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View Full Version : FP4+ and Acros100 in Pyrocat HD - Glycol



LuisR
1-Jul-2013, 19:10
I am posting this to determine if other members of the forum can corraborate my observation as described below concerning developing FP4+ and Acros100 in Pyrocat HD - Glycol or if there is something wrong with my processing. Development procedure is identical for both films with the exception of the development time:

1-Develop for the requisite time in Pyrocat HD - Glycol at 68 degrees. Disposed developer has light yellow tint when used with FP4+ and a light blue color when used with Acros100.
2-Two water rinses 30 seconds apart.
3-Fixing in TF-4 for 5 minutes
4-Washing film for 20 minutes in running water

FP4+: Exhibits light brown staining, very tight grain (upon scanning), edges between tones appear sharply deliniated.

Acros100: No staining observed, grain, edges, and overall appearance is generally indistinguishable with same film developed in Rodinal.

Based on these observations and the results from scanning both films, I wonder if there are any benefits in developing Acros100 with Pyro HD. For that matter, since FP4+ in 4x5 is half the cost of Acros100, its starting to make sense to use FP4+ exclusively.

Can anyone corraborate these observations?

On another note, does anyone have an idea why Ilford PanF is not made in 4x5? Its a real shame its not available in 4x5 because it has incredible fine grain in medium format, and would make a 4x5 photo rival an 8x10.

jp
1-Jul-2013, 19:31
Acros 100 will have better reciprocity for long exposures. It has (I think) a slightly different spectral response. Acros will have finer grain because it's not a traditional grain film. I have a hard time visually judging acros negatives compared to other film for some reason.

That said, I like fp4+ and pyrocat-hd just fine and think it's a great combination for that speed. You are not making a mistake to like this and use it much. I like tmy2+pyrocat-hd better for it's finer grain and other miraculous qualities, but it's sometimes too fast for normal summer daylight use.

Andrew O'Neill
1-Jul-2013, 20:28
I don't see a slight yellow tint in the disposed developer after developing FP4+. What dilution are you using for Acros? Perhaps you could try doubling up on A and B solutions to get more stain. That is what I have been doing for years with HP5+.

tgtaylor
1-Jul-2013, 21:33
Just this past Sunday I developed my first 120 roll of Acros in Pyrocat-HD 1:1:100, 70F for 12 minutes by inversion in a Jobo 1500 tank. Absently minded I poured in the hypo clear (homemade with sodium sulfite) instead of the fix but I caught that right away and gave the roll a good washing and then fixed for 5 minutes with TF5 and then 2 minutes in HC followed by 5 minute wash. (I haven't made that mistake in years!). The negatives came out well developed but no stain.

Kirk Gittings
1-Jul-2013, 21:58
hmmmm I get a light chocolate stain on Acros with PC HD in Glycol.

Larry Gebhardt
2-Jul-2013, 04:36
I think Acros develops image forming stain in Pyrocat, but since it has very low base fog on a very thin and clear base you see no stain in the clear areas. This makes my Acros negs look much less stained than the FP4 or TXTP negs. I think the real issue is that the FP4 has too much stain that only raises the base density. Not really an issue in printing, but it does make the exposures longer.

LuisR
2-Jul-2013, 05:21
[QUOTE=What dilution are you using for Acros?[/QUOTE]

The dilution I use with Pyrocat HD is 1+1+100 for both films. My issue is not with FP4+ but rather with Acros100.

LuisR
2-Jul-2013, 05:30
I think Acros develops image forming stain in Pyrocat, but since it has very low base fog on a very thin and clear base you see no stain in the clear areas. This makes my Acros negs look much less stained than the FP4 or TXTP negs. I think the real issue is that the FP4 has too much stain that only raises the base density. Not really an issue in printing, but it does make the exposures longer.

From what it appears to me Pyrocat HD is not forming fog on the FP4+ negs, film is very clear where there is no exposure.

LuisR
2-Jul-2013, 05:37
Does one film give you better final prints than the other?

Subjectively, I am preferring FP4+ for 4x5. However Acros100 is really good in medium format, 6x7 and 6x9. On the other hand, PanF is stunning in both of those medium formats. This is the reason for my inquiry into why its not available in 4x5, because the results would be mindblowing.

sanking
2-Jul-2013, 05:50
Subjectively, I am preferring FP4+ for 4x5. However Acros100 is really good in medium format, 6x7 and 6x9. On the other hand, PanF is stunning in both of those medium formats. This is the reason for my inquiry into why its not available in 4x5, because the results would be mindblowing.

Acros is my favorite film for medium format and I develop all of it Pyrocat-HD. The stain may seem neutral in color but if it is still quite strong if measured with a UV denstitometer, assuming normal exposure and development. The outstanding advantage of Acros over FP4 is its great resistance to reciprocity failure. I have found in many cases that because of this feature effective exposures are often shorter with Acros in low lighting conditions than with traditional films like FP4 and HP5 where considerable adjustments have to be made to account for reciprocity. When developed in Pyrocat-HF Acros has extremely fine grain and outstanding acutance.

Sandy

Peter Gomena
2-Jul-2013, 07:19
LuisR, I remember Simon Galley of Ilford saying on the APUG forum that FP4+ is not available in sheet film because of problems finding a suitable base for it. He didn't go into any detail beyond saying it wasn't either possible, practical or economical.

