web image posting degradation

[Don Boyd]

I thought I would start at this forum as I assume others of you may have had similar problems posting images to your websites. Feel free to refer me to other forums or resources if you know of any that might be more appropriate.

I use Joseph Holmes' Ektaspace as the color space for working on my images in Photoshop. When they are posted as .jpg files to my site (donboyd.com) the luminosity and color saturation degrade and the images look flat and lifeless. Does anyone know why, and know of a solution?

(By the by, some of these images, along with others that will be posted in the next month or two, were taken with my Toho 4x5 on a recent two month, spring photo trip to the Colorado Plateau. Many of you were kind enough to offer suggestions for making the trip as productive as possible. I will provide a trip summary in the near future.)

Thanks

[Keith Laban]

Keith Laban Photography (http://www.keithlaban.co.uk)

Before opening and working on your files for Web use you should change your Photoshop Colour Settings to Web Graphics defaults. This is a sRGB working space. Then open your image (with the Ektaspace profile) and choose to convert to the working space (sRGB).

[Ralph Barker]

In addition to Keith's excellent suggestion about color space selection for Web display, when resizing the scans for Web display, it's best to do so in steps, rather than a single operation. Steps of about 50% or less seem to work nicely, with a light touch of unsharp masking at each step. The color palette in web browsers is also more limited than that of Photoshop or other image editors, a fact that also contributes to some level of degradation.

[Erik Sherman]

You might also examine the size, resolution, and amount of compression you are using. Is it that the jpegs appear one way on your screen when viewing from the hard drive but then differently from the web server?

[Larry Gebhardt]

Just change the image profile to sRGB with Convert To Profile in Photoshop.

[Greg Miller]

I agree with Larry. By far the most critical step is to Convert (not Assign) the image's color space to sRGB. Not doing so will cause you image to look desaturated. The other comments are accurate but not as critical to the specific problems that you listed.

[Frank Petronio]

I never convert the profile to sRGB. I figure that my calibrated, Gamma 1.8, D65 Mac monitor tends to show images lighter, warmer, and less saturated than the average, gamma 2.2, 9300 Kelvin PC monitor. Given the same file, Mac viewers see a wonderful full range image with delicate colors. And PC users get the overly-saturated, Velvia-like, harsh sRGB image they are accustomed to viewing... If I convert to sRGB I deprive all the rightous Mac viewers from seeing the image the right way. PC users are used to looking at crappy images, and the wide range of PC monitor set-ups makes it impossible to even identify what the majority of viewers are seeing.

[Ken Lee]

I find that even after converting to the sRGB profile in Photoshop, the same image looks different than it does when viewed in a web browser.

In fact, the same image looks different in Internet Explorer versus the Mozilla browser. I presume that the underlying rendering engines are different. It's a pickle.

[Don Boyd]

Erik, yes the images appear very different when viewed on my monitor (Sharp 19 inch LCD) in Photoshop than when viewed on the browser (whichever one Earthlink uses). Per the group's suggestions I have converted, not assigned, them to sRGB. Then I bumped up the saturation and did a better job (I hope) of sharpening.

Frank, your observation about the the superior color management system of the Mac has tipped me over the edge toward having my sights on a G5 when I get ready to replace my PC in the near future.

As a novice at posting images I wonder if programs like ImageReady, designed to prepare your images for the web, offer real advantages or do they only expedite the posting process?

Keith, your images are stunning and your site presentation is motivating me to bring more attention to the "art" of my internet gallery.

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[Ken Lee]

Does anyone know of an online tutorial or article which covers the issue of color spaces and conversion to web color spaces in Photoshop ?

[Greg Miller]

It is not online but the book "Color Confidence" by Tim Grey covers this topic well and many other color management topics.

[Ralph Barker]

Don - before going over to the dark (or, light, depending on the perspective) side - that is, converting to a Mac - you might consider tailoring your system to what the majority of your "customers" have (paying customers get precedence). If most of them are Mac users, then converting may make sense - you'll see what they are going to see (kinda - calibration is still an issue). Be prepared for a new learning curve, however. If you've used a PC for years, you may find the Mac interface is far less intuitive than Mac mavens claim.

[Frank Petronio]

I've actually been teaching a Photoslop class this week and concur with Ralph. I hate Windoze but - if you have support people around who know Windoze - it makes more sense to stick with it. If there is a loose Mac wingnut in your neighborhood, then by all means convert - OSX and the new apps like Photoshop CS are wonderful and they never crash - but I've seen plenty of Mac people get their machines totally screwed up. Of course, it is easier to screw up your Windoze box, not to mention getting the pop-ups and viruses that don't bother Macs.

ImageReady or Photoshop's "Save For Web" command actually create smaller files than simply "save as"-ing a file as a .jpg straight from Photoshop.

In general, in almost all cases, the vast majority of PC monitor's run darker, cooler, contrastier, and more saturated than the same monitor used with a Mac. If your audience is graphic designers and photographers, by all means optimize your images for a Mac audience - but if you are aiming at the mainstream, you need to find a balanced compromise that won't look too shabby if it appears 20% lighter or darker on the wide range of monitors and set-ups people use.

[Don Boyd]

Frank and Ralph, my audience for the web images is anyone who comes to my site as a potential print purchasing customer. I have certainly experienced learning interference when attending workshops that used Macs. and, have assumed that the learning curve associated with making the transition is steep initially but tapers off dramatically thereafter. I never did feel comfortable using Macs, even after 4 or 5 days. Perhaps the transition is calls for more of an investment than I realized.