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Michael Lloyd
6-Jul-2013, 09:24
I have decided that I am phobic about loading film holders. I have a Linhof Master Technika, a nice array of lenses all on lens boards, film, dark cloth, loading tent, and the desire to shoot 4x5 film every now and then. I have shot a few Fugi-roid images with the Linhof so it's not a matter of not knowing how to use the camera. But when it comes time to load "real film" in holders I never seem to get to it. I have this stuff for years so I figured that it's time to ask for help.

Does anyone have any recommendations for learning to load holders. I'm afraid that I'll end up ruining a pack of film. I would rather hose the film up because I screwed up exposure, focus, or composition rather than during the loading process.

Robert Oliver
6-Jul-2013, 09:31
It's all part of the process.. to me no different than making a mistake in any other part of the process.

Get a couple of ruined sheets and practice loading in daylight... then close your eyes...

Jerry Bodine
6-Jul-2013, 09:34
Excellent illustrated article here (http://www.butzi.net/articles/filmload.htm).

Robert Oliver
6-Jul-2013, 09:37
It's also good to rehearse your movements and memorize item locations in your loading area before turning off lights.

Michael Lloyd
6-Jul-2013, 09:50
"In order to finish, you have to start"

I guess I better start. I don't have any ruined sheets Robert. But I'm sure that I can ruin some :)

Thanks Jerry. I'll check out the video. Hopefully I'll be posting an LF image here some day. In 2013. I hope.

Jerry Bodine
6-Jul-2013, 09:53
I'll check out the video.

Sorry about any confusion here. I edited my post to "article" NOT "video." Whenever I want to learn a technique I always prefer the "show me, don't just tell me" method.

Michael Lloyd
6-Jul-2013, 09:57
It's all good. I'm reading through it now. Good stuff! Thanks for posting the link

I really liked the way he started off

"When I started using large format, the hurdle of successfully loading film holders loomed large in my mind. This seems to be the case for other people, too, although in reality, loading holders is so simple, it's not worth a moment's worry. Still, it all must be done in the dark, you need to open up a box of film that cost, say, 50 bucks, and you don't know what to expect."

Exactly what I feel like...

David Karp
6-Jul-2013, 10:00
Eventually, you will do it without hardly thinking about it. flip open the trap door, feel for the rails, find the notch code and make sure it is in the right position, slide the film into the holder, close the dark slide. Repeat. It becomes second nature.

fecaleagle
6-Jul-2013, 10:02
My biggest concern when I started was about leaving fingerprints on my sheet film while loading it. I started wearing nitrile gloves while loading, which took away half of the anxiety immediately. Once you shed the anxiety over loading, the apparent difficulties of loading film pretty much melt away. It may seem strange to the guys who've been doing it for years, but I can totally relate to your concerns. These days, I load film all the time without putting a fingertip on the emulsion, but I still wear my gloves, just because it feels comfortable to me. You just have to go for it and realize that ruining a few negatives isn't the end of the world. I've ruined far more negatives in exposure/processing than I could have ever dreamt of ruining in loading.

Good luck! You really won't need it, just be brave! :)

fecaleagle
6-Jul-2013, 10:08
As far as ruining a whole box of film, just make sure the space you're loading in is DARK, and the worst you can do is leave a scratch or fingerprint on the sheet or two that you're loading into a holder. No sense worrying about the rest of the box yet. ;)

Michael Lloyd
6-Jul-2013, 10:13
I have one of those light proof tent setups and if I remember right the "gloves" are built in. I'm going to load my holders this evening and go shoot tomorrow. I've made my mind up...

Mark Barendt
6-Jul-2013, 10:22
Film is forgiving, I once loaded the holders emulsion down, away from the lens, with some HP5 and the images still turned out fine.

98278

Sacrifice a sheet or two to practice with, first with eyes open, then closed, then in the dark bag/tent/room.

Keep things clean, get the orientation right, get the dark slide in right so that you know it's ready to shoot. I use the white side to indicate not-shot yet and black to say been shot.

The biggest waste of film is not using it.

