4x5 viewfinder rangefinder

[steve barry]

Are there any 4x5 cameras that combine a rangefinder in a viewfinder or are they all separate?

[vinny]

converted polaroid 110b's, etc.

[steve barry]

thats it though right?

[Bill_1856]

Busch Pressman with the Bolex viewfinder/rangerfinder.

[Bob Salomon]

While not one window the Wista RF has the rangefinder and viewfinder windows positioned next to each other.

There was, for a very short period of time, a coupled electronic rangefinder/viewfinder made by Linhof for the Master Technika 2000. It could be coupled via a computer (no cams involved) for up to 10 lenses from 90 to 300mm and had frames for all formats from 6x6 to 4x5 + Polaroid. It focused via an IR beam system. This system was called the Linhof EMS and was introduced in 1994 and was discontinued a year or so later. Unfortunately it had some problems that resulted in its being withdrawn from the market. For instance it could not focus on a herringbone pattern and a picket fence could also give false readings. Also lenses longer then 210mm were a problem to focus at infinity or near infinity.
Of course, like the Linhof Multifocus Finder, it corrected automatically for parralax as well as for frame size as you focused closer. The finder display also read out distances and indicated the required direction to focus the lens to be in focus. It also read out format size and lens focal length in an LCD panel on top of the camera.

[steve barry]

Hey Bill, this one?:

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/Busch/page4.html

[steve barry]

Hey Bob, thanks. I looked at the Wista RF...and at first thought they were combined. Bummer.

The Linhof EMS sounds interesting.

Is there a reason none of these 4x5's with a rangefinder incorporate it into the viewfinder?

[Bob Salomon]

Since the Linhof Technika was designed originally well before I was born, and I am 72, I wouldn't know their reasoning.

The RF is as close as you will get though since a Polaroid 110, or the other models are not a 45 camera.

[Bill_1856]

Hey Bill, this one?:

http://lommen9.home.xs4all.nl/Busch/page4.html

Yes, that's the one.
The Busch has actually become my preferred 4x5, although I have several others including TRF Crown and a Techinka. PM me if you want more info.

[lbenac]

Chamonix Saber a little bit different than Alpenhaus or Razzle.

[Drew Bedo]

I think the Polaroif reference is for the conversions by Byron, Razzle and Alpinhaus . . . et al.

some folks swear by them, some don't.

I do wish someone would make a 4x5 RF from scratch . . .like a Mamya-7 or a 4x5 SLR based on the Polaroid SX-70 geometry. Could be another Kick-Starter project!

[Otto Seaman]

with a motor drive for action....

[steve barry]

I hacked together my own Polaroid conversion... It works ok... But not really for me... The biggest problem I see with all the conversions I have seen - they all use the original Polaroid RF which ssssuuucccckkss.

[Corran]

I love my Polaroid 900 4x5 and I think the RF is awesome. Is it the best one ever? No, but it works a treat.

[steve barry]

Maybe just the ones I tried were terrible. Yours is clear? Compared to what I know.

[Corran]

Just looked through it critically and it does have a slight purple tinge that I never noticed when shooting. Bright rangefinder spot, though it is a weird shape, not that it matters. It's as least as bright/contrasty as my Nikon SP 35mm RF, maybe slightly less so than my Bessa, which is renowned for the bright RF. Seems like pretty good performance to me.

[Otto Seaman]

On the three different Polaroid 110s I've had the rangefinder regularly needed adjustment and was a pain in the arse.

[lbenac]

I do not have this problem with my Chamonix Saber. I adjusted the RF when I changed the lens and it has not moved since.

[Corran]

The vertical alignment in my Polaroid is off a little bit. Been meaning to open it up and get it adjusted.

I've adjusted dozens of Kalart RF's, now THAT is a piece of junk RF!

[Otto Seaman]

Didn't the 900 on which the Saber is based have the better Zeiss rangefinder?

