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RPippin
15-Jul-2013, 14:33
So, I broke down and bought a JOBO 3005 to process 5x7 and 8x10. Question. Is how much developer to use with either film (5 sheets of 5x7 or 8x10). My go to developer is PMK Pyro. Just did some 8x10 FP4 and got real uneven development. I mixed 2500 ml and did a presoak first and 4 out of 5 were streaked badly. It seems to take quite a long time to even pour the stuff in and that concerned me from the get go. I know this should be a fairly fool proof system so figure it's my inexperience with this that's the problem. I used the BTZS tubes with no problems in the past. Any help will be appreciated.

Nicolasllasera
15-Jul-2013, 14:42
Are you not using a processor? If you are not rolling the tank you need a lot of chemistry and I dont think they are designed to it. I develope all my 8x10 and 5x7 with it and a ATL2200 and use 640ml.

vinny
15-Jul-2013, 14:42
2500ml, are you nucking futs?
I believe there are recommendations written on the tank. Did you presoak your film for a couple minutes?
Jobo tanks are made to be used on their machines which require the tank to be perfectly horizontal. Many threads on how to do this w/o a machine already exist. get a funnel and some flexible tubing. I also use pmk but only 500ml at a time- 500ml for first 1/2 of development, then 500ml for second half since pmk isn't made for rotary development and is said to oxidize or something. My prints have yet to complain.

BOOM! http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/instructions/instructions_misc_expert_drums.htm

Ari
15-Jul-2013, 14:52
I agree with the others; when in doubt, I use 150 mL per 8x10 sheet.
With five sheets loaded, that's 750 mL, which is a little more than the recommended amount.
You'll see a huge improvement if you keep to these quantities and use the tank as it is intended, that is, on a roller base or in a water bath where you can keep the tank spinning.

Lenny Eiger
15-Jul-2013, 14:52
I have one of these. I use 1300 ml's of developer - every time. Regardless of how many pieces of film I have in the tank. Varying the amount is just asking for trouble. Especially for 5x7 and 8x10. I presoak for 5 minutes, I have very consistent development, no streaks, etc.

When pouring, there is a point where it makes more noise... and sends the excess into the overflow. The stream should be about two fingers wide. If I had to guess I'd say it took me about 20 seconds to empty the graduate into the tank, maybe 15, maybe 25. I have been using Xtol 1:1.

Lenny

ic-racer
15-Jul-2013, 14:55
Have you read this: http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/jq/jq9502.htm

jonreid
15-Jul-2013, 14:57
I use Rollo Pyro. 500ml for a full tank of 6 sheets. I roll mine on a modified upturned skateboard. Pre soak is highly recommended. No problems here, my negs look snappy & clean every time.

Jon

vinny
15-Jul-2013, 14:59
I agree with the others; when in doubt, I use 150 mL per 8x10 sheet.
With five sheets loaded, that's 750 mL, which is a little more than the recommended amount.
You'll see a huge improvement if you keep to these quantities and use the tank as it is intended, that is, on a roller base or in a water bath where you can keep the tank spinning.

Jobo's recommended amount for b+w chemicals is 1000ml for 5 sheets. That's from the link I provided above.

vinny
15-Jul-2013, 15:00
I use Rollo Pyro. 500ml for a full tank of 6 sheets. I roll mine on a modified upturned skateboard. Pre soak is highly recommended. No problems here, my negs look snappy & clean every time.

Jon

your 3005 holds 6 sheets?

RPippin
15-Jul-2013, 16:12
Yes, I'm nucking futs, but that's for another time and another thread. I do use a roller base, and the riddle is solved. Way too much developer. Thanks for all the replies.

bob carnie
15-Jul-2013, 16:39
For PMK 14 min dev I use a 2 min pre soak and split the dev into two 7 minute times, I mix 2000ml of pyro and put 1000ml in each bottle.
FWIW I always use 1000ml for all tanks and runs , I never break it into small amounts of fluid.
If you are getting streaking you are pouring too slowly and the film is not getting the dev evenly enough fast enough.