Jac@stafford.net
6-Jul-2013, 10:46
As mentioned, it is important to place your holders and the opened film box in the same place every time, and oriented the same. Soon your movements to them will be intuitive. Also be sure the white side of the slides are facing outward. Then it is simply load, close. It will become simple rather quickly.

I found that I gained a 'seeing in the dark' sense. Even though I could not see, I thought I did because everything was exactly where I had set it up. You might find the same.

Best of luck!

Jerry Bodine
6-Jul-2013, 11:01
I would add one thing to the Butzi article - keeping the holders free of dust and debris. If your holders are new in box, then it problably isn't necessary to clean them. But if you're working with used ones, I wouldn't assume they're clean. When I first started shooting large format many years ago, I went on a backpacking trip for a week of shooting 4x5 films and using a changing bag to reload holders. Some of the negatives were ruined because of dust on the film. I traced this to a changing bag that hadn't been cleaned out often enough - they need this frequently. Also, the holders and darkslides need to be clean when loading. Some here clean them after each use. I clean them out (not in the darkroom), using compressed air from a compressor that I used for spray painting large areas - it has a nozzle on the hose to concentrate the jet for a really good blast into crevices. The light trap in the holders where the darkslide enters also traps debris that must be blown thoroughly.

Heroique
6-Jul-2013, 11:22
...just be brave!

Bravery is indeed a key virtue, since goblins in the dark can take anyone’s mind off the task. Their presence doesn’t depend on how careful you are. However, the glowing arms of a darkroom clock, over there in the corner, is soothing and helps keep them at bay.


I would add one thing to the Butzi article - keeping the holders free of dust and debris.

Yes, and one of the most effective steps to loading holders successfully is taking precautions when you’re not actually loading them at all. A quick example – when you’re in the field taking a shot, reduce the amount of time a holder is in the air. This is among the most neglected of field habits, even by the most careful of photographers. Only when I’m ready for a shutter click do I remove the holder from its protective zip-lock bag. And after the click, back into the zip-lock bag it goes. Immediately. It makes the future job of unloading/loading holders more successful, when the measure of success is the amount of dust that gets on the film.

photobymike
6-Jul-2013, 12:30
practice practice practice ..... load some sheets in daylight so you can feel how the film slides under the holding rails... then practice practice and then try it again...... having finger nails helps also.... load holding the film with the right hand and the notches on the top right side .... then again screw it ... just get a roll film back for the Linhof

jk0592
6-Jul-2013, 13:03
The very first time I was confronted with a box of 4x5 film was very stressful. After retrieving film from it, was not sure if I had closed the box properly, with film in the right paper envelopes. So I put the box in a changing bag, rolled it up, and stored it in a drawer...No matter what I read about it before, no matter what I had seen on youtube, no matter that the dry side of the darkroom is adequately large and is very clean, and the darkroom is really dark, and I have not forgotten to hide the gralab300 in a closed cabinet, still fear of wasting the entire box of film is behind my mind...
Only very methodical practice can make loading film holders a safe procedure.

fecaleagle
6-Jul-2013, 13:38
No matter what I read about it before, no matter what I had seen on youtube, no matter that the dry side of the darkroom is adequately large and is very clean, and the darkroom is really dark, and I have not forgotten to hide the gralab300 in a closed cabinet, still fear of wasting the entire box of film is behind my mind...

In spite of the fact that my darkroom is a dedicated one, I still load in the darkroom closet (and at night) if it is at all possible. Paranoia consistently pays off in large format photography, provided that it doesn't interfere with moving forward.

Michael E
6-Jul-2013, 15:50
In spite of the fact that my darkroom is a dedicated one, I still load in the darkroom closet (and at night) if it is at all possible. Paranoia consistently pays off in large format photography, provided that it doesn't interfere with moving forward.

I have loaded 400 speed film while it was bright enough to see the film - several times, on trips without a proper darkroom. Never found any evidence on my negatives. Film really is forgiving.

Michael, if you don't have any ruined sheets, you have done something wrong. Make sure you handle enough film to give yourself a chance to ruin a sheet every once in a while.

ROL
6-Jul-2013, 16:32
Does anyone have any recommendations for learning to load holders. I'm afraid that I'll end up ruining a pack of film.

