HP5+ in HC-110 [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Randy

27-Jul-2013, 07:52

I just got a 100 sheet box of 4X5 to shoot hand-held in my new-to-me Speed Graphic. I pretty much use HC-110 exclusively due to cost. If anyone can share their experiences (ISO setting, dilutions, dev. times) with this film / dev. combination, I would appreciate it. I will be developing in trays.

Ari

27-Jul-2013, 08:52

photobymike

27-Jul-2013, 09:34

Hey randy ....tell us how it turns out.... just got a box of HP+ myself.... considering Tmax RS or HC110 in a jobo... Kodak is getting to expensive

Jerry Bodine

27-Jul-2013, 10:08

PM sent.

Randy

27-Jul-2013, 10:09

Ari, thanks for the starting point. Will shoot a few sheets this weekend and see how it goes and let yall know.

Wayne

27-Jul-2013, 13:22

EI 200, 1+39, 8.25 minutes at 68 F in trays

mike rosenlof

3-Aug-2013, 20:57

e.i. 200, 1:50, 10 minutes continuous rotation, sorta like btzs, 500ml of developer for 4 sheets of 4x5 / 1 roll of 120 or 36 exp 35mm. for printing on a diffusion enlarger

Regular Rod

4-Aug-2013, 04:05

Ari

4-Aug-2013, 04:53

Have you considered using OBSIDIAN AQUA instead of HC110? It is much less money for much better negatives...

Better in what way? Can you show some examples?

RHITMrB

5-Aug-2013, 00:04

Randy,
I don't use HP5 much, but when I do, it's EI 320, dilution H at 7,5 minutes and 21˚C (or 70˚F).
Use this only as a starting point, though, because I process in a rotating Jobo drum; probably add 15%-25% development time if using trays.

To add to this: I use a MOD54 in my Paterson tank with two inversions every minute. I shoot at box speed and develop with dilution H for 12 minutes at 70˚F.

Regular Rod

5-Aug-2013, 01:15

Have you considered using OBSIDIAN AQUA instead of HC110? It is much less money for much better negatives...

RR

Better in what way? Can you show some examples?

Yes certainly, the film speed of 400 ISO is still maintained (no need to overexpose by rating it at 320, 200 etc.), the contrast is better, the negatives are sharper and the range of tones possible is greater than the results from negatives developed in HC110. OBSIDIAN AQUA costs less to make up, lasts indefinitely (as does HC110) and at 1:500 standard dilution is very economical in use.

Here is an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/regular_rod/8631193635/in/photostream

RR

LuisR

5-Aug-2013, 17:29

Yes certainly, the film speed of 400 ISO is still maintained (no need to overexpose by rating it at 320, 200 etc.), the contrast is better, the negatives are sharper and the range of tones possible is greater than the results from negatives developed in HC110. OBSIDIAN AQUA costs less to make up, lasts indefinitely (as does HC110) and at 1:500 standard dilution is very economical in use.

Here is an example: http://www.flickr.com/photos/regular_rod/8631193635/in/photostream

RR

Is Obsidian Aqua commercially available as a premixed developer or is it strictly a brew-your-own basis? Thanks.

Regular Rod

5-Aug-2013, 18:16

Is Obsidian Aqua commercially available as a premixed developer or is it strictly a brew-your-own basis? Thanks.

It is a recipe that you mix yourself. It is very easy to make up, (or I wouldn't be able to use it).