Lenny Eiger
15-Jul-2013, 18:52
Jobo's recommended amount for b+w chemicals is 1000ml for 5 sheets. That's from the link I provided above.

Vinny,

Thanks for the link. I never considered a two part presoak. Interesting idea...

I think I would add the important recommendation here would be from the film and developer manufacturers data on the amount of developer required to develop the number of square inches of film. That's how I calculated it... and why certain developers, which might be good by other criteria, are not of interest (Perceptol isn't going to do 5 sheets of 8x10, for example).

(I really don't care what Jobo says, they have proven to be incorrect and unreliable in this regard...)


Lenny

Nicolasllasera
16-Jul-2013, 00:56
Ooohh. I guess I took the quantity fromthe E6 and C41 and stuck to that. Should I go up to 1000ml? Or if its working stay at 640ml. Im using home made D76.

Scott Davis
16-Jul-2013, 06:57
I would skip the PMK and switch to a pyro developer meant for rotary development, like Pyrocat HD or 510 pyro or Rollo pyro. I had bad experiences when trying to use PMK in rotary development; as a result I switched to Pyrocat HD and could not be happier. Another plus of the switch is that you don't have to add an extra stop to your exposure to compensate for the developer's relatively weak activity in the shadows.

vinny
16-Jul-2013, 08:01
Lenny- two batch developer, not pre-soak.

I would skip the PMK and switch to a pyro developer meant for rotary development, like Pyrocat HD or 510 pyro or Rollo pyro. I had bad experiences when trying to use PMK in rotary development; as a result I switched to Pyrocat HD and could not be happier. Another plus of the switch is that you don't have to add an extra stop to your exposure to compensate for the developer's relatively weak activity in the shadows.

I read "you can't use pmk in rotary machines" when I got my jobo as well but it's what I had so I tried it anyway. Best negs ever. I've been using pmk in jobo drums for about five years. No problems, no weak shadows (I don't compensate a stop, I rate tmy at 400, fp4 at 100, and efke 25 at 25. Care to elaborate on your bad experiences?

bob carnie
16-Jul-2013, 08:29
Geeze I should inform my clients, I have ran over 50 thousand rolls of PMK on a jobo over the last 20 years.. shit I am in real trouble here.
I hope I do not have to give them their money back.


I would skip the PMK and switch to a pyro developer meant for rotary development, like Pyrocat HD or 510 pyro or Rollo pyro. I had bad experiences when trying to use PMK in rotary development; as a result I switched to Pyrocat HD and could not be happier. Another plus of the switch is that you don't have to add an extra stop to your exposure to compensate for the developer's relatively weak activity in the shadows.

Scott Davis
16-Jul-2013, 12:47
I read "you can't use pmk in rotary machines" when I got my jobo as well but it's what I had so I tried it anyway. Best negs ever. I've been using pmk in jobo drums for about five years. No problems, no weak shadows (I don't compensate a stop, I rate tmy at 400, fp4 at 100, and efke 25 at 25. Care to elaborate on your bad experiences?

What I did was use I want to say 500 ml of PMK for doing 6 sheets of 4x5 in a Jobo 3006 drum. This was a good 8-10 years ago, and I don't have notes about what I did back then in front of me (don't have notes about it period), but I do recall getting a batch that were significantly underdeveloped, and the developer poured out very dark. Next I tried using a much higher volume of developer (at least 1500 ml) and ran into the problems Richard was having with overdevelopment and inconsistency. There are any number of variables that I could have been screwing up at the time and am totally unaware of now given the passing of time (I was also new to rotary processing at the time, and using an elderly CPA2 whose motor was starting to fail). I probably have discussion threads over on APUG from that time period and/or private messages relating to it that I could search through given enough time. Lee Carmichael was the one who prompted me to try Pyrocat HD instead of PMK (RIP, Lee), and to me it was a profound difference, so I was happy to change.

photobymike
16-Jul-2013, 13:14
2500ml, are you nucking futs? ]

LOL your funny vinney..

