, but something along those lines.

[Tri Tran]

an amateur's feeble attempt...

Only my third try - ever..

this one actually have a nice relief, so I am on a track... question is what track..

Looking warmer here Emil. So I heard the tissue sensitized with Vodka? No wonder the print looks yummy.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Emil, for A third attempt ever this is great. Keep it up. NIce to have new people trying carbon.

[Tin Can]

I have been reading Sandy Kings' Carbon printing article in Jan/Feb 2004 View Camera and the description using store bought B&S tissue seems like a good start.

I bought the single old issue of Viewfinder for the article on Linhof monorails, but it is a great issue with many informative articles, seems more expansive than my last few new View Camera issues, which seemed to have stopped coming. Gotta check on that.

[Harold_4074]

Regarding the suitability of metals: gelatin probably expands and contracts much more with humidity changes than the metal does with the corresponding temperature changes (unfortunately, the two effects are in opposite directions :( )

Since there will always be interfacial stress, good adhesion--which is a strictly surface issue--may matter much more than the nature of the substrate. Some years back I had occasion to work with liquid silver-gelatin emulsion, and the instructions clearly stated that the "primer" of choice was oil based polyurethane, not the water-cleanup type. Since the emulsion was not adhering to the plastic substrate that I had, I tried urethane varnish and it worked like a charm. It would seem that the chemistry of both photo silver emulsion and carbon printing suspension would be dominated by the gelatin component, so a urethane primer might work for carbon printing (assuming that it adheres to aluminum or whatever).

"Powder coated" aluminum is unfortunately not definitive, since coating powders come in nylon, acrylic, polyester and probably other formulations. But the stuff used for roof gutters is made intentionally paintable, so urethane will probably stick to it. On the other hand, polyester film base doesn't seem to lose its gelatin coating easily, so whatever subbing layer is used for that would quite possibly work on polyester powder-coated aluminum.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I have been reading Sandy Kings' Carbon printing article in Jan/Feb 2004 View Camera and the description using store bought B&S tissue seems like a good start.

I bought the single old issue of Viewfinder for the article on Linhof monorails, but it is a great issue with many informative articles, seems more expansive than my last few new View Camera issues, which seemed to have stopped coming. Gotta check on that.

Randy, just my .02 here so take it or leave it. If you want to experience all that carbon has to offer you need to pour your own tissue. Think about it, you have to rely on someone else to give you the color you want. Carbon prints are born in the tissue. I used the B&S tissue and found it to be unacceptable for me. Like I said just the way I work and to each his own. Good luck.

[Tin Can]

Thanks for the advice Jim, I know you are correct.

I have a ways to go before any of this is happening, I have many irons in the fire.

Thanks again!



Randy, just my .02 here so take it or leave it. If you want to experience all that carbon has to offer you need to pour your own tissue. Think about it, you have to rely on someone else to give you the color you want. Carbon prints are born in the tissue. I used the B&S tissue and found it to be unacceptable for me. Like I said just the way I work and to each his own. Good luck.

[Emil Schildt]

Looking warmer here Emil. So I heard the tissue sensitized with Vodka? No wonder the print looks yummy.

actually no - I'll explain

EXPERTS; Pleae advise:

since my first attempts in this technique I have found the "old" William Crawford" book "The Keepers of Light" and too a look at Carbon...

about spirit sensitizing: using acetone or alchohol

I have a big darkroom, but "unfortunately" I also have a lot of students to consider, so I'd hate to use acetone in the darkroom...
alcohol then?

According to W Crawford, alcohol can not be used with Potassion Dichromate - only with Ammonium Dichromate.

So if that' strue, then I have no option than to use the Dichromate without anything (as I use Potassium Dichromate) - that' swhat I have been doing up till now so it might work... (that's how I did it when sensitizing for Oil Prints back in time..)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Emil, I'm no scientist at all but I use only Ammonium Dichromate and have never used Potassium. I guess I should have asked you which one you have? I'm not sure the effect and how to control it as I am not one to be a tester or scientist type. Sandy would have the experience on this issue.

[Emil Schildt]

Emil, I'm no scientist at all but I use only Ammonium Dichromate and have never used Potassium. I guess I should have asked you which one you have? I'm not sure the effect and how to control it as I am not one to be a tester or scientist type. Sandy would have the experience on this issue.

W Crawford states that alcohol will reduce P. Dichromate..

I' dhate to go through all that hazzle to try and get Ammonium Dichromate... (Here we need a Police Permit for buying this stuff...)

[sanking]

W Crawford states that alcohol will reduce P. Dichromate..

I' dhate to go through all that hazzle to try and get Ammonium Dichromate... (Here we need a Police Permit for buying this stuff...)

The biggest difference in use between ammonium and potassium dichromate is that the former is far more soluble in water. This fact limits how they may be mixed in 1+1 dilutions with either alcohol or acetone since neither dichromate has much solubility with these spirits. I use both potassium dichomate and ammonium dichromate diluted with acetone. High grade 91% isopropyl can be substituted for acetone in most conditions, but do not try to use cheap rubbing alcohol.

There is no difference in print quality between potassium and ammonium dichromate, assuming that you adjust for the slight difference in mol weight.

Sandy

[Wayne]

Would this be a good time to bring up DAS and have the experts kick it around the block a few times? I'm curious myself if it's actually a proven (or promising) or still very experimental substitute for dichromates, or no substitute at all.

[sanking]

Would this be a good time to bring up DAS and have the experts kick it around the block a few times? I'm curious myself if it's actually a proven (or promising) or still very experimental substitute for dichromates, or no substitute at all.

Diazidostilbene (DAS) is much more than an experimental substitute for dichromate, and in fact has a few advantages. The primary two advantages over dichromate are 1) DAS can be added to the pigmented gelatin when the tissue is made and the resulting tissue has excellent dark storage capability, and 2) there is more of a finite point in development, which makes DAS attractive for color printing where exact color control is necessary, and it has a history of successful use in Ultrastable, the last commercial color carbon printing method. DAS is also considered less toxic than dichromate, though that advantage is offset to some extent by the nasty clearing agents that must be used to clear print made with tissue sensitized in DAS.