Check this out including the comments. Jay the inventor of OBSIDIAN AQUA is a very generous man with his time and proved very helpful to me when I started out using it. http://hypercatacutancedeveloper.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/obsidian-aqua.html

Here are the quantities I use when I make up the stock solutions and the dilutions for working solutions:

OBSIDIAN AQUA

Solution A
Distilled Water - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 300 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - -350 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - -700 ml
Sodium Metabisulphite - - - - - - - - - - 8 g - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 10 g - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 20 g
Catechol - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 100 g - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 125 g - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 250 g
Distilled Water to make - - - - - - - - - 400 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -500 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 litre

Solution B (Concentrate)
Distilled Water - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4 litres
Sodium Carbonate Anhydrous - - - - - 1 kilo
Distilled Water to make - - - - - - - - - 5 litres

Working Solution
Solution A - - - - - - - - - - - 1 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -1.2 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 ml
Solution B - - - - - - - - - - - 12.5 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - -15 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - 25 ml
Tap Water to make - - - - - -500 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - 600 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - -1 litre

"Try 12 minutes @ 20 deg C semi-stand to start with..." (this is my N time and routine, for all films, you can even develop different emulsion films together in the same tank/tray you don't need different times for different emulsions, you will still need to determine the time that suits your work best, just as you do with any developer the first few times you use it...)

RR

Ari

5-Aug-2013, 18:21

Rod, thank you for the explanation, the link, and you have a great little set of photos.

Regular Rod

5-Aug-2013, 18:40

My Pleasure and thank you too. I've just edited the post above to include the quantities I make up, usually I go for the 400ml Solution A ...

RR

selmslie

7-Aug-2013, 06:14

Hey randy ....tell us how it turns out.... just got a box of HP+ myself.... considering Tmax RS or HC110 in a jobo... Kodak is getting to expensive
I just finished a comparison of developers for 4x5 FP4+ in a tray, one sheet at a time in 500ml. I tried HC110-B and H, Rodinal 1+50 and T-Max 1+4. All had similar grain, sharpness and contrast.

Only the Tmax came out a little soft - just as well since it would have also been the most expensive to use.

I would expect HP5+ to be only slightly grainier.

photobymike

7-Aug-2013, 06:37

selmslie ...was that tmax regular or was it tmax rs? you tested? The dilution of any developer has a big effect on grain and sharpness perception.

StoneNYC

7-Aug-2013, 06:58

It is a recipe that you mix yourself. It is very easy to make up, (or I wouldn't be able to use it).

Check this out including the comments. Jay the inventor of OBSIDIAN AQUA is a very generous man with his time and proved very helpful to me when I started out using it. http://hypercatacutancedeveloper.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/obsidian-aqua.html

Here are the quantities I use when I make up the stock solutions and the dilutions for working solutions:

OBSIDIAN AQUA

Solution A
Distilled Water - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 300 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - -350 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - -700 ml
Sodium Metabisulphite - - - - - - - - - - 8 g - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 10 g - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 20 g
Catechol - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 100 g - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 125 g - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 250 g
Distilled Water to make - - - - - - - - - 400 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -500 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - 1 litre

Solution B (Concentrate)
Distilled Water - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - 4 litres
Sodium Carbonate Anhydrous - - - - - 1 kilo
Distilled Water to make - - - - - - - - - 5 litres

Working Solution
Solution A - - - - - - - - - - - 1 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -1.2 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - 2 ml
Solution B - - - - - - - - - - - 12.5 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - -15 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - 25 ml
Tap Water to make - - - - - -500 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - - 600 ml - - - - - - - - - - - - -1 litre

"Try 12 minutes @ 20 deg C semi-stand to start with..." (this is my N time and routine, for all films, you can even develop different emulsion films together in the same tank/tray you don't need different times for different emulsions, you will still need to determine the time that suits your work best, just as you do with any developer the first few times you use it...)

RR

You've posted this a few places, are you sure YOU'RE not the inventor haha, I've never heard anyone talk about this except you haha :)

Ken Lee

7-Aug-2013, 07:18

While we're on the subject, I'd be pleased to see it give us a film speed of 400 with HP5+. I notice that the examples referenced here were made with stand development (which should increase film speed over normal development). Even so, on my calibrated monitor many of those images look underexposed and overdeveloped.

h2oman

7-Aug-2013, 07:57

Ken,

I don't ask to be argumentative - what does one see that indicates underexposure and overdeveloped? I'm trying to refine my exposure and development times, and I'm not really sure what to look for. I scan my film, and often the entire histogram lies in the acceptable range even for different EIs. I'm thinking that maybe when I rate the film slower I get a more gradual rise at the low end, though. I'm interested in what to look for in both a histogram when scanning and a developed image.

