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Michael Lloyd
8-Jul-2013, 06:56
Plan A is to ask a friend of mine to develop my sheet film (B&W) for me. Plan B is to do it myself. This post is about exploring that option.

If you happened to see my loading film holders phobia post then this ties right in. Thanks to a lot of help from this forum, after years of not even trying to load sheet film, I finally loaded some film holders with Ilford 100 Delta Black and White film and exposed them yesterday. I exposed 6 sheets of film (maybe but that's another story) and now I need to develop them. But I don't have a darkroom. The best I have is a small bathroom with a window on the south wall. I could probably cover that up and seal up the door and make it light tight. The master bathroom has a window and two sky lights and no door so it's not an option. In the smaller bathroom, the sink area is fairly small so I would probably put any spent chemical in a bucket and dispose of it outside.

I have the following chemicals (been sitting for a few years):

Ilfotek DD-X
Ilford ID-11
a bag of Kodak D-76 Developer
Kodak Photo-flo 200
Clearstop Acid stop bath Silvergrain

I have some trays, a Jobo color thermometer, and some wooden tongs.

I also have a couple of CPE-2 Jobo processors but that seems like a whole new learning curve that I'm not ready for yet.

Can I develop my negatives with what I have?

Peter York
8-Jul-2013, 07:53
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/unicolor/

Liquid Artist
8-Jul-2013, 08:08
Just to develop the film you don't need a darkroom. Just a change bag and something like your Jobo. In my case I owned a Paterson Tank System 4, and when I googled it up I found a YouTube video how to use it to develop 4 sheets at a time. The 4 sheet method he showed doesn't really work for me, but I adapted it into a 2 sheet method that does work.
It was easier than I could have imagined, and I've messed up less than I have while actually taking the photo.

However, I do understand it being nerve wracking. If I would have known someone already processing LF film locally I would have probably asked them for a quick lesson first. Since I didn't it was easier just taking the plunge ..
After developing the negatives you'll either need to set up the darkroom, or scan and print the negative ..

Peter York
8-Jul-2013, 08:45
Oops, I didn't see that you have a Jobo. The learning curve should be pretty easy.

Michael Lloyd
8-Jul-2013, 08:46
Good info. Thanks a ton!

I'll be scanning the negative. I bought a Epson 10000XL with the negative scanning attachment a good while back.

Michael Lloyd
8-Jul-2013, 08:48
Oops, I didn't see that you have a Jobo. The learning curve should be pretty easy.

I don't have the room for the Jobo right now. I actually have two CPE2's (no pump). I'll probably eBay one of them before long.

Regular Rod
8-Jul-2013, 09:06
Plan A is to ask a friend of mine to develop my sheet film (B&W) for me. Plan B is to do it myself. This post is about exploring that option.

If you happened to see my loading film holders phobia post then this ties right in. Thanks to a lot of help from this forum, after years of not even trying to load sheet film, I finally loaded some film holders with Ilford 100 Delta Black and White film and exposed them yesterday. I exposed 6 sheets of film (maybe but that's another story) and now I need to develop them. But I don't have a darkroom. The best I have is a small bathroom with a window on the south wall. I could probably cover that up and seal up the door and make it light tight. The master bathroom has a window and two sky lights and no door so it's not an option. In the smaller bathroom, the sink area is fairly small so I would probably put any spent chemical in a bucket and dispose of it outside.

I have the following chemicals (been sitting for a few years):

Ilfotek DD-X
Ilford ID-11
a bag of Kodak D-76 Developer
Kodak Photo-flo 200
Clearstop Acid stop bath Silvergrain

I have some trays, a Jobo color thermometer, and some wooden tongs.

I also have a couple of CPE-2 Jobo processors but that seems like a whole new learning curve that I'm not ready for yet.

Can I develop my negatives with what I have?