DAS has several disadvantages compared to dichromate. The chemical itself is light sensitive and it must be stored in the dark, coating and sensitizing must be done under lower light conditions than with dichromate, and tissue sensitized with DAS requires longer exposure times than tissue sensitized in dichromate. There is also some question that DAS can be used to make carbon prints of considerable relief. Another disadvantage of DAS compared to dichromate is cost and supply.

On the whole I am of the opinion that for monochrome carbon printmaking the advantages of DAS compared to dichromate are outweighed by its disadvantages.

Sandy

[ndg]

About two months ago, I decided to try my hands at carbon printing. It's frankly been the most exasperating experience ever.
I have learnt a lot of tough things in my profession that were challenging. None of them matches learning carbon printing.
If there is a word that describes it best, it is unpredictability. At least when one starts.
Nothing feels as helpless as watching a beautiful image just float away - in pieces.
I never knew I knew that very many 4 -letter words!
I have quit, started again and quit more times than 2 teenagers in love.
Thanks to Sandy for a great article and Jim Fitzgerald for sending me pointers.
Anyway, this was my first image.
I used a dig neg on pictorico. I's about 12x18.

http://www.nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pics/Together-01.jpg

[ndg]

After a bunch a more tries I got this:

http://www.nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pics/Chapel-01a.jpg

[ndg]

And then this:

http://www.nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pics/Chains-01a.jpg

This image is about 14x20.

Since this image, it's been one disaster after another. So much so that I have quit again.
I am trying to gather the courage to plunge back in.

[Emil Schildt]

And then this:



Since this image, it's been one disaster after another. So much so that I have quit again.
I am trying to gather the courage to plunge back in.

I DO understand!!

[ndg]

I DO understand!!

Thanks!

[Tri Tran]

About two months ago, I decided to try my hands at carbon printing. It's frankly been the most exasperating experience ever.
I have learnt a lot of tough things in my profession that were challenging. None of them matches learning carbon printing.
If there is a word that describes it best, it is unpredictability. At least when one starts.
Nothing feels as helpless as watching a beautiful image just float away - in pieces.
I never knew I knew that very many 4 -letter words!
I have quit, started again and quit more times than 2 teenagers in love.
Thanks to Sandy for a great article and Jim Fitzgerald for sending me pointers.
Anyway, this was my first image.
I used a dig neg on pictorico. I's about 12x18.

http://www.nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pics/Together-01.jpg

Nice try over all but i can see your frustration . Its brutal when you see the tissue floats like this. Did you pour your own tissue? If not then you might consider it. The last one is the better one . Watch out the highlight like this or avoid it at no cost for the carbon print. Go small until you mastered your mechanical workflow. Have fun !

[ndg]

Nice try over all but i can see your frustration . Its brutal when you see the tissue floats like this. Did you pour your own tissue? If not then you might consider it. The last one is the better one . Watch out the highlight like this or avoid it at no cost for the carbon print. Go small until you mastered your mechanical workflow. Have fun !

Thanks Tri! Yea, I poured my own tissue. That is actually the fun bit.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

It can be frustrating. One must keep very good notes and be meticulous and consistent in your work flow. Environmental conditions come into play as well. Once mastered there is no going back.

[sanking]

Nice try over all but i can see your frustration . Its brutal when you see the tissue floats like this. Did you pour your own tissue? If not then you might consider it. The last one is the better one . Watch out the highlight like this or avoid it at no cost for the carbon print. Go small until you mastered your mechanical workflow. Have fun !

I second Tri's comment about going small until you master the workflow. Otherwise you will just spend all of your time making tissue.

A few other suggestions.

1. Start with a tissue formula that is known to work, and don't make a single substitution. Until you learn the fundamentals every change is suspect. And allow the tissue to dry for three or four days before you use it.

2. Get a Stouffer step wedge if you are printing with analog negatives, and learn how to control the sensitizer to printing a given range of steps. Working with digital negatives from the get go is problematic because you don't know what to expect in terms of the process exposure scale and the digital negative density range. But if you do begin with digital negatives find a carbon printer with a printer like the one you use and obtain his/her work flow.

3. Use only fixed out photographic paper for your first tests. Yes, it is nice to make carbon prints on sized 100% cotton rag papers, but preparing them correctly is very challenging.

4. Make sure you dry the sensitized tissue long enough. I dry for a minimum of two hours, with a fan, at RH of 45%.

5. Do not soak either the final paper support or the tissue for too long when you make the transfer. This is the number one reason for failure during warm water development.

6. Be mindful that carbon is highly sensitive to temperature and humidity so if you can control these two factors you go a long way to solving many mechanical issues.

Once your learn to control the process carbon is in fact quite predictable. So don't give up on carbon because it seems difficult, but do consider that there is a lot of learn, just as there would be with photo gravure or making a daguerreotype.

Sandy

[mdm]

Its really not that hard once you work out a system to help you avoid all the pitfalls. Experience shows you the pitfalls. Keep trying.

[Emil Schildt]

I second Tri's comment about going small until you master the workflow. Otherwise you will just spend all of your time making tissue.

A few other suggestions.

1. Start with a tissue formula that is known to work, and don't make a single substitution. Until you learn the fundamentals every change is suspect. And allow the tissue to dry for three or four days before you use it.

2. Get a Stouffer step wedge if you are printing with analog negatives, and learn how to control the sensitizer to printing a given range of steps. Working with digital negatives from the get go is problematic because you don't know what to expect in terms of the process exposure scale and the digital negative density range. But if you do begin with digital negatives find a carbon printer with a printer like the one you use and obtain his/her work flow.

3. Use only fixed out photographic paper for your first tests. Yes, it is nice to make carbon prints on sized 100% cotton rag papers, but preparing them correctly is very challenging.

4. Make sure you dry the sensitized tissue long enough. I dry for a minimum of two hours, with a fan, at RH of 45%.

5. Do not soak either the final paper support or the tissue for too long when you make the transfer. This is the number one reason for failure during warm water development.

