Water Chillers - cold water too warm for my processes

[Dan Dozer]

So - I live in the Desert South west and this time of year is always a challenge dealing with the temperature of the ground water. It normally only gets down to about 85 degrees or so. For most of my processes, this doesn't seem to present a problem. For smaller quantities of water, I just use ice to cool down my solutions. However, more recently, I'm trying out some things with Liquid Light and it seems that wash water that warm softens the liquid light emulsion making it not really workable.

Have any of you out there come up with an economical way to deal with this? I'm open to some sort of small water chiller, but the only thing I've found so far is over $600 and probably too big for my darkroom.

[Jim Noel]

Rather than using running water for washing, use five one minute soaks, This way you can keep a container of water chilled, with ice, or other means, and just dip out enough to put in the wash tray. The method works well, uses less water, and temperature can be maintained.

[Leigh]

You might be able to find a used drinking fountain. Dissect it and keep what you need.
This could be mounted outside the darkroom (assuming suitable space is available).

- Leigh

[Tin Can]

Leigh has a good idea.

Also how about those beer cooling rigs that have coils in an ice slurry? Add an aquarium or garden pool pump. Even gravity, put a beer cooler rig high on the wall, add toilet float and let it come to you.

And I thought Chicago water was hot when it passes 72 degrees next week. It was exactly 68 for over a month.

[lenser]

What about the coolers that are also chillers? Could you rig one of those up with some kind of inverter and keep several bottles of water cooled to your temperature needs? Love the water fountain idea.

[jon.oman]

I've been thinking of one of the 5 cubic foot freezers you can buy at Best Buy for about $150.00. Run a coil of copper tubing inside, attach a cold water inlet, and outlet. Add bags of ice to take up the space, and then run water through it. Only problem is keeping the water line from freezing up. Maybe a valve to drain it when not in use?

The temp of my cold water is now better than 80 degrees F. I live near Charleston, South Carolina.

[Tin Can]

College boys buy a cheap dorm fridge, not a freezer and make a Keg-A-Rator. Put a keg or big water bottle inside cut holes, seal holes and bingo. I think a freezer is overkill and will freeze the water.

This brings back bad memories of my Dyno lab's boss and his great ideas.

In summer our red hot engine exhaust pipes would heat the room past out 180F degree safe point. He would order us to wrap an entire 20 foot V-8 exhaust header and out pipe in copper tubing, close and tight then run cold water through that. It worked, but extremely difficult to install, did not last 100 hours and sprung leaks like crazy.

[Nathan Potter]

I used to keep a 50 gal. poly tank of filtered water on a shelf high up toward the darkroom ceiling. Overnight it would cool down to the darkroom temperature (70 degrees F). Then I would simply use that cooled water by gravity feed as mix and wash water. When done I would refill so as to be ready for the next session.

Now I use a high capacity Peltier thermoelectric cooler driven by a 20 amp DC supply. Essentially an inline, on demand cooler. I adjust all my processing to be 75 degrees F. or higher.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Arne Croell]

I've been thinking of one of the 5 cubic foot freezers you can buy at Best Buy for about $150.00. Run a coil of copper tubing inside, attach a cold water inlet, and outlet. Add bags of ice to take up the space, and then run water through it. Only problem is keeping the water line from freezing up. Maybe a valve to drain it when not in use?

The temp of my cold water is now better than 80 degrees F. I live near Charleston, South Carolina.
I have been doing a similar, even more low-tech solution for running my Jobo at 75F in Alabama. I put a whole coil of copper tubing in a 5 gallon bucket filled with ice AND water (that way nothing freezes in the line). That copper tubing is connected to the "cold" water line on one end and the Jobo cold water inlet on the other, with quick connectors on each side. From time to time I have to fill up the ice, but I have been running the system for 5-6h straight.

