Going full time teaching....?

[Kirk Gittings]

I've freelanced successfully full time since 1978. During that time I have also taught about 1-2 university credit classes a year in NM and/or Chicago because I love teaching and appreciate the break. I have also shown my B&W regularly with nearly 100 solo and group exhibits since 1972. That also generates some income-print sales have been good in the recession but not enough to live on. The recession basically has made me into one of the working poor and my architectural photography/editorial commercial business is recovering slowly but may never be back to where it was in 2006 for a variety of reasons. It also wiped out my retirement and will keep me working well into my 70's. I am 63 now. So I am considering teaching full time. This is not a dream but comes from a tentative offer from a university and if it happened would start next fall.

The problem is that I have not worked a regular "job" since 1978.........To a large degree I have been in control of my time for the last 35 years and would lose that, but the financial security is very very tempting for me at this age.

Just thinking out loud.......

[Peter De Smidt]

It's a great opportunity, as long as the people you'll be working with are good people. You should have quite a bit of leeway as to when the classes are taught. As a result, you can arrange your schedule to your liking. It's not like a standard 9 to 5 type job.

[Jac@stafford.net]

The problem is that I have not worked a regular "job" since 1978.........To a large degree I have been in control of my time for the last 35 years and would lose that, but the financial security is very very tempting for me at this age.

Two of my associates teach photography and news writing at a university. Each has found plenty of time to work on their own projects. One has several books published by another university press. I wish you the same good luck they have.

Is this an adjunct or fixed-term position? Tenure-track?

[AJ Edmondson]

Go for it Kirk... sure it would be a big change from "managing your own time - on your own time" but, if you enjoy teaching and the interaction with a group, then why not? I don't see any kind of miraculous recovery in our economy in the foreseeable future and the move toward financial security (of any kind) is certainly a worthwhile goal!
I wish you the best in making your decision.

Joel

[Kirk Gittings]

Two of my associates teach photography and news writing at a university. Each has found plenty of time to work on their own projects. One has several books published by another university press. I wish you the same good luck they have.

Is this an adjunct or fixed-term position? Tenure-track?

Fixed term associate professorship-year to year contract but stable with little turnover.

[Tin Can]

Do it Kirk.

The interaction with young people will keep you dancing, so to speak.

I am in a very similar boat financially and the same age.

I now know I must continue in a trade, I am getting up to date on HVAC and realize I have a captive market right in my building. I will need some stronger helpers, and I see myself needing additional income, badly.

[Walter Calahan]

sounds a lot better then my adjunct status as a college instructor

think of your class time as simply a regularly scheduled photo assignment

what sort of classes will you teach?

a new adventure

[Andrew O'Neill]

Go for it! There is nothing more rewarding than teaching... especially when you teach what you love and the students are keen!

[Otto Seaman]

But teaching more kids to become architectural photographers doesn't make any sense if you, a competent and experienced professional, can not make a decent living from doing it yourself....

So, while your immediate needs may be met, aren't your actions and those of the university detrimental to the photography profession - as well as the young students paying tuition and your salary - by creating dozens, if not hundreds, of hopeful but ultimately doomed for failure photographers? If we keep creating photographers then we crowd the market and further depress rates, making it harder and harder to make a living from photography.

Or are these classes aimed at hobbyists... business, technology, and law majors looking for a fun and creative recreational outlet? That's nice, showing them how their Canon Rebels work and whatnot. Maybe Canon or Nikon could fund the elective program, or maybe the University could offer classes on some cruise ships or vacation resorts?

[Kirk Gittings]

Otto, I do much more than AP and this actually has little to do with architectural photography perse. This is teaching full time in a university BFA and MFA art program. I have an MFA. Over the years I have taught landscape photography, architectural photography, the zone system, lighting, large format, fine traditional and digital printing both digital and analogue over some 30 years at universities and workshops.

Professional photography of any kind has always been very difficult to accomplish. It seemed utterly unreachable when I started out in 1970. The odds are totally against you. So I did other things for 10 or so years and kept it as a hobby. Then I made a commitment to doing it in 78 and fought my way to a career. It is harder now but as they say "there is always room for somebody good".

[Vaughn]

No matter how much they complain, university professors have (according to a recent study..add your own grain of salt) the least stressful job in the country. Rewarding, too, as you already know. It is a opportunity well worth exploring.