6. Be mindful that carbon is highly sensitive to temperature and humidity so if you can control these two factors you go a long way to solving many mechanical issues.

Once your learn to control the process carbon is in fact quite predictable. So don't give up on carbon because it seems difficult, but do consider that there is a lot of learn, just as there would be with photo gravure or making a daguerreotype.

Sandy

well - here's my "problems"... (and I recognize you and Jim as the experts..)

1:Start with a tissue formula that is known to work, and don't make a single substitution.(difficult as I am embarking in another, very different world than I am used to: I am used to work in oils, but pigment is a total different issue... what is the best? brand, powder or liquid - being in Denmark I can't get the same brands as you can (easily)...) Until you learn the fundamentals every change is suspect.(Understood) And allow the tissue to dry for three or four days before you use it.(understood )

2. Get a Stouffer step wedge (have no idea what that is)) if you are printing with analog negatives, and learn how to control the sensitizer to printing a given range of steps. (understood)Working with digital negatives from the get go is problematic because you don't know what to expect in terms of the process exposure scale and the digital negative density range. But if you do begin with digital negatives find a carbon printer with a printer like the one you use and obtain his/her work flow. (Then I have to emigrate to America....)

3. Use only fixed out photographic paper for your first tests. Yes, it is nice to make carbon prints on sized 100% cotton rag papers, but preparing them correctly is very challenging. (understood)

4. Make sure you dry the sensitized tissue long enough. I dry for a minimum of two hours, with a fan, at RH of 45%. (Understood except I don't know what RH is...)

5. Do not soak either the final paper support or the tissue for too long when you make the transfer. This is the number one reason for failure during warm water development. (Understood)

6. Be mindful that carbon is highly sensitive to temperature and humidity so if you can control these two factors you go a long way to solving many mechanical issues. (Understood - but there's no way of controlling humidity here...)

Once your learn to control the process carbon is in fact quite predictable. So don't give up on carbon because it seems difficult, but do consider that there is a lot of learn, just as there would be with photo gravure or making a daguerreotype. (Understood - havn't given up... yet..)

___________________

My biggest problem is I think, that I am in another part of the world - and many of the well meaning advices I get are lost on me - because I am not able to get what is suggested - so a fair amount og guesswork is part of the game..

I read about spirit sensitizing - acetone or alcohol... I am using Potassium dichromate, not Ammonium Dichromate and read somewhere that P Dichromate can't be used with alcohol... Ammonium Dichromate isn't an option for me (police permit an'all..)

And as I have students to care about, acetone isn't an option either...

So I have to add Dichromate without that stuff (going ok but I am not sure when (or if ) I am going larger..)

So despite all the VERY kind and VERY VERY helpful advices, the learning of this makes Bromoil making using LE like a childs play... (and we used several years to get that right).

(I used to be a beginner in flute playing... somehow I forgot how difficult it was at first...)

[Vaughn]

RH = relative humidity. Basically, it is the percentage of water (vapor) the air contains compared to the maximum it could hold at that air temperature. Thus things dry out faster the lower the RH.

Pigment -- one easy source is watercolor paint in tubes (I use the color "lampblack" for a neutral tone). Stick to one brand as the amount of pigment differs between brands. The carbon is finely ground and evenly distributed in the paint. The medium is usually gum arabic which is compatible with the process. A little more expensive than some other sources, but one does not use very much, so cost is not a big factor.

Step wedges: http://www.stouffer.net/TransPage.htm

I have never used them, but they are a nice tool. As I was teaching myself the process, I just went by how the print looked.

I do use acetone, but like Sandy I like the smell. I also set up a fume hood so that I did not have to breathe any fumes...just some cardboard and plastic to make a box set up at an exhaust vent. You can easily make one with a small in-line fan (from a junked computer. perhaps?)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Emil, I think the biggest problem you have is mixing the dichromate after it is in stock solution. Not sure what to recommend here. Maybe Sandy has an answer. From what I have seen you understand the mechanics of the process and as we all agree you learn more every time you print.

I've never used a step wedge either but then Vaughn taught me carbon and I always judged the print and was lucky from the start. I love the smell of acetone as well and I wish you had it. So we will have to find a solution to the sensitizing problem. Good prints take time as you know.

[ndg]

I second Tri's comment about going small until you master the workflow. Otherwise you will just spend all of your time making tissue.

A few other suggestions.

1. Start with a tissue formula that is known to work, and don't make a single substitution. Until you learn the fundamentals every change is suspect. And allow the tissue to dry for three or four days before you use it.

2. Get a Stouffer step wedge if you are printing with analog negatives, and learn how to control the sensitizer to printing a given range of steps. Working with digital negatives from the get go is problematic because you don't know what to expect in terms of the process exposure scale and the digital negative density range. But if you do begin with digital negatives find a carbon printer with a printer like the one you use and obtain his/her work flow.

3. Use only fixed out photographic paper for your first tests. Yes, it is nice to make carbon prints on sized 100% cotton rag papers, but preparing them correctly is very challenging.

4. Make sure you dry the sensitized tissue long enough. I dry for a minimum of two hours, with a fan, at RH of 45%.

5. Do not soak either the final paper support or the tissue for too long when you make the transfer. This is the number one reason for failure during warm water development.

6. Be mindful that carbon is highly sensitive to temperature and humidity so if you can control these two factors you go a long way to solving many mechanical issues.

Once your learn to control the process carbon is in fact quite predictable. So don't give up on carbon because it seems difficult, but do consider that there is a lot of learn, just as there would be with photo gravure or making a daguerreotype.

Sandy

Sandy, thanks!

I have been using one formula for tissue so far.
I wait for at least 5 days to use the tissue.
I think my problem is mechanical more than which neg I use.
I have problems using both fixed out photo paper and sized watercolor paper. I printed the last image on watercolor paper that I sized with acrylic. The first image is on fixed out photo paper.
In terms of size, it may not sound wise but I prefer to learn with the size image and paper or close to the size I will be ultimately working with. It may lead to more waste and fustration but at least, I'll be doing it once.
Again thanks for the advice.

[sanking]

Sandy, thanks!