Ken Lee

7-Aug-2013, 08:33

Regular Rod

7-Aug-2013, 12:17

You've posted this a few places, are you sure YOU'RE not the inventor haha, I've never heard anyone talk about this except you haha :)

Goodness me! No I am not the inventor and I have never met him either, but I do like two of his developers very much indeed. This one, OBSIDIAN AQUA, and another called 510-PYRO.

RR

Regular Rod

7-Aug-2013, 13:45

The image Garden Table in the Snow (http://www.flickr.com/photos/regular_rod/8595609850/in/photostream/) is a good example of what strikes me as underexposure and over development. The low values are without texture, and so is the snow, even though the image was made on a gray day: the softest lighting we can get.

Perhaps the photographer adjusted the image in scanning or in his photo-editor to look that way - and such things are a matter of taste - but when we choose photos to show off a film/developer combination, such interpretations can convey a misleading impression.

Hi Ken

That photograph, although the results were what I wanted at the time, was not made with either HP5 Plus or OBSIDIAN AQUA.

The one I offered in response to Ari's request for an example of HP5 Plus with OBSIDIAN AQUA (http://www.flickr.com/photos/regular_rod/8631193635/in/photostream), I have to admit, was not on large format being only on 120, but I find ILFORD films' emulsions to be pretty consistent across the various film sizes they supply and it shows reasonably well how tiny the grain is and how sharp the results are from OBSIDIAN AQUA even when used on a high speed film like HP5 Plus. None of my images are really suitable specifically for showing off any film/developer combination. They were not made for that purpose. At best they might be used to give a clue as to the possibilities of the "combination" in truth they are no more than what I manage to obtain when making a photograph with those materials.

RR

Ken Lee

7-Aug-2013, 14:57

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/diafinetest.jpg

Here's a series of test shots I made to investigate the film speed of Kodak TMY developed in Diafine. It's not a sensitometric test, but rather an "empirical" test where I shot a scene at 4 different ISOs. The scene contains a diverse collection of objects with recognizable tones. Most of them are gray, white, and black, so there's little doubt about how they should look in black and white.

After scanning according to the methods outlined in this article (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/scanning.php), it becomes pretty easy to choose the film speed which gives the most life-like results and feels most like light.

I chose the shot on the lower-right: ISO 200, particularly for how the low and middle values are rendered. The Epson scanner I use, gives us an N-1 correction unless we boost contrast, and Diafine is a compensating developer. Once that negative gets a small boost of contrast, it's just right. A speed of 250 or 275 might really nail it, but that's more precision than I care to worry about.

My BTZS tests with TMY in Pyrocat HDC give me the same film speed, and those match what I get with HP5+ in Pyrocat HD, D-76 and D-23. I'm not alone: there are many who shoot at 1/2 the manufacturer's recommended speed: it's a decades-old idea by now.

selmslie

7-Aug-2013, 16:12

selmslie ...was that tmax regular or was it tmax rs? you tested? The dilution of any developer has a big effect on grain and sharpness perception.
It was TMax regular, 5:50 at 75F. 100ml of TMax for 1 sheet of 4x5 was a bit extravagant.

Henricus

5-Oct-2013, 20:26

EI 200, 1+39, 8.25 minutes at 68 F in trays

Wayne,
Could you please share some pics and what agitation scheme you use? I was considering trying this with a long exposure night shoot. ISO 200, exposed for 2 sec at f8 on my Graphic using my Xenar 135/4.7 I did some 35mm tests where I pushed arista premium to 3200 and like the exposure setting (@3200 1/8 sec @ f8), but wanted to try the HP5+ @ iso 200 on a 4x5. I was hoping to get less grain and a bigger negative for this design.