If you go this route, Kirk, I wish you the best! And if I am ever in the area, I would be happy to drop by your classes, show some of my work and my POV with them.

Vaughn

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks. That would be great Vaughn.

[h2oman]

Every institution is different, but here are my requirements (as a tenured associate professor): (1) Prepare for and teach my classes (2) Hold 5 hours of office hours per week (scheduled when I want) (3) Do some "professional development" (4) Perform institutional service, like being on committees and such. I'm free to schedule my time in any way that I want, as long as I get those things done. I often leave early to get some exercise, then do some prep in the evening. Some of my colleagues don't come in until 10:00 AM, or stay home on full days that they don't teach. (Of course some of that time they are working, without the distractions of being on campus.)

I think that you would find you'd have almost as much flexibility and freedom as you've had in what you've been doing. As far as #3 above, I would guess that if you continue to do a bit of architectural work on the side and continue with your personal work/exhibitions, you'd be covered there. With a renewable annual contract, you might be so fortunate as to get out of #4. I find it the most frustrating - there are a lot of committees that spend large amounts of time either getting nothing done, or rehashing some issue that comes up every ten years or so, only to be forgotten until the next round.

I love my job, being around young people all the time. There are also "non-traditional" students who I enjoy as well. For me it is usually a very stress-free job, but it isn't that way for everyone. I think the keys to reducing stress are (1) to be fair and consistent with students, covering yourself carefully so that they have no grounds for complaint (2) not fretting about the silly stuff that goes on that you have no control over. I take care of myself and my students and try not to get caught up in all the controversies that arise.

What am I trying to say? Go for it - I think it is a decision you won't regret!

Gregg

[Jim Cole]

I think it's a great opportunity, Kirk. You have a lot of skills and knowledge to share with a new generation of photographers. It would be much to the students' benefit, and it's already been said that hanging around young people is a good thing.

I say, go for it. You'll get used to the structure and actually enjoy it. All the best!!!

[Mark Sawyer]

I agree with Jim Cole, you have a lot to offer students, and in a wide range of areas. I'd say, go for it! My only reservation would be if it meant relocating, unless it's to a place you'd really like to settle in.

Otto ~ I think there's something to your concerns, but looking back at the people I went through a college photo program with, most have done fairly well, many in photography-related careers, (myself included).

[David R Munson]

If teaching is something that really works for you (and it certainly seems to), I say go for it. Fact is the world needs more committed teachers who are going to do things right and actually care enough to do well by their students, as well as to hold them to high standards. This is true of pretty much every part of every sort of education, from preschool through doctoral programs. And as you know, teaching can be immensely rewarding. Do it well and everybody wins.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Fixed term associate professorship-year to year contract but stable with little turnover.

Rules vary. At my university a fixed-term instructor could not apply for a rehire which eliminated a permanent position - tenure track. A damned shame, IMHO.

[h2oman]

No disrespect to Otto, but there are plenty of degrees available to young people that offer little hope of lucrative employment, and there still seem to be plenty of students willing to choose those programs!

If any of you have children and are concerned about this, send them our way. If they make it into one of our medical imaging programs their 4th year is a paid externship, and most graduates in that program find employment starting at 50-60K a year! If they are a good student in engineering they also have a very good chance of a decent job upon graduation.

www.oit.edu

[Tin Can]

Maybe I am wrong, but I have always thought the real value of any education was learning to learn and to think for oneself. We treasure and reward our innovators not our paint by the numbers people. Art can be a mind opener for the right students, as can engineering, physics even sports. I was never a sport.

The goal is to activate a mind. Giving a student usable skills is but one part of a successful education, career and life.

I have hired a few in my time, and I found having candidates talk about their hobbies was a real window to their skills and ability to create. Create anything.

[David Karp]

Kirk,

There are some important things you have to know before deciding. What is the teaching load? In other words, how many classes will you have to teach? How many units for the class? How many of the classes require different preps? How many students are in each class? Will you be responsible for lab (darkroom or digital printing time) supervision? Or is that handled by others?

These impact the amount of time you are actually teaching.

Something else to consider: Benefits. At 63, I don't know about pension possibilities, but that is worth investigating. Similarly, medical insurance benefits are a consideration.