I have been using one formula for tissue so far.
I wait for at least 5 days to use the tissue.
I think my problem is mechanical more than which neg I use.
I have problems using both fixed out photo paper and sized watercolor paper. I printed the last image on watercolor paper that I sized with acrylic. The first image is on fixed out photo paper.
In terms of size, it may not sound wise but I prefer to learn with the size image and paper or close to the size I will be ultimately working with. It may lead to more waste and fustration but at least, I'll be doing it once.
Again thanks for the advice.

The mechanical problem could be that the papers you use are absorbing too much moisture from the atmosphere. This would happen in my own environment in South Carolina in the summer, where RH (Relative Humidity) can be on average 60% or higher. If that is the case you are kind of doomed from the start of the mating operation as the paper already has too moisture in it to work. The solutions are, 1) reduce the RH in the room where you store you papers, or 2) reduce the moisture in the paper in a dry mount press before you carry out the mating of the sensitized tissue with the final support. Paper can absorb more moisture from a very high constant ambient RH that it will absorb in two or three minutes in the water.


Sandy

[sanking]

Jim,

There are some advantages to ammonium dichromate because of its much higher solubility in water, about 30% compared to 10% for potassium dichromate. This limits how you can dilute these solutions with acetone or alcohol in spirit sensitizing but this has no practical disadvantage "in most cases". It is a bit more complicated than that, but why create issues when there are none?

I use both AD and PD in spirit sensitizing with both acetone and 90% isopropyl in 1+1 dilutions and have no issues with either AD or PD, or with acetone or 90% isopropyl (or pure ethanol).

One problem may be that acetone is a more defined chemical than alcohol as there are so many different kinds of alcohol. Some types of alcohol do not work. 90% isopropyl works fine, as does pure ethanol. If you want to have a lot of fun in your carbon printing get a big bottle of pure sugar cane ethanol and drink one part of ethanol for every part you use in sensitizing tissue. For large prints you could be very happy at the end of a 4-5 hour printing session.

Sandy

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Sandy, I appreciate the info. My work flow is solid and I rarely have any issues. I have found that drinking while carbon printing spells disaster! Red wine and carbon prints do not mix. On more than one occasion I have ruined a great print by not seeing to well in the yellow light!

[ndg]

After all the advice and encouraging words, I ventured back to carbon. I had 2 pieces of tissue from the last time and decided to print one. The one I picked unfortunately had lots of bubbles from when I poured the glop. I apologize. I used fixed-out photo paper this time. My scanner is MIA so I used my dSLR to capture the print. Again, this is a newbie print so be kind.

http://www.nanadadzie.com/darkroom/pics/En-Garde-01a.jpg

[Emil Schildt]

Since this image, it's been one disaster after another. So much so that I have quit again.
I am trying to gather the courage to plunge back in.

after tonight, I am tempted to ask whether we should make a club...

The "Masters of Disasters"....

[Tri Tran]

I hope this image helps to encourage you guys to continue the Carbon process. This image was taken 2 week ago in Montreal, Canada.

My brother
8x10 Carbon Monochrome
Quartier de Spectacle. Metropolis club back alley, Montreal, Canada 2013.

http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/5348/hcu7.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/15/hcu7.jpg/)

[Tin Can]

A great timeless image, except for that air conditioner...

Seriously nice Tri Tran!

[QUOTE=Tri Tran;1058312]I hope this image helps to encourage you guys to continue the Carbon process. This image was taken 2 week ago in Montreal, Canada.

My brother
8x10 Carbon Monochrome
Quartier de Spectacle. Metropolis club back alley, Montreal, Canada 2013.

[Vaughn]

Two of my latest...but really not new. I just feel embarassed that I have nothing really new to show! Been too busy. But I will have something new to show in the next few weeks, I promise! I have to...I have a show to put them in!

I just bought a house (escrow closes in a month) and hope to have a darkroom set-up there in the coming year. Its a real fixer-upper! Before I start really working on it, I have to decide if I want to have the whole place lifted and a new foundation built under it.

Tri -- wonderful image...you use of the plane of focus adds a lot of visual interest!

[Christo.Stankulov]

Tri Tran this is very beautiful photograph

[Curt]

Two of my latest...but really not new. I just feel embarassed that I have nothing really new to show! Been too busy. But I will have something new to show in the next few weeks, I promise! I have to...I have a show to put them in!

I just bought a house (escrow closes in a month) and hope to have a darkroom set-up there in the coming year. Its a real fixer-upper! Before I start really working on it, I have to decide if I want to have the whole place lifted and a new foundation built under it.

Tri -- wonderful image...you use of the plane of focus adds a lot of visual interest!


I'm still waiting for my Golden Gate print!

As for the house, congratulations. As for the foundation, put a new one in, all that follows will be much easier. Need help?

[Emil Schildt]

I hope this image helps to encourage you guys to continue the Carbon process. This image was taken 2 week ago in Montreal, Canada.



no no no... you have to present a BAD one - really really bad... to show you're human after all... ;)

[ndg]

no no no... you have to present a BAD one - really really bad... to show you're human after all... ;)

No he does not have to. For that he has us, the "Masters of Disaster", remember?

[Vaughn]

I'm still waiting for my Golden Gate print!

As for the house, congratulations. As for the foundation, put a new one in, all that follows will be much easier. Need help?

I am still waiting for the check...;o)

You lift one end, Jim F can lift the other, and I'll slid a new foundation under it. Should be easy...it is under 1000 sq feet!

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=520+Railroad+Avenue+Blue+Lake%2C+CA+95525&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-123.988525!3d40.880276!2m2!1f219.02!2f90!4f75!2m4!1e1!2m2!1sGwgYDfG6cybUNHMLXgv6Xg!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d111422!2d-124.053224!3d40.8454209!3m2!1i1920!2i886!4f13.1&fid=5

Its Kodak yellow, too!