103062

Thanks,

gsinico

6-Nov-2013, 13:58

My jobo times for HP+ in sol. B HC110 is about 8' at 20°Celsius.
i rate hp5+ at about 250 ISO for a N develop.
rotary developing times.
it works for 4'x5' sheets.

cheers

Joseph O'Neil

7-Nov-2013, 08:02

Here is my setting, for either HP5 or Tri-x and HC-100

A) expose Tri-x and/or HP5 at 200 ASA/ISO

1) load film in rotary drum, I use a Jobo drum myself
2) presoak in room temp water from the tap
3) mix 10ml of PURE syrup from the HC-110 bottle into 600ml of distilled (not tap) water, 70F, mix well
4) dump presoak water, pour in developing solution
5) on a rotary base, run for a starting time of ten minutes. This will take some experimentation, sometimes I go 9 minutes, sometimes I go 11 minutes - all depends on your exposure, what you want to do with it, etc, etc.
6) dump developer, rinse twice with tap water for a minute
7) pour in fix - i use Hypam - maybe 3-4 minutes.
8) dump, rinse tap water for a minute
9) hypo elimintaor for a minute, place on rotary base to do so
10) wash as per regular
11) hang to dry, but as i do so, I mist both sides of my negs with a dollar store hand sprayer bottle that has distilled water and tiny, tiny, tiny bit of kodak hypo-flo

Let dry overnight, put in protective sleeves, put them on the light table, pick one that makes you think "damn, I'm good", place that negative in enlarger, and then realize "crap, I blow chunks, this is gonna take some work."

:)

good luck

Jerry Bodine

11-Nov-2013, 15:31

Here are the results of my tests of HP5+ in HC-110. Using a Stouffer 31-step wedge in camera on 4x5 film, I first determined the film speed for .10 above fb+fog (EI 200). Then determined normal (N) dev time, then proceeded to N+1 / N+2 / N-1 / N-2 / N-3 / N-4 / max Nminus (highly diluted semi-stand development). Here (https://picasaweb.google.com/115154402403137548753/TestResultsHP5HC110?authkey=Gv1sRgCP3jqv6Dt_XcvgE#5945126857534083538) are four pages, the first is the tabulated summary of all test results, then three pages of curve plots.

Wayne

11-Nov-2013, 17:38

I'm sorry Henricus, I didn't see your post until today. Unfortunately I don't have any scans, as I am a terrible scanner. I'm also a pretty bad black and white photographer, so they probably won't inspire you. But when I'm too borke to do color, I have to do something!

I came up with this system after doing some testing following the procedure outlined in View Camera some years back, and it gave me very satisfactory results. I use a water bath first and agitate about 30 seconds initially in the developer (two quick rotations through the stack), then go through the stack of 6 every 30 seconds or so. If I only have 4 or 5, I slow down accordingly.

Not that it's going to help you 4 months later.

Wayne,
Could you please share some pics and what agitation scheme you use? I was considering trying this with a long exposure night shoot. ISO 200, exposed for 2 sec at f8 on my Graphic using my Xenar 135/4.7 I did some 35mm tests where I pushed arista premium to 3200 and like the exposure setting (@3200 1/8 sec @ f8), but wanted to try the HP5+ @ iso 200 on a 4x5. I was hoping to get less grain and a bigger negative for this design.

103062

Thanks,

Wayne

11-Nov-2013, 17:39

I don't know what borke means, but I like it. Sometimes I just feel borke.

Broke.

StoneNYC

11-Nov-2013, 18:19

I don't know what borke means, but I like it. Sometimes I just feel borke.

Broke.

Not sure I Grok the fullness of it... ;)

[literary reference]

Jody_S

11-Nov-2013, 23:56

I don't know what borke means, but I like it. Sometimes I just feel borke.

Broke.

I would rather be broke, than borked (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=borked).