Another Thread about Making Bellows...

[fecaleagle]

Custom Bellows in the UK gave me an excellent quote (~280 USD after shipping both ways) on a set of 5x7 Bellows for my Ansco. But, I am leaning toward constructing them myself with two layers of Thorlabs BK5 and gluing them with HH-66 cement. I am using the excellent Bellows Contruction (http://www.jbhphoto.com/articles/bellows/bbuildingjbh2008.pdf) tutorial by J.B. Harlin, available freely from the articles section (http://www.jbhphoto.com/articles/article.htm) of his site.

I feel reasonably confident, being somewhat meticulous and handy, that I can construct a proper set of bellows for around 100 USD, which will save me about 180 USD and not necessitate sending my frames off to merry old England for up to 4 weeks. Cost is a factor here, but constructing bellows is also a skill set that I've always wanted to learn, and I think it might be a good experience.

I have read through the various threads in the DIY section about this matter, and I am thankful to those who've endured the long discussions on materials and reported back their results. I think BK5/HH-66 seems like the way to go, even if it's a bit pricey. My biggest question is about the seam on the fourth side that joins the two ends of the pattern. Harlin's pattern, shown in a diagram on page 21 (his page numbers, not the document's), along with the supporting documentation indicates that the pattern is 5 sections, and when creating the fourth side, the two sections on the ends are cut and the seam is formed diagonally. This can be seen on pages 27 and 28. I understand why the seam needs to run diagonally, and this all makes sense to me, but the pictures in figure 21 do not seem to indicate a diagonal seam. Am I crazy here? Regardless, I can ignore the pictures and create a diagonal seam as instructed, but I am beginning to wonder whether I am just missing some critical piece of understanding.

Hoping that somebody who has been through a bellows construction "à la mode de" Harlin can talk me through this part. A hundred dollar investment is not completely insignificant for me, and although I will be constructing at least one paper model first, I am hoping for some pointers/encouragement.

-William

[Jim C.]

I used J.B. Harlans' tutorial as a guide, what I wound up doing was making quite a few paper patterns and paper models
to test the fit on the frames and play with the seam, which was the case with my 5 x 7 Kodak 2D which did not come
with bellows. If you still have the old bellows for your Ansco, use it for your pattern, I did that with my
1901 8 x 10 Kodak 2D, and it's pretty spot on. The seam varies with camera models and manufacturers, a diagonal seam
will fold flatter than a straight one, so rather than try to figure out what Harlan did, settle on one or if you still have
the old bellows follow that.

Another option for the bellows liner is pneumatic bellows cloth for player pianos, it's a little easier to handle than the
tissue paper thin BK5, try Player Piano Parts (316) 264 -0033, I think it's the # 50 cloth, black rubberized nylon, .008 thick.

[fecaleagle]

Great suggestions! I have saved the original bellows, but they were torn from the rear frames, with some missing sections and ribs, so I am thinking I will draw up a new pattern from scratch, using the original fold widths and rib spacings.

I will certainly look into that pneumatic bellows cloth, but you are suggesting to use one layer of BK5 and one of that for the liner, correct?

Thanks for all of your suggestions! I really appreciate it.

Edit: Based on the costs that I'm finding online for the player piano cloth, I think I will stick with the BK5. Given that it (BK5) is "tissue paper thin", how would you rate it's strength and liability to tear or pinhole?

[vinny]

if you decide not to go for it, Rudy at ecbuyonline on ebay does nice work and would cost you less than others (my custom 8x10 bellows were $180 including shipping).

[Steve Smith]

I have lost track of who has seen my page on bellows making. So at the risk of being accused of self promotion, here it is!

http://stevesmithphoto.webs.com/bellows.html


Steve.

[fecaleagle]

if you decide not to go for it, Rudy at ecbuyonline on ebay does nice work and would cost you less than others (my custom 8x10 bellows were $180 including shipping).