[Tri Tran]

Thank you all for such a nice words.
This alley means a lot to me and my brothers. We grown up with this alley for the last 35 years without a single thing changed. This is the alley right behind our restaurant. My heart stopped every time I revisited this alley . So much memories of my Mom and Dad who are the Restaurant Ong Ca Can founders since 1981.
If you are in the area please come by to visit Montreal the most finest Vietnamese cuisine . The Vietnamese culinary Art and Fine Art photography of your truly.
Vaughn, congrats to your new home. This image was taken with the Cooke Portrait lens with Xray material . Exposed base on instinct no ISO rated.

[Tri Tran]

no no no... you have to present a BAD one - really really bad... to show you're human after all... ;)
No worries my friend. Problem …plenty. Imperfection makes perfection.

What's caused this ?
Tissue poured on unfixed Xray film for tissue support.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/299/zg6c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/zg6c.jpg/)

[Jody_S]

Thank you all for such a nice words.
This alley means a lot to me and my brothers. We grown up with this alley for the last 35 years without a single thing changed. This is the alley right behind our restaurant. My heart stopped every time I revisited this alley . So much memories of my Mom and Dad who are the Restaurant Ong Ca Can founders since 1981.
If you are in the area please come by to visit Montreal the most finest Vietnamese cuisine . The Vietnamese culinary Art and Fine Art photography of your truly.
Vaughn, congrats to your new home. This image was taken with the Cooke Portrait lens with Xray material . Exposed base on instinct no ISO rated.

I had no idea some of your photos were on display in Montreal. I will certainly come by for a visit. I'm presently working in the Plateau, so I will come for lunch sometime in the next week.

[sanking]

no no no... you have to present a BAD one - really really bad... to show you're human after all... ;)

If you have made carbon prints you have definitely made some very BAD ones. But I am not showing those -- ever!! They already caused me enough distress.

Sandy

[Curt]

I am still waiting for the check...;o)

You lift one end, Jim F can lift the other, and I'll slid a new foundation under it. Should be easy...it is under 1000 sq feet!

https://www.google.com/maps/preview#!q=520+Railroad+Avenue+Blue+Lake%2C+CA+95525&data=!1m8!1m3!1d3!2d-123.988525!3d40.880276!2m2!1f219.02!2f90!4f75!2m4!1e1!2m2!1sGwgYDfG6cybUNHMLXgv6Xg!2e0!4m10!1m9!4m8!1m3!1d111422!2d-124.053224!3d40.8454209!3m2!1i1920!2i886!4f13.1&fid=5

Its Kodak yellow, too!

Vaughn, they have tools for that now! That's a large house: 31.62277660168379 X 31.62277660168379.
Seriously though if you need some help on a break let me know. You name it, I can do it.

Curt

[sanking]

"If you are in the area please come by to visit Montreal the most finest Vietnamese cuisine . The Vietnamese culinary Art and Fine Art photography of your truly.
Vaughn, congrats to your new home."

Tri, I love Vietnamese cuisine and would drop by if I could, but Montreal is a long way to go for lunch.
BTW, if you are ever in Toronto you can see some of my carbon prints at Digital Elevator. Just contact Bob Carnie first.

Vaughn, a friend is building a house from concrete slabs. I dropped by the site yesterday and there were some 8-10 of these 10" thick slabs on the ground waiting for the 50 ton crane to set them into position. The slabs weight anywhere from 5000 - 15,000 lbs each. The design, which I believe was by F. L. Wright, is not my cup of tea, but for sure nobody is going break in through the walls.

Sandy

[sanking]

Attached is an image file of another of the 17"X23" carbon prints from my new project. I printed this one before at 12X18" size but the scan of the negative did not capture all of the highlight detail. The original negative was taken in Morelia, Mexico some years ago at what is now called the "Palacio de Clavijero." Film was 5X7 TMY and was exposed and developed for a very, very high subject brightness range. The negative, which has a density range of about log 2.8, was scanned with a drum scanner. The print, like all in my large print project, is warm brown, based on a tissue made with mostly lampblack, but with a touch of umber and violet.

Sandy

[Vaughn]

No worries my friend. Problem …plenty. Imperfection makes perfection.

What's caused this ?
Tissue poured on unfixed Xray film for tissue support...

Carbro prints use the action of the silver of a print to sensitize the tissue -- while not the same chemicals involved, perhaps the presence of the exposed and unexposed silver salts had a hand in the results -- tanning some of thetissue as well as the dicromated gelatin's exposure to UV. The ghost face on the left is wonderful!

[Vaughn]

Vaughn, they have tools for that now! That's a large house: 31.62277660168379 X 31.62277660168379.
Seriously though if you need some help on a break let me know. You name it, I can do it. Curt

You might be sorry you said that! I have great skills as a helper -- not much as the lead. The two 'newer' side extensions are on slabs, the main center portion (pointy roof section) is on pier and post (mostly old redwood bridge beams and other assorted chunks of redwood.) There is a washer/drier hook up in the garage that empties into a hole in the ground -- not a legal grey water system, to say the least, and definitely not suitable for a darkroom. But at least these old building when they were eventually plumbed, all the pipes are on the outside of the house -- easy access!

The place next door is the newly re-opened Logger Bar (less than a year)...owned by a friend of mine. A lot of townpeople pitched in and volunteered to help renovate the bar. The town is re-vitalizing and a lot of artists moving in. The fellow who owns the place a couple places down the street wants to make artist living spaces upstairs and their working studios downstairs. It is a real community of people. Possibility of having a mini-gallery of my work in my living room and all that. The out building on my property might be moved and turned into a guest space where people coming for one-on-one carbon workshops can stay. Possibilities! Exciting!

Sandy...I have a feeling that I do not want to be in a house made of concrete slabs in one of our 7+ earthquakes around here!

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Vaughn, remember I sell concrete so if you need....... Nice images everyone. Yes, we have all had our failures. I've sure had my share but if you are dedicated just work through it and learn. Most people give up to soon. Hang in there Emil! Tri, can't wait to see the print.

[Vaughn]

Jim, I probably will have to create a off-road parking space when I convert the garage to a studio, so might be pouring a slab for that -- But is it not a long way to bring concrete up from Ventura?! LOL!

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Jim, I probably will have to create a off-road parking space when I convert the garage to a studio, so might be pouring a slab for that -- But is it not a long way to bring concrete up from Ventura?! LOL!

