How to mount Bellows (Kodak 2D)?

[klw]

Hello all,

I'd like to ask how the bellows are mounted to the rear bellows frame on a Kodak 2D (8x10). I found some advice on how to install it to the front, but none about how it is installed to the rear.

I can not see glue residues on the particular part of the frame, but many little nails and some cardboard(?). I made a little sketch that shows how I think the bellows might attach to the frame. Is this the right position? Is it attached only by nails (no glue)?

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Can anyone please tell me how this is done?


TIA

Matthias

[Jim Graves]

I think screws, not nails were used. Here are a couple of photos from mine ... I included the 2d picture (blurry as it is) to show that the bellows material didn't wrap over the top of the inset frame.

I looked at two 8x10 2Ds ... one from Kodak and the other made by Folmer-Graflex for Kodak ... both were the same.

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[Jon Shiu]

I think the screws are used to attach the frame to the rear camera body. Mine has a bunch of tiny tacks holding the fabric to the inside of the frame.

Jon

[Jim C.]

Jon is correct, both of my K2D's are like that, small tacks/nails that hold the bellows in the frame,
the cardboard strip is a spacer to bring it flush to the inner opening of the frame.

[ic-racer]

Probably mounts similar to the Century: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?29267-Here-we-go-Century-8x10-Restoration&p=281851&viewfull=1#post281851

[Jim Graves]

Is any glue used or just the tacks?

[klw]

Thank you all for your answers :)

As Jon Shiu already said, the screws mount the bellows frame to the rear box (I know this, because took it apart ;) ). By looking on the images Jim Graves kindly provided, I think my idea on where the bellows might be attached to the frame seems to be correct. :)

I'm still uncertain about the cardboard. Jim C. said »the cardboard strip is a spacer to bring it flush to the inner opening of the frame«. I thought the rabbet might act a a light trap – but this could only work if it's not flush to the frame. Any thoughts about that?

Last but not least, like Jim Graves, I'd also like to know if any glue is used or just the tacks ;)


TIA

Matthias

[redshift]

I had a similar setup on an old Ansco I just re-bellowed. I used "rubber cement" (actual name of the product). There wasn't much evidence of glue left on what was remaining of the bellows but there was bellows material stuck in the corners of the frame. I assumed the glue had completely powdered away. I put the glue on the bellows and the frame, let it dry a little, pressed the bellows into the rabbet and then clamped little strip of wood into the rabbet on top of the bellows material until the glue set up. The wood strip were only temporary. kevin

There were no tacks on my Ansco so we may have completely different animals.

[Jim C.]

Looking at my bellows again the front is glued, looks like hide glue because of the alligatoring of the squeeze out
the rear has no evidence that they were glued, in any case if you want to glue the rear I see no reason not to.
96805

[klw]

Looking at my bellows again the front is glued, looks like hide glue because of the alligatoring of the squeeze out
the rear has no evidence that they were glued, in any case if you want to glue the rear I see no reason not to.
96805

Thank you :) I first have to clean (and reglue) the rear frame, when this is done I'll try to mount the bellows this way.

Since there is not much information about this, I'll also will try to document the procedure and post it here.

--Matthias

[nonuniform]

I have a metal 2D, the rear bellows frame is wood, and my bellows was stapled and glued to the frame. Lots and lots of staples. Basic furniture technique.

[VPooler]

Contact glue is really good for gluing bellows to wood. I did so with my DIY camera and worked like a charm. Just don't apply too heavily :)

[klw]

Well, I wouldn't mind if I could avoid using glue. Since the original seems to work without glue, I hope it will get away with the tacks.

I also thought about using a double sided tape to ensure the bellows stays flat between the tacks, sounds easier than glue at least ;)

--Matthias

[Bazz8]

I have purchased a front and back from Jon the bellows frame was not included and intend
to make one, can someone please measure the section size for me and the rebate depth
and width. I am waiting for a bellows from China ordered before I saw the front and back,
I have the rest of the 2d coming base Jon again, back from another LF member
film holders, and a french polisher at work who will guide me in the clean up
of the timber, will take some pictures and the mix etc.;)

[klw]

I have purchased a front and back from Jon the bellows frame was not included and intend
to make one, can someone please measure the section size for me and the rebate depth
and width. I am waiting for a bellows from China ordered before I saw the front and back,
I have the rest of the 2d coming base Jon again, back from another LF member
film holders, and a french polisher at work who will guide me in the clean up
of the timber, will take some pictures and the mix etc.;)

The overall dimension of my rear frame is 11.1" x 11.1", but you can measure that, since the frame has to fit in your rear box. I'm not used to inches and hope I got it right...
98827

The front frame is 7 1/4 x 7 1/4, the sides are 3/4" and it is 9/32 thick.