[gleaf]

If you want to build a Peltier heat exchanger I have 3 or 4, 12 vdc fridgichips in a padded envelope new never used.
You are welcome to them. If I remember right they are
Melcor - CP1.0-127-06L 3A Peltier Module - 28U035
Super Peltier Junction, Melcor type CP1.0-127-06L. Characteristics :
I max.: 3A, delta T max.: 149°F voltage: 15.4V, Q max.: 25.7W, Dimensions: 1.2" x 1.2" x 0.14", weight: 0.42oz.

They might be the 6 amp 1.4 size bigger brother but I don't think so.

[Tin Can]

I suppose those are like the chips in solid state camping/car coolers?

My Coleman will drop or raise ambient 40 degrees F.

Maybe I will hack the actually useless cooler.


If you want to build a Peltier heat exchanger I have 3 or 4, 12 vdc fridgichips in a padded envelope new never used.
You are welcome to them. If I remember right they are
Melcor - CP1.0-127-06L 3A Peltier Module - 28U035
Super Peltier Junction, Melcor type CP1.0-127-06L. Characteristics :
I max.: 3A, delta T max.: 149°F voltage: 15.4V, Q max.: 25.7W, Dimensions: 1.2" x 1.2" x 0.14", weight: 0.42oz.

They might be the 6 amp 1.4 size bigger brother but I don't think so.

[Robert Langham]

I can get 98F here in the summer in Tyler. Water line must run under street for quite a distance. Can't print in the summer months.

99441

[bigdog]

You can basically copy a keg chiller.

1) Picnic cooler
2) A copper coil placed inside the cooler
(such as: http://www.amazon.com/Copper-Immersion-Chiller-Length-Drain/dp/B007ZDIIOA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375065798&sr=8-2&keywords=copper+coil+immersion+chiller)
3) Fittings at both ends of the coil

Fill the cooler with ice water. The temp of the water coming out of the coil will depend on the flow rate. Run the water slow enough and it'll come out pretty close to freezing. Run it faster for less chilling. You'll need to add ice every so often. Instead of adding ice cubes use plastic bottles full of water that you freeze. Easy to replace when they've melted and they can then go back into the freezer to refreeze.

[Dan Dozer]

You can basically copy a keg chiller.

1) Picnic cooler
2) A copper coil placed inside the cooler
(such as: http://www.amazon.com/Copper-Immersion-Chiller-Length-Drain/dp/B007ZDIIOA/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1375065798&sr=8-2&keywords=copper+coil+immersion+chiller)
3) Fittings at both ends of the coil

Fill the cooler with ice water. The temp of the water coming out of the coil will depend on the flow rate. Run the water slow enough and it'll come out pretty close to freezing. Run it faster for less chilling. You'll need to add ice every so often. Instead of adding ice cubes use plastic bottles full of water that you freeze. Easy to replace when they've melted and they can then go back into the freezer to refreeze.

Lots of great ideas guys, thanks a million. I like this low tech approach. I really only need to get my water down to about 65 - 70 degrees or so and I don't think that will be very difficult. Challenge is to find a space next to my darkroom sink for the "cooler".

[Drew Wiley]

It doesn't take much extra space to make a water jacket around a tray or whatever in the sink. A slightly oversized tray will work. Use those blue ice paks like in a
picnic cooler. Make the water just a tad too cold, then leave a tiny drip of tap water flow into the water jacket for the correct working temp. Works best when the
inside tray is stainless steel (transfers temp quickly) and the outer water jacket is plastic (insulates temp).

[photobymike]

i bought a unit designed to chill a laser... cost more to ship than the cost. was so good it would or could clog up with ice. i ran it in a bath in a giant cooler

[Nathan Potter]

If you want to build a Peltier heat exchanger I have 3 or 4, 12 vdc fridgichips in a padded envelope new never used.
You are welcome to them. If I remember right they are
Melcor - CP1.0-127-06L 3A Peltier Module - 28U035
Super Peltier Junction, Melcor type CP1.0-127-06L. Characteristics :
I max.: 3A, delta T max.: 149°F voltage: 15.4V, Q max.: 25.7W, Dimensions: 1.2" x 1.2" x 0.14", weight: 0.42oz.