Here's an option that works well. I use a Harrison Jumbo Tent to load and unload the film holders and the processor.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?103748-Daylight-Processing-Sheet-Film&p=1030948&viewfull=1#post1030948

RR

C. D. Keth
8-Jul-2013, 23:11
I develop 4x5 in my bathroom.

I own the following:

-a set of BTZS tubes and a tray big enough to agitate them
-2 trays for water stop and fix
-a small graduate for measuring pyrocat
-a larger graduate for measuring water
-a thermometer

That's all.

I load the tubes in a tent. I close the door most of the way and put a towel over the window if the neighbor's light is on for when I have to switch from empty caps to the caps with developer in.

John Kasaian
8-Jul-2013, 23:36
Don't forget you'll need at least one graduate & stirring stick to mix your chemicals, and jugs (with a funnel to fill them) to store your stock solutions. A thermometer is nice. An extra tray or so for washing your negatives (or you can put them on the floor of your shower, just make sure they don't stop up the drain and cause a flood) a piece of clothes line and some clothes pins for drying. Did anyone mention a safe light? Timer?

Otto Seaman
9-Jul-2013, 04:31
I take it you intend to scan the film and not build an entire wet darkroom? It's not cheating to use a lab, at least until you are sure you can manage loading and unloading holders. Why stress yourself too much? ;-p

The vast majority of all commercial large format photographs have been processed by a consistent, reliable, professional lab. It makes sense to start this way because it reduces the variable of you mucking up the processing and gives you the satisfaction and feedback of how your film shooting is doing. And if you decide it's not for you, then you haven't blown money and time on processing equipment.

http://www.4photolab.com is a great mail order lab with personal service and a stellar reputation.

I send my color film to the lab and process B&W myself, but if I am in a time crunch I have no problem sending B&W to the lab. It does cost more than doing it at home but I notice you have an expensive Technika and a 110XL that you haven't utilized so you must be able to afford "doing it right".

polyglot
10-Jul-2013, 03:53
The most important thing you're missing is fixer; you can't develop film without fixer! Your developers are also a bit old but the powdered ones will be totally fine if they're still in the original foil packets.

This is the process that you need to follow (http://brodie-tyrrell.org/wiki/index.php?BWFilmProcessing), differing only in what container you use to develop the film. I would suggest that the simplest and cheapest is to use the "Taco Method" (google it) in a Paterson 3-reel tank. You will also need a changing bag to load the film into the tank before developing, but once the tank is closed, you can operate in the light.

If you use trays, you require a totally dark room. That's hard, if only because of the dexterity requirements and opportunity for spillage.

If you have a Jobo and matching tanks, just use it. It's absolutely no more difficult than using inversion tanks and it's less effort because it handles the agitation & temp-control for you! Just put an ice block (cooler brick) in the bath if the tap water is over 20C. Seriously, use the Jobo, it's not a whole new learning curve.

Michael Lloyd
10-Jul-2013, 05:32
I take it you intend to scan the film and not build an entire wet darkroom? It's not cheating to use a lab, at least until you are sure you can manage loading and unloading holders. Why stress yourself too much? ;-p

The vast majority of all commercial large format photographs have been processed by a consistent, reliable, professional lab. It makes sense to start this way because it reduces the variable of you mucking up the processing and gives you the satisfaction and feedback of how your film shooting is doing. And if you decide it's not for you, then you haven't blown money and time on processing equipment.

http://www.4photolab.com is a great mail order lab with personal service and a stellar reputation.

I send my color film to the lab and process B&W myself, but if I am in a time crunch I have no problem sending B&W to the lab. It does cost more than doing it at home but I notice you have an expensive Technika and a 110XL that you haven't utilized so you must be able to afford "doing it right".

Yessir, I'll be scanning. There is no room for an enlarger, etc. Not yet anyway. I am not opposed to using a lab. I didn't think to ask for references for a good one.

"Afford" is relative I guess. I could've bought another DSLR and lens but rumor has it that film isn't dead ;) and the reality is that collecting data (DSLR) is not the same as exposing film. Not even close.