Yeah, I was weighing that option heavily for the cost, but I think this is something that I would really like to learn how to do on my own. I've already stripped and restored the entire camera screw for screw, so it does seem appropriate at this point to be making bellows. I just hope that I can make them half as nice as ecbuyonline's, which I am guessing they won't be. But I bet I can make them 1/3 as nice as Custom Bellows'! As long as I can craft something 100% functional in fewer than 30 hours of total time invested, I think I'll be satisfied.

Thanks for the input!


I have lost track of who has seen my page on bellows making. So at the risk of being accused of self promotion, here it is!

http://stevesmithphoto.webs.com/bellows.html
Steve.

I had not seen your page yet, but I will certainly spend some time looking through it. Lucky you having access to a laser cutter. I will be cutting ribs by hand with an angle-cutter.

Thanks for the link and for putting that page together. More pictures/approaches are always helpful. Maybe I missed it, but what cloth materials did you use for the inner and outer linings?

[Jim C.]

Steve< I don't think I ever saw your page on bellows making when I was researching,
the laser cutter certainly makes it easy to lay the ribs in :)

[Jim C.]

Great suggestions! I have saved the original bellows, but they were torn from the rear frames, with some missing sections and ribs, so I am thinking I will draw up a new pattern from scratch, using the original fold widths and rib spacings.

Find the original seams and open it up, I'd try a damp warm cloth first to get at the glue, it may be assembled with hide glue which is reversible
with damp heat, otherwise it's solvent. You'll need to press out the flayed out bellows overnight between boards to flatten it so it's manageable to
pull a tracing off. If the ribs are decent shape reuse them, which is what I'm doing with tiny bellows that were on my 5 x 7 graflex, you'll only need to make
the missing ones.



I will certainly look into that pneumatic bellows cloth, but you are suggesting to use one layer of BK5 and one of that for the liner, correct?

Edit: Based on the costs that I'm finding online for the player piano cloth, I think I will stick with the BK5. Given that it (BK5) is "tissue paper thin", how would you rate it's strength and liability to tear or pinhole?

Nope, the bellows cloth is the inner liner, either case you'll still need to cover them with an outer layer, even if you decide use the BK5 you definitely need an outer covering.
Don't go by online prices for the pneumatic bellows cloth, call Player Piano , I panic bought a few yards in Feb from them and I seem to recall it was $50 a yard ?
I'd have to dig out the invoice to be sure, but it's not that much more than the BK5.
You have seen my tests with the BK5 here ?
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?58015-Wetplate-darkbox-shroud-camera-bellows-liner-replacement-fabric-found
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?58015-Wetplate-darkbox-shroud-camera-bellows-liner-replacement-fabric-found/page2

[fecaleagle]

Nope, the bellows cloth is the inner liner, either case you'll still need to cover them with an outer layer, even if you decide use the BK5 you definitely need an outer covering.
Don't go by online prices for the pneumatic bellows cloth, call Player Piano , I panic bought a few yards in Feb from them and I seem to recall it was $50 a yard ?
I'd have to dig out the invoice to be sure, but it's not that much more than the BK5.
You have seen my tests with the BK5 here ?
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?58015-Wetplate-darkbox-shroud-camera-bellows-liner-replacement-fabric-found
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?58015-Wetplate-darkbox-shroud-camera-bellows-liner-replacement-fabric-found/page2

Thanks for the tips. I will read through those posts, but I was planning on using BK5 as an inner and outer liner, because I've heard that two layers is pretty much bullet-proof in terms of light leakage/opaqueness. This has been tremendously helpful. I sometimes forget how much more valuable experience is than research.

Edit: When building bellows, I'm assuming you apply the glue to the rubberized sides of the materials. So for two layers of BK5, I'll be using HH-66 Vinyl Cement and putting the rubberized sides together. Does that sound right to you? Sorry if the questions are getting tedious, I'm just trying to cover all of my bases.