We we're all there once. Loading and unloading film of any kind can be frightening until one gets used to the procedures. Better to screw up while loading unexposed film than while unloading exposed film! Use, or go out and buy, cheap film only for the purposes of learning. Sacrifice a sheet or two from the box and begin practicing in the light until you can do it with your eyes closed. Then, it's only a matter of getting everything conveniently together so you can find the boxes, film and holders in the dark. You will never even miss the practice sheets. Then, use the rest of the box to go out and shoot. In this regard, all film is good. You may then apply for the coveted Large Format Merit of Achievement, awarded only to photographers who load and process their own film.


...I screwed up exposure, focus, or composition...

Happens to me all the time.

bobwysiwyg
6-Jul-2013, 17:47
I have decided that I am phobic about loading film holders. I have a Linhof Master Technika, a nice array of lenses all on lens boards, film, dark cloth, loading tent, and the desire to shoot 4x5 film every now and then. I have shot a few Fugi-roid images with the Linhof so it's not a matter of not knowing how to use the camera. But when it comes time to load "real film" in holders I never seem to get to it. I have this stuff for years so I figured that it's time to ask for help.

Does anyone have any recommendations for learning to load holders. I'm afraid that I'll end up ruining a pack of film. I would rather hose the film up because I screwed up exposure, focus, or composition rather than during the loading process.

Have look at this.

http://m.youtube.com/#/watch?v=ikOI1XLBxqA&desktop_uri=%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DikOI1XLBxqA

Robert Oliver
6-Jul-2013, 18:22
Where do I apply to get my LARGE FORMAT MERIT OF ACHIEVEMENT?



We we're all there once. Loading and unloading film of any kind can be frightening until one gets used to the procedures. Better to screw up while loading unexposed film than while unloading exposed film! Use, or go out and buy, cheap film only for the purposes of learning. Sacrifice a sheet or two from the box and begin practicing in the light until you can do it with your eyes closed. Then, it's only a matter of getting everything conveniently together so you can find the boxes, film and holders in the dark. You will never even miss the practice sheets. Then, use the rest of the box to go out and shoot. In this regard, all film is good. You may then apply for the coveted Large Format Merit of Achievement, awarded only to photographers who load and process their own film.



Happens to me all the time.

Jim Andrada
6-Jul-2013, 19:06
Right here on the forum:<))

AA+
7-Jul-2013, 13:14
My technique after 40 years of loading 5x7 is to
-1- in the light, pull out the slide (black side) completely and replace it (white side) while looking at a specular reflection of a light against the holder body black plastic. I look for dust and blow it off carefully if present. Sometimes I wipe it off with my finger carefully.
-2- in the dark, pull the slide half down toward me, the open part of the holder away from me.
-3- open the flap, insert film emulsion side up (orienting the notches to the top right side)
-4- slide my thumbs down the side rails from the insertion end, feel with my two thumbs for the two sharp corners of plastic which secures the film within the holder. If one thumb fails to feel a sharp corner, then I failed to catch the film within the securing plastic and I must pull out the film and try to reload it once again.
-5- after feeling both sharp corners with thumbs, close the flap, close the slide securely.

As one loads film be sure nothing distracts you and count carefully the pieces of film as you insert them. As I do 10 sheets at a time, the first sheet is tough, but succeeding sheets go better.

Best wishes --- Allen

TXFZ1
7-Jul-2013, 13:50
If I am loading in a tent, I throughly wash my hands in cold water. This seems to give me enough time to load 5 holders before my hands start sweating.

I never unload and load in the same tent session. I inspect and clean the holders in-between or right before I load film.

I use plastic bags with old business cards to label empty holders or loaded holders with "x" film. This helps identify between empty and exposed holders.

Noticed in the video that he did not mention the raised "braille bumps" on the "white" side of the darkslide (I didn't watch part II). I use these to check after loading film.

Save the white cardboard separators, as they can be used to contact print with different times on one sheet of paper. Set your timer for the longest and then cover the negs as their time is reached.

In the darkroom, I still close my eyes! My first box of 50 shts, I got maybe 15 negatives with the rest of double exposure, fogged film, and fb+f test sheets.