I have the attention span of a gnat when it comes to things I'm interested in but there are two things that I have stayed with for a long time. Three if you count the work that I do. One has been a lifetime joy. I mean pure bliss when I do it and that is photography. I enjoy reloading and shooting long range (1,000 yards plus, non-competitive) but it's not a passion. Reloading and shooting are fun and a technical challenge. Photography is a passion. Work is a requirement. Thank God I enjoy what I do.

Developing and ultimately printing my own exposed negatives is in my future. Right now, I would have to force it into my life. The post right above my reply has me thinking that I should drag out a Jobo and give that a try, assuming that I have the right tank.

I think what I will do is (a) send my exposed negatives to the lab that you linked to. That will tell me if the film is good. It's fairly old and hasn't been in the refrigerator. (b) order some fixer. duh... hey... I was like 8 or 9 when I developed a roll of 35mm B&W film in the family bathroom with a Sears developing and enlarging kit that my dad got me for Christmas. I'm 55 and that is one of the few memories that I still remember clearly. Especially when the image started to show on the print. That was amazing. I wish I still had the print that I made. Surely I could call it art and make a few zillion bucks off of it (or not)

I have fresh film ordered and I'll put that in the fridge. I have a storing film question but I think that I'll start another thread on that on so it doesn't get lost

Thanks for all of the great advice. I'll be referencing this thread as time goes on and more replies will be read and appreciated

Michael Lloyd
10-Jul-2013, 05:34
The most important thing you're missing is fixer; you can't develop film without fixer! Your developers are also a bit old but the powdered ones will be totally fine if they're still in the original foil packets.

This is the process that you need to follow (http://brodie-tyrrell.org/wiki/index.php?BWFilmProcessing), differing only in what container you use to develop the film. I would suggest that the simplest and cheapest is to use the "Taco Method" (google it) in a Paterson 3-reel tank. You will also need a changing bag to load the film into the tank before developing, but once the tank is closed, you can operate in the light.

If you use trays, you require a totally dark room. That's hard, if only because of the dexterity requirements and opportunity for spillage.

If you have a Jobo and matching tanks, just use it. It's absolutely no more difficult than using inversion tanks and it's less effort because it handles the agitation & temp-control for you! Just put an ice block (cooler brick) in the bath if the tap water is over 20C. Seriously, use the Jobo, it's not a whole new learning curve.

Nice! I bookmarked the link. Thanks a ton!

photobymike
10-Jul-2013, 05:39
loading the Jobo sheet 2509 reels is harder than loading the film into holders

RMiksell
10-Jul-2013, 07:06
Personally I think developing in a yankee 4x5 developing tank would be pretty cheap and easy. You can buy them new from freestyle for $16 each, I'd recommend getting 3 (developer, stop bath, and fixer, you could wash your film in the tray), but you could get away with only two since it sounds like you're planning on mixing fresh fixer for each session. Stainless steel film hangers are pretty cheap on ebay as well. Practice loading them a few times with a junk sheet of film (it's not difficult but you will probably want to try it in the light first). If you do your developing at night you should be able to use a piece of cardboard to block the light from the window. I'd also keep the lights off in the other rooms while you're developing. I use 8x10 tanks in my garage right now (no windows) and haven't had any issues with fogging. I'd start with the recommended one agitation cycle per minute (need a clock that has luminescent hands, I one of the big GraLab you can pick up for about $20 on ebay) as recommended on the Ilford site.

I was nervous about developing my first sheets as well. As soon as I get some C-41 chemistry I want to try developing my own color negatives as well.

Michael Lloyd
10-Jul-2013, 07:54
The most important thing you're missing is fixer; you can't develop film without fixer! Your developers are also a bit old but the powdered ones will be totally fine if they're still in the original foil packets.


My bad, I have Ilford Rapid Fixer. It was right next to the Developer I just missed it. I couldn't believe that I wouldn't have bought fixer so I went back and looked.