I see that you mentioned elsewhere that the cloth side of the BK5 is not totally matte... I guess I will need to think some more about this approach and determine whether HH-66 will effectively bond a rubberized side to a cloth side, because I will obviously want to use a rubberized side internally if reflected light is a potential problem.

[Jim C.]

The fabric side is what you want to face in, it's not dead matte but in a dark tunnel like bellows it should be matte enough
the BK5 is super glossy on the rubberized side, think patent leather like gloss, very bad imo if it's inside.
Every leather bellows I've ever seen has the fabric weave on the inside, the exception is fabric covered bellows.
Watch out for the BK5 to pucker when the HH-66 goes on, you may want to consider 3M vinyl sprayment, another member ( BarryS ? )
had good luck using that with the BK5.

[fecaleagle]

I had read the other thread with the post about the spray adhesive and the potential for puckering with the HH-66. I prefer something I can brush or roll-on, and there is another report that the puckering is not appreciable unless you lay it on very heavily. I haven't seen (or ordered) the BK5 yet, so I wasn't quite sure what to expect. Thanks for pointing me straight again. I think I am actually out of questions for the time being, but boy do I appreciate all of your help!

[Dan Dozer]

I have made my own bellows for cameras from 4 x 5 up to 8 x 20. It a fun process and not all that difficult. Here are some tips of mine:

You don't need a very thick material for the ribs. I used tag board I got from Micheal's Craft store.

For the bellows material - the two that I like the most for the exterior are imitation leather (if you can find it thin enough) or tight weave black egyptian cotton. Both I found at Joanne's Fabric for pretty cheap. For the interior, I recommend drapery liner material that is light tight also at Joanne's. This stuff only costs a few dollars per yard at most. I could only find white drapery liner. I painted it with a simple jar fo black paint from Home Depot and it worked great. The draper liner is pretty thin and folds very easily when the two layers are glued together.

For gluing the bellows, I used some real cheap glue I got at the drug store. It's a tube of clear glue about 8" long that I got in the school supply section. You don't need anything fancy for gluing the bellows.

Glueing the bellows seam together is a little tricky. You don't want any kind of glue that dries fast (like contact cement). I made a long box type of frame the length and shape of the bellows out of foam core and wrapped the bellows around it to glue it. I think it made the job easier.

It's important that the final glued bellows is just the right size to attach to both frames and gluing to the frames is a little tricky also. Can't really recommend best way to do it, just take your time and be careful. If you get things crooked a little, your bellows will be crooked on the camera.

When you fold up the bellows after all the gluing is done, after it's folded, weight it down for a couple of days with a couple of heavy books. That will help it set it's shape.

Make it an inch or two longer than you think you need. You really don't want the bellows stretched out to the absolute max with close up shots or longer lenses.

If you shop around at Fabric shops and craft stores, you should be able to find everying you need for a 5 x 7 bellows for less than about $30.

Hope this all helps.

[fecaleagle]

Thanks for this advice, Dan. I was thinking about going with the expensive stuff only because I use the blackout fabric from the fabric store in my darkroom, and after a couple of minutes with the lights out in the daytime, I have noticed that it is not nearly opaque in direct sun. For bellows I figure it might be worth the investment in the pricier blackout fabric, even with the additional liner. I have also noticed with the fabric store stuff that the rubberized (opaque) side, pinholes form rather easily when rolling or folding the fabric. Hopefully I am not falling subject to the "price-equals-cost" fallacy here, but I sincerely appreciate the advice and your experiences with the actual construction process. You have all been exceedingly helpful.

William

[fecaleagle]

Hah, "price-equals-quality" fallacy, I meant. I expect price to be roughly equivalent to cost in most situations, labor and being in the doghouse with my fianceé costs excepted.

[DKirk]

I have lost track of who has seen my page on bellows making. So at the risk of being accused of self promotion, here it is!

http://stevesmithphoto.webs.com/bellows.html


Steve.

Cheers for posting the link Steve, now all I need to do now is figure out how long to make them. Oh and find a flat space that's long enough. . .