Problem with Ekfe IR820?

[zzpza]

I'm pretty new to LF and IR photography, but have been processing my own 35mm and MF for several years. I've taken a few photos using an R72 filter and IR820. I am processing it myself using a MOD54 mk27 holder with a Paterson Super System 4 tank. The problem I am getting is spots on the negative. They are not drying marks as far as I am aware (not visible on the surface and I use RA50 wetting agent).

They are on all the photos I have taken so far, bar the first couple.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2884/9224112587_86a2d836af_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zzpza/9224112587/)
JungWoo45 00009 Waverly Abbey (http://www.flickr.com/photos/zzpza/9224112587/) by zzpza (http://www.flickr.com/people/zzpza/), on Flickr
(My scanner can only do medium format, so this is only part of the negative).

More examples here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/zzpza/sets/72157634280231875/

Is this a manufacturing fault? Or something I am doing?

[Andrew O'Neill]

Do you still get spots in different developers? What is your water quality like? Have you tried using distilled water? I use the same film in 8x10 and have never seen this before. I used to get pin holes occasionally until I started using a very mild stop bath. Your spots are not pinholes, though. They are dark spots and must appear a lighter spots on the negatives... very strange.

[polyglot]

Any chance the film got spattered with something before exposure? That can cause dark spots.

[zzpza]

I've have only tried Rodinal so far. The marks are visible on the negative when I take them out of the dev tank, i.e. when they are wet. I do not believe that they are getting wet before exposure, and have loaded non IR B&W at the same time and location (bath room, after dark) without problem.

From the research I've done this morning (sorry - I was too disappointed last night) it looks like it's a manufacturing defect called 'pepper grain'. The big black dot appears to be a pin hole too.

The film's not cheap (about 100GBP a box of 50 sheets) and is no longer made, so I bought two boxes. I haven't tried the 2nd box yet, but fear it will have the same problem. I've looked at the box and can't find a batch number, but they both have the same expiry date.

There is another 4x5 IR alternative - Rollei IR400 - but the woods effect is not as pronounced. :(

[vinny]

I have seen similar spots on some konica ir once. Don't know what caused it. Where nitrile gloves when handling unprocessed film though.

[Frank R.]

Hello zzpza,
for me it looks like dots resulting from condensed water. Did you freezed your film holders? How do you handle your frozen film holders?
I have my film holders with ir820 in a thermobag together with an ice-package. When I want to take them out to make photos, I have to warm them in a closed plasticbag slowly to the temperature outside. If I don´t give it enough time, there is condensed water on the film holder and I think on the film, too.

Best Regards
Frank

[tgtaylor]

Looks like air bubbles to me.

Curiously I was just reading about this yesterday morning in a turn of the century photography book and the example shown of air bubbles on a plate negative looks similar to yours. The bubbles prevent the proper action of the developer.

Thomas

[Larry Gebhardt]

I have seen similar spots on some of my negatives when I was trying semi stand development in a combi plan. Some of them were on Efke 820, but they were also on Ilford FP4+. Some also seemed to be in the shape of finger prints, so I concluded that, in my case, my finger prints were attracting air bubbles. The semistand development really made these stand out since they wouldn't get removed quickly. My solution was to abandon that method of development and went back to the Jobo with continuos agitation. No idea if that's the cause for you, but trying an increase in agitation is a cheap test.

[tgtaylor]

I enlarged your example and you can see white spots with small dark centers. The photography book that I was reading yesterday (“The Book of Photography” - digitized by Google and a free download on the web) describes these as being:


...The presence of these opaque spots is explained by the fact that the portion of the film not reached by the developer has remained unsoftened, and so fixes more slowly, thus leaving tiny particles of unfixed silver in the middle of the spots...”

Thomas

[Cor]

I have shot a lot of EFKE Ir film I never felt the need to store the film extra cool during a shooting trip.

I do store my stock at -20degC but once loaded I have kept film for almost 1 year on a holder at room temperature (say 22degC max) with no adverse effects other than perhaps a slightly higher B+F.

On the spots: in my hands I see this black spots once in a while: these I attribute to bad quality control of the late EFKE (these spots are perfectly clear on the neg, I assume there was no emulsion at al)

On the other spots: can be air bubbles as suggested.

Did you pre- rinse with distilled water at the right temperature?

Did you bang the Patterson tank on the table to dislodge any trapped air-bubbles ?

Good luck,

Cor