David

Mark Barendt
7-Jul-2013, 14:08
If I am loading in a tent, I throughly wash my hands in cold water. This seems to give me enough time to load 5 holders before my hands start sweating.

Another trick to avoid sweaty hands becoming a problem are surgical gloves or similar. Doesn't stop the sweating, does stop the problem.

biedron
7-Jul-2013, 15:40
My technique after 40 years of loading 5x7 is to
-3- open the flap, insert film emulsion side up (orienting the notches to the top right side)


To the OP: note that the above positioning of the notches assumes that the film holder is in portrait orientation as you face, with the open flap at the top.

Bob

Michael Lloyd
7-Jul-2013, 16:51
ME: about 2 hours ago- "That's it... that's all there is to it? I've waited all this time because of that?"

Thanks a bunch for all of the advice and encouragement. I couldn't find my tent last night so I didn't load holders until this morning (went right to the tent location when I got up). I loaded 3 holders. I had planned to load 6 but my hands and arms started to get warm and I was afraid of humidity and sweat messing something up.

I loaded the holders with Ilford 100 Delta Professional Black and White film. I've had it for a while. It's been in a little igloo cooler along with some quickloads and a couple of other boxes of Ilford that I don't feel like looking up (one is 400 but I don't remember what the other is). I am not 100% confident that it's still good but I guess that I'll find out. Once my arms recovered from patting myself on the back I tackled the next task... remembering how to use the Linhof. It ain't no digital camera that's for sure. First problem... lens selection. I remembered that 90mm in a 4x5 is wide angle but that was about it. My lens choices were-

90mm Rodenstock f6.8
110mm Schneider f5.6
150mm Rodenstock f5.6
210mm Nikon Copal f5.6

I went with 210mm. My subject was my barn (4 images) and some oak trees in the neighbors pasture (2 images). It's pretty cloudy here today and every time I metered the gray on my barn I got 1/15 @f22. When I metered the grass in front of the trees I got 1/15th @f22. It's pretty dry here so the grass is pretty close to gray in the black and white world. So in every case my first frame was exposed at 1/15 @f22. If my zone system "learnin" is correct, based on what my shadows metered, the shadows should be about zone 3. So, I opened up a stop to f8 for the second shot for each holder. The idea there was that I could open the shadows up and lower the exposure in "post" whether that is in the wet darkroom or digital. That was my thought process as I worked my way around the pasture. That and watching the storm that was coming up fron the SE.

So... it sounds like I did everything perfect and all went well. Uh yeah right... When I shot the last holder I lost my train of thought due to some fairly close thunder. I'm pretty sure that I exposed the first piece of film right but I'm almost positive that I pulled the rear dark slide when I exposed the second sheet. Why do I think that? When I exposed the first sheet I'm pretty sure that I turned the little catch. Then I flipped the holder and got ready for shot #2. When I went to pull the dark slide the catch was turned. I am absolutely positive that I flipped the holder so I'm pretty sure that I pulled the wrong dark slide :cool: So now I should have at least one sheet of film to practice loading holders with.

I don't have a darkroom. No place to put one either. Not yet anyway. I wish that I did. I have a friend that I see at photo club once a month that has a wet darkroom. I'm going to try to talk him into either working with me to develop the negatives or do it for me. I would rather work with him but we'll see. I have a negative attachment for my Epson 10000 XL scanner so I'll just scan my negs vs wet printing. Unless he volunteers to show me that.

I ordered a box of TMax 100. I'm sure glad that film didn't die...

Time to unload holders.

Mark Barendt
7-Jul-2013, 16:57
Yea!

Weihan
7-Jul-2013, 19:04
I can share your phobia somewhat, but with me it's the incapacitating fear (no, not really :p) of DUST and fingerprints. (I can highly recommend non-powder plastic gloves.) If you're using a changing tent and different types of film, make sure you have all your film separated and load one type at a time. Otherwise, you'll have your Portra 160 mixed up with your Velvia 50 / 100 and your Ektar 100 (if you're shooting color). And THAT is a mess because you won't know what to expose how long. I put in extra large ziploc bags into the changing tent with the film and holders and once I've loaded both sides of the holder, I slipt it into the ziploc. Repeat as needed.
It's also a great help to note the braille-like raised dots on the outside top (i.e., the unexposed side of the dark slide). The moment you've loaded the film under the rails and have closed the flap, put in the dark slide with the raised dots (which you can feel!) so that they are facing outside. As previous contributors noted, the standard convention is to have the silver = white side of the dark slide facing out when the film is unexposed, and then to turn it over when you replace it after exposing the film so that the black side is then facing out.