[h2oman]

Agreed, Randy. Unfortunately I have several friends my age or so (50-60) whose children live with them and/or are highly dependent on them financially, for lack of being able to find or keep employment. Some people are go-getters, and can get out, market themselves and find some way to feed themselves regardless of what they studied in school. Others can be productive, but need to be tracked into employment somehow, and certain degrees can be beneficial in that regard.

By the way, concerning hiring people, this is of interest:

http://www.linkedin.com/today/post/article/20130610025112-69244073-will-smart-companies-interview-your-kids?ref=email&_mSplash=1

[Jac@stafford.net]

Fixed term associate professorship-year to year contract but stable with little turnover.

Fixed-Term is the biggest rip-off of instructors I have ever known.
At my former university, fixed-term instructors were limited to a few
years of employment and forbidden to apply for full-time employment
at the end of their term.

Beware.

.

[MIke Sherck]

Keep in mind that you are entering an age bracket where medical care becomes an important consideration. If the offer includes affordable access to good care, you ought to consider it. Besides, you always have those long summers and winter breaks to do your own thing.

Mike

[jnantz]

what a great opportunity kirk !

teaching people how to see is a wonderful thing.
i wish you all the luck !
john

[Kirk Gittings]

Fixed-Term is the biggest rip-off of instructors I have ever known.
At my former university, fixed-term instructors were limited to a few
years of employment and forbidden to apply for full-time employment
at the end of their term.

Beware.

.

We are getting ahead of ourselves here. Maybe I misunderstood your terminology. It is full time but there is no tenure at this university.

[Kirk Gittings]

FYI I know the faculty and chair well (who I have worked with on many projects). I wouldn't consider the position if the chair left.

Thanks for the insights all-rich experience here-and much to consider.

[Dave Wooten]

That is a great gig Kirk, congrats!

[Richard M. Coda]

Congratulations! I assume you won't have to move.

[Leszek Vogt]

Sounds like a great gig. I was thinking of the politics on the ground, but you seem OK with it. I have a friend who thought in the 80's FA Photo in Clairmont College...and things were not pretty, though the kids were great and ultra enthusiastic. You probably know the type, where you mention that someone will have an exhibit and several cars were rolling...full of support. Nonetheless, congrats.

Les

[goamules]

As someone in the training business for 20 years, I say go for it. My dad was in a similar situation, he was self employeed, did management consulting. When he took a sabbatical to get his PhD, his clients moved on. The business had changed, was full of new consulting companies instead of one man shows. (the first sign America was heading towards always using "Big Box" companies instead of talented individuals). Anyway, he started teaching at a local college. After 10 years, they asked him to be the Dean of Business. He's 75 now, and still there, but retiring.

Another reason to do it, is what have you got to lose? Are you giving up the other business? Are you quitting another job? No. So try the teaching for a year or two, and quit if you don't like it and do something else. You're never really locked in, but when you're older and more secure, less so.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Maybe I am wrong, but I have always thought the real value of any education was learning to learn and to think for oneself.
[...]
I have hired a few in my time, and I found having candidates talk about their hobbies was a real window to their skills and ability to create. Create anything.

I worked for a few years at a liberal arts college at which tenure was very difficult to achieve. We were not happy with the talent we found for computer programming and chose to hire a couple PhDs who did not get tenure. I found it was far easier to teach a philosopher or English professor to program than to teach a programmer how to think.

[SergeiR]

I have never done it in US, but i worked as assist.prof in University back in days of post-grading in Russia. And in schools too.

I actually think its a great gig. But both of my grandparents were professors :) So i am used to this kind of life.

Plus i believe in education.

[Michael Graves]

I teach one class a week at one of our local colleges. I enjoy the interaction with the other faculty and continue to be amazed at how much I learn from the students. I've said for a long time that my version of "retirement" will be to take up teaching full time and give up the day job.

[Mark Barendt]

I worked for myself about 8 years and the freedom to control ones time is a huge draw.

The recession kicked my tail too and I went back to work for somebody else. It isn't perfect but not bad as long as you remember what you are trading.

What is most refreshing about working for somebody else is that when I get home from work, I'm done thinking about work. When take a day or week off, I'm really off. Even at work I'm mostly just doing what I'm told. This is freeing in its own way.

[Kirk Gittings]

I teach one class a week at one of our local colleges. I enjoy the interaction with the other faculty and continue to be amazed at how much I learn from the students. I've said for a long time that my version of "retirement" will be to take up teaching full time and give up the day job.

