Need Lens mounting advice

[gary892]

I need help to make a decision on which lens to have mounted into a shutter.

Which choice would you make?

Here are the specifics.

Lens#1 - C.P.Gorez 24" (609.6 mm) Artar Apochromat F11 - 77 mm filter size

Lens#2 - Apo-Nikkor 610 mm (24.01575 inch) 1:9 Nikon - 95 mm filter size

Shutter Ilex#5

I have only one shutter and I am breaking the budget to get one of these lens mounted by SK Grimes.

This will be used on a 12x20 Korona, it that helps.

Argumets for Gorez
77 mm filter size, I already have a full complement of filters for this size.
Lighter weight
Smaller in size

Arguments against Gorez
Sharp in center of lens and has fall off on edges, according what I have read.
SK Grimes recommends mounting this lens in a copal 3 shutter for a 1/3 stop loss they will mount in a Ilex #5

Arguments for Apo-Nikkor
Sharp lens edge to edge, according to what I have read and I think Ken Lee has a demonstration on his web site.
SK Grimes recommends an Ilex #5 shutter for this lens.

Arguments against Apo-Nikkor
Big and heavy
95 mm filter size _ I don't own any filters in this size
probably need some sort of composite lens board as I don't think a wooden lens board will support this lens in a 12x20 Korona.


So, Please share your opinion

Thanks

Gary

[Dan Fromm]

Gary, the 610/9 Apo-Nikkor in barrel weighs 1,450 grams. Not that heavy. Do you know how much the 24" Apo Artar weighs? I ask because I don't know.

Is the Apo Artar coated? If not, the Apo-Nikkor would be the better choice.

[Carsten Wolff]

Gary, the 610/9 Apo-Nikkor in barrel weighs 1,450 grams. Not that heavy. Do you know how much the 24" Apo Artar weighs? I ask because I don't know. Is the Apo Artar coated? If not, the Apo-Nikkor would be the better choice.

I second Dan's comment. I have to say that my Apo-Artar was fairly light compared to others, but I don't have numbers.
One thing to think about re: Ilex#5: I'd contemplate NOT spending money on getting a lens custom-mounted for it unless it is in excellent mechanical condition. You probably won't be able to get them repaired easily as no parts are available (see Flutot's website).
I'd sell the shutter instead and just get a lens in your focal length already in a shutter.

As an aside, since you mention weight: I have been using my 450mm Fujinon-C as a lightweight, good quality 765mm tele by using a cheap&light Olympus C-180 x1.7 screw-in teleconverter on it.....no change in bellows extension either, you don't even really have to re-focus, but I don't know about coverage beyond 5x7/8x10.

[Leigh]

The Apo-Artar is a process lens, optimized for relatively close distances.

The Apo-Nikkor is a general-purpose lens.

Depends on what you want to shoot.

- Leigh

[Carsten Wolff]

Leigh, RD Apo-Artars are excellent GP lenses, at infinity or not.

Gary, I guess you saw this on the site?:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?105201-FS-APO-Nikkor-610mm-f-9-mounted-in-Ilex-5-by-SK-Grimes-in-lens-board/
Do the numbers :) ...

[Bernice Loui]

Both are process lenses with similar performance and coverage.

The Artar is as sharp at the edges as the APO Nikkor. Where did the belief/idea the Artar is not sharp at the edges and APO Nikkor sharp center to edge?
More important is using either lens withing their rated circle of definition than brand or... Circle of illumination or what some perceive as coverage is not the same as rated circle of definition.

Difference being the f9 Nikkor will be physically larger than the f11 Artar making the Nikkor more difficult to install into a shutter. Goerz offered the 24" f11 in a Ilex# 5 and it maybe easier to simply find one like this rather than having a custom done. This might make more sense on Artars longer than 30".

One more thing to consider is simply using the lens in barrel with a lens cap as the shutter and a Neutral Density filter in the filter slot to control exposure. Experimenting with this will allow you to try out both lenses and decide which you might prefer. The other way is to mount a Sinar shutter on your camera which will allow using a large variety of barrel lenses without the cost and problems of big shutters.


Bernice



I need help to make a decision on which lens to have mounted into a shutter.

Which choice would you make?

Here are the specifics.

Lens#1 - C.P.Gorez 24" (609.6 mm) Artar Apochromat F11 - 77 mm filter size

Lens#2 - Apo-Nikkor 610 mm (24.01575 inch) 1:9 Nikon - 95 mm filter size

Shutter Ilex#5

I have only one shutter and I am breaking the budget to get one of these lens mounted by SK Grimes.

This will be used on a 12x20 Korona, it that helps.

Argumets for Gorez
77 mm filter size, I already have a full complement of filters for this size.
Lighter weight
Smaller in size

Arguments against Gorez
Sharp in center of lens and has fall off on edges, according what I have read.
SK Grimes recommends mounting this lens in a copal 3 shutter for a 1/3 stop loss they will mount in a Ilex #5

Arguments for Apo-Nikkor
Sharp lens edge to edge, according to what I have read and I think Ken Lee has a demonstration on his web site.
SK Grimes recommends an Ilex #5 shutter for this lens.

Arguments against Apo-Nikkor
Big and heavy
95 mm filter size _ I don't own any filters in this size
probably need some sort of composite lens board as I don't think a wooden lens board will support this lens in a 12x20 Korona.


So, Please share your opinion

Thanks

Gary

[c.d.ewen]

Gary:

I also shoot a Korona 12x20. My most frequently used lenses are a 24" Red Dot Artar factory-mounted in an Ilex 5, and a 355mm G-Claron in a Copal 3. The RD Artar is coated; the one you mentioned sounds like the earlier, uncoated version. The RDA + Ilex 5 weigh just over 3 lbs.

I've never shot the RDA wide open, and have never had a complaint about off-center sharpness. Whichever lens you choose, it's going to be a lot of weight on the front standard. Make sure you have a good tripod (I use a big Ries). I've also made a set of front rail stiffeners, such as were apparently offered for the camera originally.

On a completely subjective level, the physical appearance of the Artar is a lot more elegant than the Nikkor. There's a lot of extra brass around the glass on the Nikkor, but you don't have to think like me.

I'd second Carsten's suggestion of selling the Ilex 5, and picking up a Copal 3. As mentioned, the Ilex 5 is much older, with limited parts availability. I just dropped off two at the local repair guy, with hopes that he can get them back in decent shape. 'No promises', I was told.

I don't know what budget you have for this project, and what other lenses you may be contemplating, but you might consider choosing the shutter based on which lenses you can swop in and out of it. If you're considering some big old brassy that you want to shoot wide open, then the big-mouthed Ilex 5 might be a better choice. Other than that, the Copal 3 makes the most sense.

Charley

[Ken Lee]

Unless the Goerz is a Red Dot, it is not coated. The Nikkor is coated and will have higher contrast and less flare.

The Goerz probably has an iris with 16 blades, while the Nikkor has 10.

[Dan Fromm]

Gary, why put either lens in shutter?

Their entrance pupils are 55 mm (Apo Artar) and 68 mm (Apo Nikkor). A #5's (Ilex or Compound) maximum opening is ~ 65 mm, so a #5 close to the front of the lens won't cause vignetting problems.

An adapter to hold a #5 (Ilex or Compound) in front of either lens will cost much less than the work needed to put either in shutter and will let you mount the lens on board with its rear behind the board, i.e., in the way that's easiest on your Korona's front standard.

Hanging a lens in front of a shutter is quite possible, skgrimes made an adapter for me that holds a Compound #5 in front of a 900/10 Apo Saphir.