John Kasaian
7-Jul-2013, 20:25
Get a scrap piece of film or a bad negative and practice loading the holder in the light, get into the habit of feeling for the notches and what it feels like when you've "made" the rails. When you've done it dozen or so times, repeat with your eyes closed.
Piece of cake!
If you're still worried about loosing the box of film in one tragic mistake, then leave the unused film inside the black light tight envelope and remove the sheets one at a time, fold the end of the envelope over, load the holder, drive home the dark slide lock it with the ell, flip it over, remove another sheet from the envelope, repeat.
I stack my empty holders with the traps open and slides partially pulled with the dark side of the handle "out" (the loading area and the holders are free of dust, of course) so once sheet is loaded, I can replace the slide into the flap, lock it in with the ell sand flip it over to reload the other side then put the holder aside and work on the next one. Handle the film by the edges and you can support the sheet by touching the uncoated side with no ill effects.
Have fun!

Jim Galli
7-Jul-2013, 20:48
Buy an 8X10. Then the 4X5 holders will seem like child's play.

C. D. Keth
7-Jul-2013, 22:47
I load 4x5 with thumb and middle finger on the very side edge and my forefinger on the notch code. That leaves my left hand to put finger and thumb at the start of each track to make sure the film goes under. I wash my hands before loading so they're not particularly oily. I've never seen fingerprints on my negatives.

Just relax and do it. If you screw it up, it's a dollar or so and good incentive to get it right next time.

Daniel Stone
7-Jul-2013, 23:13
Buy an 8X10. Then the 4X5 holders will seem like child's play.

couldn't have said it any better myself, Jim!

:)

Otto Seaman
7-Jul-2013, 23:31
I don't see why you would need gloves since you really don't have to touch the image making area of the film at any time. Maybe my plump fingers swell over onto the emulsion a millimeter or so but hopefully you know not to try to frame that precisely close to the edges already?

Also, well most people are concerned about dust and rightfully so, I have seen some filthy film holders in my day... you don't want to become obsessive. You only need clean, not perfect. Heck a little natural oil on your hands is not a bad thing - it keeps skin particles from flaking off.

Sometimes brand new holders come out of their box dirty with manufacturing residue. The best holders are used, broken in, and never allowed to get dirty in the first place. With mine, I keep them in Ziplocs, and make a quick pass with an Anti-Static brush to remove any new residue.

Send your film in to a lab (Praus or somebody good) and get it on! Good luck, a Technika is a shame to waste.

Joe Wright
8-Jul-2013, 01:05
be sure nothing distracts you

Yes, especially times like:
- The postman arriving at the door expecting a signature when you have your arms in the tent half-way through loading a box of 10x8 sheets
- Your wife threatening to tickle you 'cos you look weird with your arms stuck in the tent with that look of concentration on your face
- Your malting long haired cat sitting on your nice clean film holders just as you go to put them in the tent.
- Finding your cat curled up inside your tent after fetching another box of film to load
- add your own...

Otherwise, to the OP, in a few months time you'll wonder what all the fuss was about and you'll be able to load film standing on one leg whilst balancing your camera on your head... bit like riding a bike I guess ;)

Daniel Stone
8-Jul-2013, 03:01
@ Joe:

Do YOU have a garage, or a workshop w/ space to set up(or already have) a table?

that way you can be free of the wife, the cat(s) and the postman :)

problem solved. put some good music on and load away!

-Dan

Joe Wright
8-Jul-2013, 09:04
@ Dan:


Do YOU have a garage, or a workshop w/ space to set up(or already have) a table?
Sadly not, plans afoot to address that though


free of the wife, the cat(s) and the postman :)
I'm sure the wife and cat frequently wish they could be free of me but I could never do without the postman! ;)