It was never part of my "plan", but an opportunity that arose pretty much out of the blue. It is looking increasingly attractive.

[h2oman]

Kirk,

If you do take the teaching position and have the means to put a little money away, you should be aware that educators are eligible for something called a 403(b) retirement plan. You can research it on your own, or PM me back if you have simple questions that I might be able to answer for you. I tried to send this as a PM, but your inbox is full.

Gregg Waterman

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks, H2O should be clear now.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Kirk,

If you do take the teaching position and have the means to put a little money away, you should be aware that educators are eligible for something called a 403(b) retirement plan. You can research it on your own, or PM me back if you have simple questions that I might be able to answer for you. I tried to send this as a PM, but your inbox is full.

Gregg Waterman

Your new employer might be associated with TIAA-CREF.

When my wife passed away in 1979, I put $6,000 into the plan. It is valued at about $200,000 today.

Check it out.

[Drew Wiley]

I dunno - with all the truly top-notch photo talent around this neighborhood, in both traditional and digital image skills, and the conspicuous vaccum in what the art academies are now providing, I've been discussing with my cronies the possibility of adding a teaching facility to the still hypothetical studio/gallery complex. I still
need to cap off my personal benefits cycle a couple more years, however. My brother-in-law just signed on a whole new teaching contract at 70, my sister relaunched her career at 70. A famous professor pal of mine got bored teaching astrophysics at UC, so at 70 started up a whole new university dept elsewhere just
for the challenge. Heck, I'll even have a head start of a few years on 70. Why not. Beats sitting around soaking your teeth in a cup and reading Golf Digest.

[Drew Wiley]

... oh, forgot to add... after my Grandma retired from teaching public school she went to teach difficult children in a special program until she was 85. Then her
daughter (my aunt) taught art history and technique in several universities in New York until she was 92. On the side she designed a small cathedral, and lived long
enough to see it built, and made hundreds of paintings in her old age. Might as well live while you can. I was horribly ill most of my childhood and teenage years. Maybe that's why I'm so ornery and motivated now. Catch up time.

[Robert Langham]

They would be lucky to have you.

R III

[Curt]

... oh, forgot to add... after my Grandma retired from teaching public school she went to teach difficult children in a special program until she was 85. Then her
daughter (my aunt) taught art history and technique in several universities in New York until she was 92. On the side she designed a small cathedral, and lived long
enough to see it built, and made hundreds of paintings in her old age. Might as well live while you can. I was horribly ill most of my childhood and teenage years. Maybe that's why I'm so ornery and motivated now. Catch up time.

The last two posts Drew are the most motivating I've heard. I'm heading toward 62, now I'm feeling it's just beginning!

Kirk, I thought about this since yesterday and I'd encourage you to take the teaching position. It will give you a year of continuity and a chance to reevaluate your prospects.

[Alan Gales]

Kirk,

In all honesty, I don't know you well enough to give you advice. I do appreciate and respect your contribution to the forum and hell, I've learned from you. I do sincerely wish you the best.

Alan

[Lenny Eiger]

I loved teaching. I still do. I had to stop because of a couple of things. The first was lack of money. 1K-1.5 K per class is very little. It meant I was in San Francisco in the 80's making 8K a year. Can't eat much, much less raise a family.

When I taught back East it was the same, and in both places the administration was not photography-friendly, or human-friendly. Both Parsons and The Academy of Art were more like a real estate venture than a school. The people that owned, or ran, the school were not the least bit interested in education. Stunningly so.

As much as I love teaching, and I would want nothing but the fun of teaching for you, I would exercise caution.

There are some currents here that concern me. Let's dismiss the possibility that the institution has the back-biting, eye-scratching nasty environment that many schools have. Maybe it doesn't. However, there is still the scourge of post-modernism to deal with, where your photographic abilities are less valued, and the fact that the world is going instagram. Will there be photographic institutions the like of which you are considering in 5-8 years? There might be more and there might be much less. I honestly don't know.

I have heard some suggest there won't even be printers. That's very hard for me to imagine, but the world does change very quickly. I bought a fancy drum scanner at a time when everyone (other than the good folks here) was going digital. There are plenty of apug'ers, but the number of people interested in hybrid methodologies turns out to be fairly small. I walked into a business based upon my interest, not necessarily good business sense.