How old is too old? The containers are unopened.

polyglot
10-Jul-2013, 16:52
Unopened they're probably fine. The D76 will definitely be fine if sealed, so I would start out with that and make sure you can successfully expose and develop images before moving onto the other developers because it eliminates one more variable. The fixer will be fine too.

Say you used an older developer that has gone off and your first sheet comes up blank: you don't know whether it was a camera/shutter/exposure error, a process error (fixer before developer) or that the developer is dead or diluted incorrectly. Unlike rollfilm, many B&W LF films (especially the cheap ones from Foma and Efke) don't have edge-markings, so you can't confirm that your development at least sort-of worked.

Maybe consider using a lab for your first 2 or 3 sheets; that way you can be confident that you're exposing OK. Or test out your development skills with rollfilm, if you have any 35mm or 120 cameras and suitable spirals for your developing tanks.

JeRuFo
10-Jul-2013, 16:57
Try and find somebody in your neighbourhood that has experience with developing film if you are hesitant. Nothing about it is complicated, you just have to know how to do it. On youtube there are a lot of movies about how to develop too, which might be helpful.

fhovie
10-Jul-2013, 17:00
Yoda had it right though - do - or don't do - no 'try'
If photography is your art and passion, buy chemicals, read the posts and roll your own. A closet will work but eventually you will need half the garage. Ebay has tanks and such - used enlargers are pretty cheap and easy to find. Experiment and come up with what pleases you. There are thousands of combinations and all have their signature look. I wound up with pyrocat-PC-glycol and FP4 for 4x5 and 8x10 and instant Mytol and TRI-X for roll film [120] - those were the combos that worked for me.

Michael Lloyd
19-Jul-2013, 19:44
Well, I just finished my first 4 sheets of 4x5 in the Unicolor drum and the last two are in developer as I type this.

You know how earlier I said that I didn't have any film to practice with? Well I do now :D

I thought that I had a little clip in the drum to keep the sheets from getting on top of one another but apparently I didn't. All in all I've had fun. I hope the last two come out. There are so many variables. Me and all of my inexperience. The film is old. The chemicals were unopened but old. I know that I had one sheet loaded in the holder wrong and another felt odd, like the end was closed on it somehow so those two I expected to be junk. Plus I am almost certain that was the holder that I pulled the wrong darkslide on the second exposure. :confused: So... I've hopefully made all of the mistakes and the next two come out ok.

If nothing else I have started. You can't finish unless you start.

Gotta go, almost time to switch to the stop bath.

Michael Lloyd
19-Jul-2013, 20:28
Success! Sort of. I have what looks like two good negatives but apparently they were in the holder crooked. One was real bad. I definitely need to work on my sheet film loading skills with some of my duds.

It looks like some of the emulsion didn't come off on one of the negs but it may be water. Idk. I'll leave them alone for a bit.

polyglot
19-Jul-2013, 23:45
Err, no emulsion is meant to come off! If some of it looks milky, that means it's not fixed there, which means that the rest of the film is probably under fixed too.

Regular Rod
20-Jul-2013, 02:45
When you get fed up of struggling to make these awkward methods work. When you decide that you want the advantages of being able to control development of your highlights by stand and semi-stand methods. When you get irritated beyond endurance by the damage to the image at the edges of your negatives. When you get sick of all this messing around, you will understand that tray development is best for sheet film. Use the Paterson Orbital Processor and you get rid of all the problems covered in this thread, enjoy all the advantages of tray development but without having to work in the dark and you get to keep your fingers out of the chemicals... (http://freepdfhosting.com/f640343f29.pdf)

RR

Michael Lloyd
20-Jul-2013, 07:01
Err, no emulsion is meant to come off! If some of it looks milky, that means it's not fixed there, which means that the rest of the film is probably under fixed too.

Yeah I can of mis-typed on that one. It was water. Photoflow works pretty good. No spots. No drips, no runs... nada