The Redwoods call!! Bring concrete for ballast! I'm in!

[Curt]

I see a work party forming up!

[Vaughn]

Hey -- Don't jump the gun! I do not own the house until escrow closes (3 weeks!)

But this will be the darkroom!

[Tri Tran]

Jody, I know Plateau very well. Its our quarter d'artistes . FYI the restaurant is close for Culinary training , from the 12th to 26th of August . We are right next to Metropolis . Please call before you come and don't forget to come up the mezzanine where all my big Platinum prints are displayed. I also have an other Platinum prints collection display at another Restaurant Coba (Japanese Cuisine ) at Laurier , Outremont. The Carbon prints and Wet Plate collection will be display next Spring at these restaurants.
Sandy, I will keep that in mind when I'm in the Toronto area. Please plan to visit Montreal next trip if you can. Very cultural city with a touch of Europe. Great scenery, Great food, Great Art , Great peoples.
Vaughn, the carbon tissue sticks pretty damn hard to the unfixed Xray film emulsion . You can't not even peel it off from the tissue support . The second one went smoothly ,just like butter. I will scan it when it dried.
Jim, I'm in the Carbon transfer mode now , will show you the prints when we meet next time.
Stay healthy , happy printing everyone.

Sandy, I hope you don't mind these attached pictures of my work hang in Montreal . Much appreciated.

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/1497/j3fj.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/23/j3fj.jpg/)

http://img585.imageshack.us/img585/8051/ga9z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/585/ga9z.jpg/)

[Emil Schildt]

No worries my friend. Problem …plenty. Imperfection makes perfection.

What's caused this ?
Tissue poured on unfixed Xray film for tissue support.

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/299/zg6c.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/zg6c.jpg/)

LOVE this!! Go figure...

[Tri Tran]

It was my pleasure to work with my friend Dave today.This print was printed from a glass plate negative. We managed to output some Platinum and Carbon prints . The optical clarity from the glass plate does make a difference compared to the acetate film media. I'm very impressed with the relief and the clarity of both prints processes. Way to go Dave, glass plate with alternative printing is the secret weapon.
Here's a full plate glass Carbon Print from Glass Plate Negative
Glass Plate courtesy of Dave Smith

http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/9856/8v0l.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/844/8v0l.jpg/)

[Tin Can]

Darn nice image.

Someday I'll see the real thing.

Thanks!


Attached is an image file of another of the 17"X23" carbon prints from my new project. I printed this one before at 12X18" size but the scan of the negative did not capture all of the highlight detail. The original negative was taken in Morelia, Mexico some years ago at what is now called the "Palacio de Clavijero." Film was 5X7 TMY and was exposed and developed for a very, very high subject brightness range. The negative, which has a density range of about log 2.8, was scanned with a drum scanner. The print, like all in my large print project, is warm brown, based on a tissue made with mostly lampblack, but with a touch of umber and violet.

Sandy

[Tri Tran]

My new work from the Orchid series. It's hurt that I have to trim a lot of its leaves for this shot. I hope it will bloom for me again next year.

http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/3323/3i0z.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/541/3i0z.jpg/)

Oncidium Orchid
8x10 Carbon Print.
Xray with 480mm Nicola Perscheid.

[Tri Tran]

I 'm pretty sure that you might have seen a lot of Landscape , still life , and Architecture Carbon print, etc. But not as many of the Portrait Carbon transfer.
The Portrait Carbon transfer required a lot a patience. To be able to keep the relief and to clear the highlight on the skin tone ( not the paper white) are the most difficult steps in the portrait Carbon transfer.
Here's My latest work of Carbon print with brush stroke look. A hard to find 11x14 portrait Carbon transferred on the Ilford Bromide paper circa 1964 for the highest relief. Thanks to Jim Fitzgerald for the wonderful gift.

http://img405.imageshack.us/img405/773/svfk.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/405/svfk.jpg/)

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Beautiful portrait and effect. So life like!

[Vaughn]

Nice done, Tri! Brush strokes are a nice effect.

I'll be making a few carbons soon. Have to pour the tissues first!

[Tri Tran]

Thanks Jim. This print will be displayed at our 2nd Annual Meeting .
Vaughn, I'm happy the effects of this image . I think any kind of background like this for portrait will suit well with the brush strokes. I cut the sensitize volume in half to stretch the brush strokes a little. It's been very hot down here to pour the tissue unless you have to set up a tray of full tray of ice and a fan right behind it. My next Carbon transfer will be either on clear or frosted glass . Any thoughts please let me know. Thanks.

[Vaughn]

On glass. Glass must be very clean. Here is an article by a fellow that is putting all sorts of things on glass:

http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/Index/wwGlassPrepPart2.htm

If lit from behind, images on glass will have to be given a lot more exposure. An exposure that is good on paper will have to be at least twice that for glass. Images on paper we see as light passes thru the emulsion, reflects off the paper then back thru the emulsion again to our eyes. On glass and lit from behind, the light passes thru the emulsion only once.

Vaughn

[Tri Tran]

On glass. Glass must be very clean. Here is an article by a fellow that is putting all sorts of things on glass:

http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/Index/wwGlassPrepPart2.htm

If lit from behind, images on glass will have to be given a lot more exposure. An exposure that is good on paper will have to be at least twice that for glass. Images on paper we see as light passes thru the emulsion, reflects off the paper then back thru the emulsion again to our eyes. On glass and lit from behind, the light passes thru the emulsion only once.



Vaughn

Vaughn, thanks for the link. It sounds very interesting. I will get my hands on it soon.

[sanking]

I 'm pretty sure that you might have seen a lot of Landscape , still life , and Architecture Carbon print, etc. But not as many of the Portrait Carbon transfer.
The Portrait Carbon transfer required a lot a patience. To be able to keep the relief and to clear the highlight on the skin tone ( not the paper white) are the most difficult steps in the portrait Carbon transfer.
Here's My latest work of Carbon print with brush stroke look. A hard to find 11x14 portrait Carbon transferred on the Ilford Bromide paper circa 1964 for the highest relief. Thanks to Jim Fitzgerald for the wonderful gift.



