Epson V700 - getting feet cut off

[kevs-2323668]

I just scanned some 4x5 film and the person's feet is clear, the feet are all there, not cut off, but the scanner seems to cut the bottom of the feet off because the film sits on a ridge about 1/8 of an inch where those feet bottom are. Is that clear? Any ideas on this? thanks!

[Doug Fisher]

It sounds like you are experiencing the common problem where auto-cropping does not work. You will find many references to this problem on the internet. Many people never realize that they are missing part of their image(s) until they get an obvious error like the one you experienced. If they did a careful comparison of most scans though, they would probably be surprised to find how many of their images on film are overly cropped or mis-cropped by the software's auto-cropping. Auto-cropping is nothing more than a "guess" based on an algorithm and it is often fooled.

Most people I know just set a batch scan of manual crops. Correctly set your normal parameters in the “Original,” “Destination,” and “Adjustment” sections of the EpsonScan window. Set the Preview function to “Normal,” not “Thumbnail”!!! (click on the small arrow to the right of the Preview button to change this). Click on Preview. When the preview window opens and displays the preview, click the marquee erase button (top left icon in marquee box of the preview window) until all previous crop boxes are erased. Draw a crop box around the full area of your film sheet. Scan.

Doug

[kevs-2323668]

DOUG, thanks, I did the crop just as you write, but like I said, I''m seeing the feet cut off even before that. It seems that I lose the top of the feet because the 1/16" plastic holder/ ridge that the film has to lie down on — crops that 1/16" part of the film edge....

[Otto Seaman]

If you shot too close to edge of your film then learn not to.

For now, cut a 1/16th off the top of the film and simply slide it further up the Epson holder, let the foot edge dangle free of the holder. Or use one of Doug Fisher's excellent alternative and better film holders for the Epson - or a simple piece of anti-Newton glass - instead of the Epson holder. Or get a drum scan. Those are the options ranked in terms of ascending quality.

[Regular Rod]

Don't let the scanner do anything itself, especially trimming. Use the normal view instead of the thumbnail view. Draw your own marquee. If the film holder masks the negative use the film with film area guide option and lay the negative on the glass at the top right corner of the film area guide.

A good policy is to do everything manually with the V700, no dust correction, no unsharp mask, change the histogram yourself setting the output sliders to zero and 255 then moving the input sliders to get a flat contrast throughout so you get all your negative's information in the file and then you can adjust everything in Photoshop etc.

RR

[Fred L]

or scan it on the glass with the film area guide. emulsion down. you may need a piece of AN glass to keep the sheet flat but this is how I scan my 4x5 on the v700.

[pasiasty]

VueScan has nice feature: you can define a 'border', that is how much, in per-cents, more should be scanned. Recently I switched to doing this, with some pre-set frames, saving raw data, and leaving all post-processing, including cropping, for the next step.

And yes, original Epson software, when allowed to auto-crop, crops a half of the image or so.

[kevs-2323668]

Rod/ Pasisty, don't think you understand what's going on but thanks.

Otto/Fred, I think you guys understand what's happening here

Yes, I have an assistant doing the camera work and will point this out in the future, so there is some space at the bottom in the future.
And if I have a show one day, I'll get drum scans.

But if I want to redo these on the Epson, then:

1) Cut the film
2) Where do you get the Doug Fisher item?
3) same question anti newton glass

[Otto Seaman]

http://www.betterscanning.com sells the nicer quality adjustable height film holders for the Epson as well as good quality Anti-Newton glass.

Highly recommended but not absolutely necessary ;-p I use one of his medium format holders for my occasional/infrequent use of 120 film - holds the film much flatter than the Epson holder.

I also use a piece of Anti-Newton glass held above the platen with four pennies on each corner - the film is taped emulsion side towards the rough Anti-Newton side of the glass so it is layered Scanner Platen > film base > film emulsion > Anti-Newton face down > scanner lid shut. My glass is 9x11 inches and works well for 8x10 or smaller film. I tested it for optimal height with the pennies and layers of Gaffer tape (ten sticks of tape = about one penny). YMMV

[Fred L]

kevs,

I use the AN glass from my Devere 4x5 or 8x10 carriers ;) I would think a good framing shop should have something that would work similarly. Then use the marquee tool to select the framing and bob's your uncle. If I scan several frames of 120, I will use this method as well vs the stock Epson holders. The Lomo DigitaLIZA holders work as well. I just found as you have, that the stock holders don't show the entire frame, unless one were to file down the holders, which leads to other problems lol.

Good luck

[Regular Rod]

Rod/ Pasisty, don't think you understand what's going on but thanks.

Otto/Fred, I think you guys understand what's happening here

Yes, I have an assistant doing the camera work and will point this out in the future, so there is some space at the bottom in the future.
And if I have a show one day, I'll get drum scans.

But if I want to redo these on the Epson, then:

1) Cut the film
2) Where do you get the Doug Fisher item?
3) same question anti newton glass

I'm pretty sure I do understand the problem Kev. That's why I suggested those solutions. You don't need a film holder for 4x5. You can lay the film on the glass with just the film area guide. There is no need to lose any of your negative, including the film edging masked by the dark slide in the camera. You can end up with a file that looks like a contact print. There is also the possibility that the negative holder is not actually masking the feet in your image but the software could be. Especially if you use the thumbnail preview instead of the normal preview option. Trimming automatically sets itself on with the Epson software so that is why I suggested to switch trimming off and instead use the marquee tool from scratch in the normal view. Those feet are being cut off either because the software is doing it, as it needs overriding when you preview and scan, or the film holder is doing it because it is masking too much of your film edge. I'd try scanning with the film on the glass and the film edge guide. I'd certainly never cut the film. If your subject includes something right at the edge of your negatives and it is there on the negative then you can scan it with the V700. You just have to take control of it.
;)
RR

[Otto Seaman]

While you can simply plop the film onto the platen, the Epson is designed to focus somewhere about 2mm above the platen. I say "about" because it is a consumer level machine and people report that optimal focus height on their individual scanner can vary. You have to test it by making scans at various heights and zeroing in on the best height for your scanner (which will not be on the glass).

That's why the Epson holder has two different depth plugs for the base - it's a crude way to optimize the height of the film off the platen. Being anal retentive photographers, most of us want to fine tune it a little better than that.

Using a piece of flat Anti-Newton glass with the film taped (or the Better Scanning holders) allows you to experiment with finding the optimal height and also prevents the film from sagging (so long as you tape it tightly). The Anti-Newton glass does just that - it allows you to avoid the Newton's Rings you'll get if you just put the film on the platen flat.

Yes I will throw an 8x10 onto the platen for proofing but depending on humidity and luck, I will usually get Newton's Rings and that nagging sense that the scan could be a little bit sharper and better quality.

[Fred L]

fwiw, this is a crop from a 120 neg laid emulsion down on the v700 glass using the film guide. Only a thin piece of black paper as a mask and a piece of AN glass on top. Emulsion down means you'll need to flip the image in PS. While not the most amazing scanner out there, MF or LF negs scanned this way produce decent files. Not Imacon quality obviously but for newsprint or online use it works very well.

98413

[kevs-2323668]

Otto: Rod thanks. Don't think it's the software, as I can see the blockage with my own eyes from the Epson holder.
Never done this with glass, so I'll contact that company and see what happens and report back with more questions probably!