They might be the 6 amp 1.4 size bigger brother but I don't think so.

The kind of Peltier coolers found in the Coleman type portable coolers have a pitifully small caloric cooling capacity and not useful for cooling water greater than -5 degrees F. or so at any appreciable flow rate. The Peltier cooler I use runs at 24 volts DC and 20 amps (500W) and is marginally useful above incoming water of 85 degrees F. at about 2 liters per minute flow. OTOH running it closed loop with an accurate temperature sensor provides really tight temperature control for color work.

Nate Potter, Austin TX.

[Michael Graves]

On my Jobo CPA, I have found a simple trick that works. Before you do this the first time, you need to doink around a for a while before you the temperature right, because the temp dial become a mere guideline. But I freeze a bottle of water and slide it down into the water bath. After a few minutes the temperature stabilizes and I can develop. If the water is particularly warm, I might have to use two frozen bottles, but in the wilds of New England summer usually falls on or about July 29. I chomping at the bit to see if we get a second day.

[Jim Andrada]

Never had much problem when I lived in Boston because the pipes are several feet underground to keep them from freezing in the winter, and it never gets terribly hot (it's the humidity!)

In Tucson they're SUPPOSED to put the water pipes 12 inches underground but... I think this past June we were at or over 100 every day of the month and had a couple of 110+ days in July and the water temp was easily 90 at night - maybe a bit more on occasion.

I used the "frozen water bottle in the Jobo" trick, but now I freeze at least three bottles and just in case I have a bag of ice at the ready.

[Cletus]

I've been struggling and debating this 35 degree cold water problem for a couple years now, I live in Dallas. Leigh made the most practical suggestion early on in this post - get a small water chiller, such as from a drinking fountain and mount it in your cold water line. If you look on Fleebay you'll find several economical options for small size chillers that should do the trick without taking up too much space.

IMO, the only essential calculation you need will be your minimum degrees/liters/minute requirement, which will determine the capacity (and pretty much also the size) of the cooler/chiller you'll need to seek out. I may finally be looking at getting mine installed into my darkroom soon and if I do (and if it works properly) I'll post some details....

[Luis-F-S]

I got fed up with too warm water when the emulsion basically melted away from my 4x5 sheet film. I then bought an Elkay ERW32 chiller which is normally used for 3 remote drinking fountains. This chiller is water cooled and can provide 32 GPH of 50 degree water, more than enough for LF film development.

[bigdog]

1) Picnic cooler
2) A copper coil placed inside the cooler
3) Fittings at both ends of the coil

Fill the cooler with ice water. The temp of the water coming out of the coil will depend on the flow rate. Run the water slow enough and it'll come out pretty close to freezing. Run it faster for less chilling. You'll need to add ice every so often. Instead of adding ice cubes use plastic bottles full of water that you freeze. Easy to replace when they've melted and they can then go back into the freezer to refreeze.


Lots of great ideas guys, thanks a million. I like this low tech approach. I really only need to get my water down to about 65 - 70 degrees or so and I don't think that will be very difficult.

Follow up time. Did you do this Dan, and did it work?

Now, for the rest of you: would the "reverse" work? I.E.: ground water is coming out at about 50F right now, and I would prefer it up at 60F or more (for print washing). If I used the same chiller tech, but replaced the ice with say, an aquarium heater, would that add a few degrees to the water?

[Luis-F-S]

Without being cynical, why would someone want to try that instead of using a house water heater? An aquarium heater? Just how long would you want to wait for that water to heat up? The reason for doing the coil in ice chiller is because electric chillers are rare in home darkrooms. They're not even that expensive, you can get on on the Bay for less than the cost of a decent lens. House water heaters are neither.

[bigdog]

Without being cynical, why would someone want to try that instead of using a house water heater?...The reason for doing the coil in ice chiller is because electric chillers are rare in home darkrooms.

A "house water heater" is equally rare in my darkroom - there isn't one.


An aquarium heater? Just how long would you want to wait for that water to heat up?

Without being cynical, I suppose long enough ...