Tri, nice image. I avoid artifacts outside the image but must admit that your print surely screams hand-made.

Carbon was used extensively in the late 19th century by many of the top professional printers in Europe. The best carbon portraits I have ever seen were by the French photographer Nadar, at the Harry Ranson Center in Austin at the University of Texas.

Have you done any carbon work on sized watercolor papers? I think some of your portraits would look very good on these type of papers.

Sandy

[Vaughn]

Vaughn, thanks for the link. It sounds very interesting. I will get my hands on it soon.

I once had a carbon issue float off the final support -- so I grabbed a piece of glass, slid it under the emulsion that was floating in the water and drew both out of the water. I moved the image around, getting it as flat as I could. I did not clean the glass at all, yet it stuck very well. I did have a few small ridges where the image did not lay flat on the glass. These ridges are very fragile when dry and can easily be broken off.

Vaughn

[Erik Larsen]

I've done carbon on glass with no subbing, it hasn't come off yet but from what I'm told by the experts is it will eventually. How do glass plate negatives survive so long on glass but not carbon prints?
Erik

[Vaughn]

I've done carbon on glass with no subbing, it hasn't come off yet but from what I'm told by the experts is it will eventually. How do glass plate negatives survive so long on glass but not carbon prints?
Erik

Glass preparation.

[sanking]

I've done carbon on glass with no subbing, it hasn't come off yet but from what I'm told by the experts is it will eventually. How do glass plate negatives survive so long on glass but not carbon prints?
Erik

A carbon print is much thicker than the emulsion of a glass plate. The thicker the carbon print, the more likely it will eventually separate from the glass.

Sandy

[Erik Larsen]

Makes sense I guess, thanks
Erik

[Tri Tran]

Thanks Sandy, appreciated . I still have a lot of difference kind of paper including the water color paper for Platinum print that will last me for years. I have seen some interesting Canson paper in Montreal . They are really nice paper . I will definitely size them for the portrait Carbon work.

Vaughn, it happened to my once just like you described , that's why it came to my mind that I would love to try the Carbon on glass. I wish I had the glass right at time.

I coated my Ambrotype with Albumen before I poured the Collodion . It bonds really well so my guess it should be fine . I use Bon Ami cleanser for glass and it works like a charm.
Anything on glass , I guess we have to seal the image in some way? I use lacquer spray on my Ambrotype plates just like the way that I made my Portrait Canvas transfer the old fashion way.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Canson paper

Tri, Canson papers have worked very well for me.

[Vaughn]

Any finding of fine cracking of the emulsion when it is on glass as happens when it is on metal?

Love the look of carbons on stainless and copper but the cracking problem makes it a losing proposition.

On metal, some folks have had better luck putting a layer of polyeuothene (bad spelling) on the metal -- it helps moderate the shrinking and expansion the metal does relative to the gelatin layer.

[sanking]

Does "moderate" mean the carbon emulsion does not crack at all or is it just reduced?

As far as I can determine a carbon emulsion on polyurethane base has a mechanical, not chemical bond. If that is indeed the case a carbon print on any metal surface, or glass, subbed with polyurethane is not stable and will eventually come off. I don't state this as fact but opinion. However, I did stress test carbon prints with various subbing methods (very thin gelatin coating, acrylic coating, polyurethane, etc.) on white aluminum and Dibond, and all of the tests eventually failed with significant change in temperature and/or RH.

Sandy

[Tri Tran]

Tri, Canson papers have worked very well for me.
Which one did you use ? What's the GSM and how's the relief on average 1.4 to 1.6 Neg DR? Thanks.

[imagedowser]

Tri, Saw your comment on "..hope the orchard blooms for me next year" If you haven't seen it, get a copy of The Secret Life Of Plants, by Peter Thompson and Christopher Bird. If you care as deeply as I think you do, it (the orchard) will do anything you want it (them) to do... from one plant freak to another.... Bill PS. Love your work. PPS. Eddie's lovely wife has the green thumb working for her too.

[Tri Tran]

Tri, Saw your comment on "..hope the orchard blooms for me next year" If you haven't seen it, get a copy of The Secret Life Of Plants, by Peter Thompson and Christopher Bird. If you care as deeply as I think you do, it (the orchard) will do anything you want it (them) to do... from one plant freak to another.... Bill PS. Love your work. PPS. Eddie's lovely wife has the green thumb working for her too.

Thanks for your recommendation. That sounds like a very interesting book. It might sounds a little odd but I do talk to my Orchids from time to time . Hope to have more of my Orchid work when they are in season.

[Tri Tran]

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/565/35p4.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/208/35p4.jpg/)

This image I have sold multiple time. This is the one of the print that Micheal Fatali http://fatali.com/ has purchase. The print has great texture of the Black Oak and the relief that you can't imagine .The image was transferred with home made Carbon base tissue 2mm thick mixed using Japanese hand grind Calligraphy pigment to create the tone for this image. I reprint this image today for our 2nd South California Large and Ultra Large format Show coming up in October.

Black Oak, Yosemite
8x10 Carbon transfer

[Tin Can]

Tri Tran, that is indeed a very nice image, congratulations on multiple sales.

I really can understand, your Mumbo Jumbo!

Visually, of course.





This image I have sold multiple time. This is the one of the print that Micheal Fatali http://fatali.com/ has purchase. The print has great texture of the Black Oak and the relief that you can't imagine .The image was transferred with home made Carbon base tissue 2mm thick mixed using Japanese hand grind Calligraphy pigment to create the tone for this image. I reprint this image today for our 2nd South California Large and Ultra Large format Show coming up in October.

Black Oak, Yosemite
8x10 Carbon transfer

[Vaughn]

Well, I am pouring nine 14x17 tissues tonight (not for 14x17 negatives, tho!). So hopefully I'll have some new images in about 4 or 5 days to share!