Matthias

[Bazz8]

The overall dimension of my rear frame is 11.1" x 11.1", but you can measure that, since the frame has to fit in your rear box. I'm not used to inches and hope I got it right...
98827

The front frame is 7 1/4 x 7 1/4, the sides are 3/4" and it is 9/32 thick.

Matthias

Thank you Mathias I received my bellows and assumed that they were 280mm square
Rudy sent me a message that the bellows are 250 x280 and that the 280mm fits to the outside of the frame
and the 255 side fits on the inside rebate do you have a clear picture of your bellows and how they attatch
regards
Barry Treleaven
Bazz8

[klw]

Thank you Mathias I received my bellows and assumed that they were 280mm square
Rudy sent me a message that the bellows are 250 x280 and that the 280mm fits to the outside of the frame
and the 255 side fits on the inside rebate do you have a clear picture of your bellows and how they attatch


Sorry, but my bellows isn't attached yet. Since the frame fits exactly into the rear "box" the bellows can not be attached on the outside. But don't worry, my bellows isn't square either and I just checked an think it will fit nicely into the rebate on all 4 sides :)

If you fold up the end of the bellows it will form a ...well lets call it something that looks like a fence... that will fit into the rebate.

Matthias

[Bazz8]

Sorry, but my bellows isn't attached yet. Since the frame fits exactly into the rear "box" the bellows can not be attached on the outside. But don't worry, my bellows isn't square either and I just checked an think it will fit nicely into the rebate on all 4 sides :)

If you fold up the end of the bellows it will form a ...well lets call it something that looks like a fence... that will fit into the rebate.

Matthias

Thank you for your reply I have cut some matbourd to size to test the bellows fit and it seems to work
so tomorrow will tell
regards
Barry Treleaven
Bazz8

[klw]

I'm very curious to hear about your experiences ;)

Matthias

[Bazz8]

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I'm very curious to hear about your experiences ;)

Matthias

Well had a big day yesterday, decided to cut the back bellows frame from 10mm MDF 281x281mm and then set my radial arm saw to plunge
cut across 13mm also cut the front panel 185mm square and plunge cut 19mm across all 4 sides, quick clean up with a chisel and the frames look good.
Mounting the Bellows I did the rear first the bellows had a 10mm final fold which stuck up at right angles away from the rear of the bellows,
I used a hand leather hole punch and cut some holes every 30mm or so and 20mm from each corner,placed the bellows inside the frame and marked
where the holes were with a pencil, pre-drilled each hole position so the MDF would not split,I did this all 4 sides, 1hr later the bellows where fitting the rear frame.
The Front was easier I could fit the 185mm square frame level with the last fold ( bellows outside the frame and 20mm sitting up higher than the frame,
I then folded the bellows material over the frame held the material with small clamps and did the same as the rear cut 4 holes for the screws each side and
then pre-drilled the MDF ready for the brass piano hinge screws.
The front frame of the 2D looked like it had been shot with a machine gun the number of previous holes that fitted the bellows , so I cut a piece of paper
185 square with a 20mm flap to fold over the top of the frame and shaded with a pencil the entire sides 20-30 wide as you shade the paper the holes appear,
I used a toothpick to place a hole through the paper into the excising holes this took a while, layed the paper over the MDF frame and marked and
pre-drilled each hole 1/8 " or 3mm then preceded to cut the protruding bellows material away from the inside of the frame surprisingly it was about
2/3mm on one side only.
I rebated with a router the washer and frame rivet on each side of the rear standard making sure the rebate shape circular does not go right through
to the rear of the frame! My screws protruded slightly through the 13mm width of the frame which I filed off to a smooth finish.
I fitted the bellows from the rear and racked the front standard about 200mm away from the read and screwed the front frame through the pilot hole
into the front standard frame.
looked fantastic until I saw that the rear bellows at the side were obstruction the 254x254 opening width by 8mm or so each side:confused:
a quick call to a mate and I discovered that I would have to cut the corner down to the fold unscrew the internal screws and gently tug the bellows
over to the outer face of the bellows frame:o same thing mark holes pre-drill and screw the bellows down they protrude about 4mm inside the bellows frame
now and sit nicely:)
I then made a couple of lensboards used some floating floor and machined it down to 7mm and mounted a Wollensack 305f f6.3 Rapter on the front
still waiting for the back to arrive Monday perhaps.
I intend to use black binding tape to stick to the back of the frame and over the brass screws , on the front I will use 10mmx2mm glazers tape and make a lightproof rectangle
which the screws will go through to ensure light tightness.
I phone pics hand held but you get the idea.
regards
Bazz8