Kirk Gittings
2-Jul-2013, 07:25
LuisR, I remember Simon Galley of Ilford saying on the APUG forum that FP4+ is not available in sheet film because of problems finding a suitable base for it. He didn't go into any detail beyond saying it wasn't either possible, practical or economical.

Did you mean Pan F?

tgtaylor
2-Jul-2013, 07:40
Acros is my favorite film for medium format and I develop all of it Pyrocat-HD. The stain may seem neutral in color but if it is still quite strong if measured with a UV denstitometer, assuming normal exposure and development. The outstanding advantage of Acros over FP4 is its great resistance to reciprocity failure. I have found in many cases that because of this feature effective exposures are often shorter with Acros in low lighting conditions than with traditional films like FP4 and HP5 where considerable adjustments have to be made to account for reciprocity. When developed in Pyrocat-HF Acros has extremely fine grain and outstanding acutance.

Sandy

Although I haven't printed the 120 negatives yet, I would agree with Sandy on this. The negatives look outstanding and appear to be easy to print.

It's interesting to note that WD2D+ did result in a mild stain on 4x5 Acros - unnoticeable at first until held side by side with an Xtol processed negative in strong light.

Thomas

LuisR
2-Jul-2013, 07:58
LuisR, I remember Simon Galley of Ilford saying on the APUG forum that FP4+ is not available in sheet film because of problems finding a suitable base for it. He didn't go into any detail beyond saying it wasn't either possible, practical or economical.

Peter, you must mean PanF because FP4+ in 4x5 shts is readily available in the NY area. That is what I have been using in large format. Assuming you meant PanF, I do not understand how that could be since PanF is just about 1 stop slower than FP4. I would be curious to know why they could not use the same base stock as FP4+. I have used PanF in medium format and it does not appear or feel to be a different base stock than FP4+ in medium format.

LuisR
2-Jul-2013, 08:01
Acros is my favorite film for medium format and I develop all of it Pyrocat-HD. The stain may seem neutral in color but if it is still quite strong if measured with a UV denstitometer, assuming normal exposure and development. The outstanding advantage of Acros over FP4 is its great resistance to reciprocity failure. I have found in many cases that because of this feature effective exposures are often shorter with Acros in low lighting conditions than with traditional films like FP4 and HP5 where considerable adjustments have to be made to account for reciprocity. When developed in Pyrocat-HF Acros has extremely fine grain and outstanding acutance.

Sandy

Sandy, just curious if you have used Acros100 in 4x5 and what your results have been. I have not mostly because of the cost, but based on what I have read of its reciprocity properties (no compensation up to 120 sec exposures, plus 1/2 stop beyond that to 1000 seconds) I may have to bite the bullet and spend the money. Right now on a cost per sheet basis its twice the cost of FP4+.

Kirk Gittings
2-Jul-2013, 08:14
FYI I have shot maybe a 1000 sheets of Acros with the last 300 or so in Pyrocat HD in Glycol. For many reasons (reciporcity being a big one), except for price and availability, it is my favorite film/dev combination.

Drew Wiley
2-Jul-2013, 08:49
I have found ACROS and FP4 to develop analogously in many developers, including the several pyro versions I've tested. They also seem to have similar speed in
daylight. But otherwise, the recip effect, spectral sensitivity, and grain are different.

sanking
2-Jul-2013, 10:50
Sandy, just curious if you have used Acros100 in 4x5 and what your results have been. I have not mostly because of the cost, but based on what I have read of its reciprocity properties (no compensation up to 120 sec exposures, plus 1/2 stop beyond that to 1000 seconds) I may have to bite the bullet and spend the money. Right now on a cost per sheet basis its twice the cost of FP4+.

I don't use the 4X5 format very much and have not tried Acros in that size. I did use some Acros in 5X7, cutting down 8X10 sheets, and it wass just as good in this size as in medium format. However, the film that I use most often in 5X7 is TMY.

Pricing and marketing is curious with regard to Acros. It has been my experience that at many stores Acros is less expensive than Ilford and Kodak films in roll size, but in sheet film it is more expensive and harder to find.

Sandy

Harley Goldman
2-Jul-2013, 15:07
I regularly use Acros and Delta 100 in 4x5, developing with rollo pyro. Acros is excellent and my preferred film, but Delta 100 is far cheaper. Due to cost considerations, I use Delta 100 in brighter situations, Acros in low light so I don't have any, or as much, exposure compensation time. I scan the negatives and am quite happy with the results from both films.

Peter Gomena
2-Jul-2013, 16:28
Yes, I meant PanF+ not FP4+. I was typing before my second cup of coffee kicked in. Sorry for the confusion!!

LuisR
2-Jul-2013, 17:30
I regularly use Acros and Delta 100 in 4x5, developing with rollo pyro. Acros is excellent and my preferred film, but Delta 100 is far cheaper. Due to cost considerations, I use Delta 100 in brighter situations, Acros in low light so I don't have any, or as much, exposure compensation time. I scan the negatives and am quite happy with the results from both films.

Harley, I am going to experiment with Delta 100 and Pyrocat HD. Your method is clever. I looked at their prices and Delta 100 is more expensive than FP4+ in 4x5, but less in 120. Its discouraging when manufacturers play games with their pricing such as this, or as Fuji does between their price for 4x5 vs. 120. Clearly the beancounters could not care less about photographers, which after all are the reason why they have their jobs.

David Luttmann
15-Jul-2013, 21:46
I've always prefered FP4 for portraits and Acros for landscapes...regardless of developer.