[Tri Tran]

Vaughn, look forward to see your new work.
Here's my from today my new Japanese Calligraphy pigments loaded . The print has less relief as expected but the sheen look just like the Daguerre type if you look at an angle.

http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9972/jxvy.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/13/jxvy.jpg/)

Natalie
8x10 with 15 in Hermagis Eidoscope
Carbon Tranfer print

[Tri Tran]

Anyone doing carbon prints from wet plate glass negatives?

Please check my post #115 in this threat. What would you like to know about it?

[windij]

108993

"Joy"

Homemade tissue
Printed on yupo
15" jamin darlot petzval
HP5+ in Pyrocat HD
1/2 sec exposure (approx)

[Andrew O'Neill]

Very nice.

[Domingo A. Siliceo]

Sweet and realy beautiful. Insane envy...



[...]
"Joy"
[...]

[windij]

Thanks Andrew and Domingo. The developing bath was a bit hot, resulted in some uneven development in the upper right corner. Normally I don't find yupo to be a pleasant final support, mostly I just use it for test prints and tissue support, but for soft portraits it's weakly transparent property can really make it glow.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Jason, I'm loving these. Hope to see more and congratulations on your success!

[sanking]

I started a thread in the Lounge called Carbon Transfer Prints. If you are currently making carbon prints with digital and/or film originals that don't qualify as large format please share your images in that thread. I put one in there today called Galician Angel, and plan to add more soon.

Sandy

[D-tach]

Another one from the workshop - too bad I was too impatient and didn't rinse it enough. Still full of pigment in the white parts.
And due to too high vaccuum pressure in the Eskofot plateburner there are some weird smearing spots and you can see the pattern of the cloth where it's pressed against but what the heck :)

http://Tomkeymeulen.zenfolio.com/img/s10/v108/p189394975-5.jpg

image size 16x20cm on fixed out baryta fiber - digital negative from a 4x5" Efke 25 negative

[mathieu Bauwens]

Hey Tom, where did you find the Carbon workshop, in Belgium ?

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I know Philippe Berger teaches in Belgium.

[D-tach]

Hi Mathieu, I did it in Middelburg in the Netherlands - only 1h15 driving from Aalst. Kees Brandenburg is the teacher, here is his website. http://polychrome.nl/. 1 march there is another day where we learn to prepare the materials and coat our own pigmentpapers and probably get to do another print. It's fun! I think there are still a few places available. He first used to give this workshop first but then you couldn't print from the first day so now he changed it: first a 2 day workshop with an introduction and then you go straight to making your own prints and 2 weeks after a one day workshop where you learn to prepare everything.

[mathieu Bauwens]

Ok Thanks.

I found Philippe Berger, too. Thank you Jim

[TheToadMen]

Hi Mathieu, I did it in Middelburg in the Netherlands - only 1h15 driving from Aalst. Kees Brandenburg is the teacher, here is his website. http://polychrome.nl/. 1 march there is another day where we learn to prepare the materials and coat our own pigmentpapers and probably get to do another print. It's fun! I think there are still a few places available. He first used to give this workshop first but then you couldn't print from the first day so now he changed it: first a 2 day workshop with an introduction and then you go straight to making your own prints and 2 weeks after a one day workshop where you learn to prepare everything.

I followed several alt-photo techniques workshops at Kees in Middelburg. It is always on weekends and fun to do. And he is good at carbon printing as well.
Did you know that Erwin Olaf learned and made his prints at Kees his studio?

Kees also speaks fluently English.
I can recommend a workshop in Middelburg, a nice place to stay for a short holiday too!

Bert from Holland
Http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl

[D-tach]

I followed several alt-photo techniques workshops at Kees in Middelburg. It is always on weekends and fun to do. And he is good at carbon printing as well.
Did you know that Erwin Olaf learned and made his prints at Kees his studio?

Kees also speaks fluently English.
I can recommend a workshop in Middelburg, a nice place to stay for a short holiday too!

Bert from Holland
Http://thetoadmen.blogspot.nl

Yes, I saw a few testprints of Erwin Olaf during the workshop - very nice!

[windij]

158831

15 1/2" Velostigmat

158833

240mm g-claron

158834

210mm Dagor

Carbon prints on Arches Platine, gelatin or albumen sized. HP5 Negatives were developed in Pyrocat HD.

[Andrew O'Neill]

Very nice, windij! Good job getting HP5 to work in Carbon.

[windij]

Thanks Andrew. The HP5-Pyrocat combo works pretty well, the only down side is the longer development time required to obtain a suitable DR for carbon compared to fp4. I typically tray develop so 20+ min development times are not uncommon for subjects with lower SBR.

[Vaughn]

Wonderful work! Nice job with the HP5+, also!

[windij]

Thanks Vaughn! I actually made a mistake in my original post, the first print is on fixed out Ilford semi-mat paper not sized Arches. The second and third prints are on gelatine and albumen sized arches platine, respectively.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I use home brew D-19 diluted 1+1. I found increased time in Pyrocat-HD raised the base+fog too much with HP5. How long are your carbon exposures and under which light do you use?

[windij]

I use home brew D-19 diluted 1+1. I found increased time in Pyrocat-HD raised the base+fog too much with HP5. How long are your carbon exposures and under which light do you use?

I have a 400 watt HID Metal Halide light in an aluminum ballast housing hanging from my darkroom ceiling. I print 8x10 carbons about 12" from the light cooled with a fan. My exposure times are typically around 6-8 minutes. I make my own tissue and spirit sensitize with a foam roller.

[Rick A]

Double transfer
5x7 in camera negative on MXR xray film
slight screw up taping the negative to the tissue (at 1:00 AM Christmas morning)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/503/31778925971_164651b69f_z_d.jpg

[Andrew O'Neill]

I see what appear to be blisters, as well as pull marks. Did you double transfer to avoid reversed image?

[Rick A]

I see what appear to be blisters, as well as pull marks. Did you double transfer to avoid reversed image?

Yes, the lettering on the sign of a friends building. I really want to get this down, it's making me crazy. The second transfer is a pain to get. I've been practicing with a spare negative of the scene, I'm holding the good one until I get it worked out, just in case something happens to this negative(which it already has-specks above the pole).

[Andrew O'Neill]

I hope you nail it!