Expansion and contraction capabilities of HP5 and FP4

[wiggywag]

I use ABC pyro which should be great for expansion. How many zones can this developer expand and contract HP5 and FP4? Anybody on this forum done a real test? Also interested to hear results with other developers, but please specify which developer you use.

[Drew Wiley]

A tricky question because the shape of the curve can change under significantly different development conditions. It also depends how you print. I've worked with
a variety of pyro developers with both films. Basically, FP4 has a steeper toe that will give better shadow gradation deeper down - more of a straight line film down to a certain point. Yeah, there are all kinds of tricks to expand the exposure range of either of these films, but I wouldn't call either one as tolerant of serious expansion as old school Super-XX for example, or even TMY. In fact, I've frequently had to resort to supplementary unsharp masking to be able to recover highlight gradation in HP5 if I greatly expanded the midtone microtonality (which could be wonderful under such circumstances). But I'm referring to conventional silver papers, not something like carbon.

[wiggywag]

Hi Drew, I use Lodima/Azo!

[Heroique]

Also interested to hear results with other developers, but please specify which developer you use.

I really like compensation development with FP4+ and HC-110 (in trays).

Here, the darkest tree-boughs were zone 3. Sunny dimpled snow was above zone 9.

Used dilute HC-110 – or 1+123 direct from concentrate (not stock), and tray-developed for 19 minutes in 68° F, w/ a little bit of agitation every few minutes. All the snow has texture in straight prints from my Omega D2-v.

Tachi 4x5
Schneider 150/9 g-claron
Ilford FP4+ (in dilute HC-110)
Epson 4990/Epson Scan

[wiggywag]

I really like compensation development with FP4+ and HC-110 (in trays).

Here, the darkest tree-boughs were zone 3. Sunny dimpled snow was above zone 9.

Used dilute HC-110 – or 1+123 direct from concentrate (not stock), and tray-developed for 19 minutes in 68° F, w/ a little bit of agitation every few minutes. All the snow has texture in straight prints from my Omega D2-v.

Tachi 4x5
Schneider 150/9 g-claron
Ilford FP4+ (in dilute HC-110)
Epson 4990/Epson Scan

beautiful

[Drew Wiley]

Compensated development is a different strategy than a true long-scale film. With compensation you push your shadows up the curve, but bring the upper part of
the scale down - so you get your endpoints, but sacrifice tonal expansion in between. In this respect, both HP5 and FP4 are more "normal" range films. I don't know
if a true straight line film is still being made, like Bergger 200, Fomapan 200, or old Super-XX (which would tolerate more "plus" development than the other two).
The late Efke 25 would take a 12-stop range without resorting to compensation. I've found TMY to be about the best compromise available at the moment. I had so many defect issues with the Arista-branded version of Fomapan 200 that I gave up on it. But maybe it's improved, and some of the little scratches and coating zits might not show up on a contact print anyway. I was an odd duck in many respects - but talk about range!

[dave_whatever]

I really like compensation development with FP4+ and HC-110 (in trays).

Here, the darkest tree-boughs were zone 3. Sunny dimpled snow was above zone 9.

Wouldn't 6 stops be within the normal usable range of FP4+ with just "normal" development?

[Drew Wiley]

That sounds about right, Dave ... typically Zone II thru XIII with FP4, though the effect of a pyro stain or long-scale paper like Azo will stretch that some. I really
prefer even lower contrast scenes with HP5 so I can get it well off the toe and still overdevelop it for expanded midtones and optimum edge effect. But overall, TMY
is a lot more versatile relatively to higher-contrast lighting ranges. I still haven't bagged the kind of contrast gradation I could with Bergger 200, but am getting close, esp given the flexibility of current VC papers. The redwoods are a good test area - you can have very gentle "softbox" lighting when the fog is in, then after
the sun comes out, at least twelve stops of range - took one such 8x10 last weekend.