There are also people calling for an end to student loans altogether. They won't win, of course. However, the economy will either stay this very flat course, maybe getting better just a little bit, or its going to get much worse in the next year. That could mean many less college students in photography, something where making a living will likely get harder over time.

I might take a position, but not close the architectural business. There is probably time for both, and at worst, you could only take the commercial shoots that interest you. Once the future becomes a little clearer, you've experienced all sides you can make a better decision.

Lenny

[mdm]

Many well known photographers teach. Its a well established path. Why not?

[Drew Wiley]

The Academy of Art (SF) aggressively advertising to recruit students from two categories: A) ordinary people just wanting to take introductory classes in painting or whatever, and willing to pay for it, or (B) those seeking a career in the film industry, graphic arts etc, who are willing to wait table and flip burgers till hell freezes over, given the sheer quantity of competition for digital careers in this area. A few make it; but an art school degree is largely worthless in this respect. Learning technique is all that counts. I think UC Davis actually has a much better digital arts program. But the thing I always tell all these young wannabees is that the most important set of assets is versatility and people skills. The technology and work environment will frequently change, and serious employers place a premium on adaptability and creativity. One-trick ponies are doomed. Same reason pro studio photographers have approached me to learn darkroom. They wanted to diversify the look of their product. But I'm not really interested in just retooling them. Fine Art photographic programs, by contrast, typically get sucked into the
personal ideologies of whoever teaches them. ... a crackpot like Minor White being the epitome of the sterotypical Nutty Professor in this case (though I like his
actual photographs)... No difference teaching literature or whatever... It's a rare bird that cultivates something actually in the student rather than imposing his own world view.

[Greg Y]

..... Drew....you're not really a cynic are you ;-)

[Drew Wiley]

This area is swarming with artistes. The only thing they all seem to have in common is green hair, tatoos, and nose rings. The difference between an artiste and a
wannabee artiste is that a wannabee is spending their parents' hard-earned money to go to the art academy, while an artiste who has already graduated has successfully acquired a part-time job at the pizza parlor, but has subsequently been fired for always showing up late. They arrive from all over the country. I had several around here sweeping floors and so forth. One came from Tennessippi and with 21 of his like-minded pal made a full-length animated film, rented a theatre,
and exactly 22 people showed up to watch it. Plan B. After about eight years of this kind of nonsense he actually landed a true graphics job designing spam headers. By contrast another kid sweeping floors around here could not only do digital design, but could draw well and do basic darkroom work with real film competently. Versatile. By the time he was 26 he was making 250K as head of the graphics department in a fortune 500 company. Hates his job (just as boring as doing spam headers, really - but obviously can't resist the pay). But can he hang onto a buck, even with that kind of income? Nope.

[sanking]

There are some currents here that concern me. Let's dismiss the possibility that the institution has the back-biting, eye-scratching nasty environment that many schools have. Maybe it doesn't. However, there is still the scourge of post-modernism to deal with, where your photographic abilities are less valued, and the fact that the world is going instagram.

Lenny

Having worked all of my career in academia I would be more concerned about the realities of working as an adjunct in a college or university than post-modernism. In that capacity one typically has very little impact on either teaching at the departmental level, or on the broader issues of college and university life. On the other hand, perhaps that insularity would serve some individuals well and keep them focused on their teaching.

Sandy

[Michael Kadillak]

Over my career after having changed direction a number of times I have come to the conclusion that sometimes things happen for a reason. The fact that you have been thinking of replenishing the retirement account is a signal that you are in fact welcoming something new. I feel that there is little downside in the opportunity as you have a wealth of experience to share and a positive attitude to go with it. You will have a great sense of the situation after a year and you can always regroup if necessary. You will always kick yourself for not taking advantage of the opportunity. Go for it!

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks all. Thanks Michael. I have always taught at universities for like 25 years part time as an adjunct (UNM) or lecturer with my own regular classes (SAIC). This would be a new full time job-emphasis on teaching as my main activity as opposed to commercial work-emphasis rather than a radical shift. I got an MFA so many years ago because I wanted to get into teaching, but I got sidetracked and frankly I was probably not ready to do it before now. I'm still not sure whether this will workout to my satisfaction or theirs but I still have a long time to chew on it. Its fun to have options.

[Mark Sampson]

Kirk, if you can make the numbers work, go for it. The only thing that I have against the idea is that I will be unable to take any of your classes.

[Kirk Gittings]

Thanks Mark I appreciate that.