There seems to be a large number of photographers on LF that are struggling with developing there film. I have seen many of posts like this with a lack of knowledge on how to develop film of any kind. I have answered many personal emails asking for advice on how to make good negatives... Maybe there is a place online to refer the developer newbies. There are many different techniques to developing good negs. There are some basics that if followed with some common sense can cause success and satisfaction. Wish i just had the time to maybe do some videos or a website on how to do..... 2500ml lol lol.... that sure would be a heavy tank to roll....

Here are some some notes and observations in my 47 year journey to make quality negatives

I have been using Pyrocat HD Glycol with with delta 100 and 400 as well Tmax 100 and 400. And depending on what i am shooting i always over expose by at least a half stop and as much as a full stop on portraits ....


1. Use pipettes to measure. This stuff is so concentrated that being off a small amount effects your out come.

2. I presoak for 5 minutes at development temperature. I change out the water 2 or 3 times for the presoak. It is needed to wash away the halation barrier. This has always been important... use distilled water... the PH is slightly acid which is ok... tap water who knows what it is.....

3. Use rubber gloves when handling this substance. If you use it a lot, it can accumulate in your system and be toxic.

4. Use distilled water for mixing. I use distilled water for all of my photo chemicals anyway.

5. The negatives scan really well with my scanner V750 epson. I seem to have a longer dynamic range by at least one stop.

6. I use a Beseler roller for development... but it seems to like stand alone tank with moderate agitation...twirl the reels in my paterson tanks.....4x5 always are rolled....

7. Dilute your Stop Bath... to strong and you get pin holes. Use a stop bath to get the film ready for the acid in your fixer. Some photo guys use just water for the stop bath... but i have found that just a little acid stop works better. i use alkli fixer especially for T-grain films.. for an extra 3 minutes. I have also used Kodak rapid fixer without the hardener works well. Fix for an extra 3 minutes for a total of 8 minutes

8. When you get ready to mix your developer. Roll your bottles of concentrate before using... there seems to be some separation and precipitate on the cap after sitting for a couple of days. Do not shake but make sure concentrate is mixed.

9. Because of the tanning (hardening effect) of the developer it seems the emulsion needs more washing than normal film.... i use very strong hypo clear (Orbit) for 2 minutes each in 2 baths with vigorous agitation.

10. I take the film off the reels and soak for 30 secs in Photo-Flo. Most important; I use distilled water to mix Photo-Flo. If you use regular water or tap water you will see a sledge or slim on your finished negs... The i use a very clean sponge to wipe away the excess Photo-Flo.

I do all of this and what i end up with is beautiful chocolate colored negatives that scan really well.

Any thing to add to these observations, or maybe some questions.

RPippin
16-Jul-2013, 18:38
Vinny, I looked at your link and followed your procedure to the letter and I'm happy to report the next 5 negs came out perfect. Not only that, but it appears that I'm not over exposing my negs after all. In the past there appeared to be to much density in my negs but apparently it was from my developing, not exposure. Thanks for your help.

jonreid
17-Jul-2013, 02:22
your 3005 holds 6 sheets?

Maybe mine is a 3006? Takes 4x5 & 5x7 - six sheets.

matthew blais
17-Jul-2013, 06:11
I always pick up the tank after a minute and do hand inversions (slowly) then put back on the roller base. Repeat again the second minute then leave it on the roller base. Once I started doing this I never had streaks again.

bob carnie
17-Jul-2013, 06:24
This is great advice, I also do this in fact I do this immediately if I have concerns about grey open sky's or grey backgrounds.

I always pick up the tank after a minute and do hand inversions (slowly) then put back on the roller base. Repeat again the second minute then leave it on the roller base. Once I started doing this I never had streaks again.