I agree, Kalharts are very difficult and I've never gotten either the top or the side RFs on Graphics to agree across their entire range from close to infinity. You end up favoring the close distances and rely on the infinity stops and distance scale for far....

The only really good LF rangefinder I've found is a proper Technika.

For most of the photos I see here, landscapes, seems like scale focusing is all people really need.

[Drew Bedo]

If there was a viable market for a solid 4x5 camera with a coupled, paralax-corrected Range/Viewfinder, someone in China would be making it. Fotoman doesn't offer one, Mimaya hasen't built one.

Don't misunderstand. I really LIKE the idea of a folding 4x5 like a scaled-up classic Zeis, Ansco or Voightlander folders in 6x9cm . . .a 4x5 Bessa-II! I just don't see it happening.

[EdSawyer]

The Saber is based on the 100-series polaroids, much different than the usual 110/900 based ones. Luc, how did you adjust the rangefinder and which lens did you switch to?

The Kalart is a fine piece, very adjustable and works great when clean and adjusted. I have two of them, on crown and speed pacemakers, and both are extremely accurate from minimum focus distance (4') to infnity, and thats with an aero ektar and 135 xenotar. It can take a good couple hours at least, to dial one in however.

[lbenac]

The Saber is based on the 100-series polaroids, much different than the usual 110/900 based ones. Luc, how did you adjust the rangefinder and which lens did you switch to?

The Kalart is a fine piece, very adjustable and works great when clean and adjusted. I have two of them, on crown and speed pacemakers, and both are extremely accurate from minimum focus distance (4') to infnity, and thats with an aero ektar and 135 xenotar. It can take a good couple hours at least, to dial one in however.

Ed,
I replaced a 150 Symmar with a 150 Sironar-N. Very close focal distance.
When you remove the cover of the RF, there is a little screw on the right that adjusts the RF.

Cheers,

Luc

[Gordon Flodders]

The Polaroid rangefinder has never been a problem for me, even if it requires adjustment, it only takes a few minutes. If you need advice on how to adjust it just contact the Razzle man, he'll send pics on how easy it really is. This one has the beautiful Planar lens, I so wish it were mine.

[Drew Bedo]

Is this question some sort of bar-bet? Who won?

[Gordon Flodders]

The idea behind the combined view/rangefinder is that it provides a quick and easy alternative to a dual window system and an even better alternative having to view a ground glass screen with the camera stuck on a tripod (ugh). The Polaroid's finder unit is miles ahead of the rest, providing it's correctly adjusted and maintained, plus it's big, bright and has an easy to see split image target. Most problems associated with inaccuracy of rangefinders is due a lack of knowledge and mechanical apptitude on the part of the user.

That's my side of the bar.

GF.

[Drew Bedo]

Hello Gordon,

Ignorant yank that I am: Where is North-South-West Australia?

[Bob Salomon]

The idea behind the combined view/rangefinder is that it provides a quick and easy alternative to a dual window system and an even better alternative having to view a ground glass screen with the camera stuck on a tripod (ugh). The Polaroid's finder unit is miles ahead of the rest, providing it's correctly adjusted and maintained, plus it's big, bright and has an easy to see split image target. Most problems associated with inaccuracy of rangefinders is due a lack of knowledge and mechanical apptitude on the part of the user.

That's my side of the bar.

GF.

While it was not a 4x5 the Linhof Technika 70 probably had the best combined finder. Bright frame lines for 3 lenses, center split image RF, moving arrow on top of the frame to indicate level camera and which way to move it to become level. Fully automatic compensation for parallax as well as automatic field size reduction while focusing.

[Dan Fromm]

Hello Gordon,

Ignorant yank that I am: Where is North-South-West Australia?

PMFJI. New South Wales.

[EdSawyer]

Luc, thanks for the info! No need to adjust mine, but was curious how it's done. I have the 120 apo symmar on my Saber. I wish Chamonix would continue to make these. Or at least make and sell the frame, to let users DIY their own conversions.