Handheld 5X7 thoughts

[Randy]

I just read about the Travelwide 4X5 project (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/wanderlust/travelwide-45-camera) on Kickstarter. I like the idea but am in no position financially to add new gear (especially the necessary W/A lens) to my collection, so I thought about just using what I already have, which is 5X7 gear.
I have a 115mm Caltar IIN and would like to build (just for fun) a camera around it that is similar to the Travelwide camera. If I could eventually get my hands on a 4X5 travelwide camera I could just modify it for 5X7, but I would kind of like to build my own camera. I will be able to design and build the camera pretty easily out of thin plywood, but the helical focus/lens mount is where I will get stuck.

Any thoughts or ideas on acquiring or making a helical zone focusing mechanism for a large format camera? Is there another focusing method?

[John Kasaian]

IIRC, Peter Gowland used the helical gear salvaged from a Graflex model on some of his cameras, I'm not sure of the model Graflex however. I know there was a man who worked for Peter assembling cameras---his name might be on the Peter Gowland website---he'd be the one to ask. If Peter's shop is still in business, they might even have the helical gear to sell you.
Good luck!

[Bob Salomon]

Rodenstock makes calibrated focusing mounts for all of their lenses in a 0 size shutter (1 for each lens so there are a lot of them). Schneider also makes them for their 0 shutter lenses.

You can get one by simply ordering it.

[Richard Wasserman]

What if you made it fixed-focus? Does it really need the helical? If you set it to focus at a predetermined, or maybe hyperfocal distance for more depth of focus, you would at least know where you need to stand to make the photo. I just did this with a 6x18 camera and it works great. Although I am working from a tripod and small apertures are not an issue as they may be for you if you are hand-holding.

[Randy]

Richard, I would like the option of not having to tripod mount, and not have to use small apertures exclusively. If I could have a focus scale on the helical so I could estimate the distance and then just set the helical, that would enable me to shoot with wider apertures and faster shutter speeds, which I would need for handheld shooting.

[Jim Noel]

Fixed focus is the answer. Set it at the hyperfocal distance for f16 and you are in business.
I once built a primitive focusing mount utilizing a threaded sewer cap.

[Joe Smigiel]

Search ebay for a helicoid Bronica focusing attachment for an S2 camera.

[John O'Connell]

Footman sold a helical for ~$250, Grimes did one for a bit more, and some folks have adapted larger 35mm or MF lens barrels. Ironically, the Travelwide is the cheapest source for a helical that I know of right now, and I was thinking of buying one to sacrifice it for the helical.

[Otto Seaman]

Or calculate how many sheets of 5x7 you're going to ruin and buy a decent used DSLR with the savings instead. At least then you'll have some photos in focus without motion blur.

[Morten]

Would this do as helicoil?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Focusing-Helicoid-Lens-Board-For-Wista-Linhof-Shen-Hao-DIY-Large-Format-Camera-/181113477993?pt=US_Lens_Boards&hash=item2a2b345b69

[Vaughn]

Another possibility is the sliding box type of focusing. The front 'standard' can be moved in or out of the main camera body to focus.

[John Kasaian]

I handhold a 5x7 Speeder and have a cheat sheet for my lens---a 203mm Kodak Ektar--- indicating the nearest something will be in focus at a given f-stop. I rely on this and use the sports finder. Focusing with the ground glass while hand held is a problem I just don't want to deal with.

[Randy]

Would this do as helicoil?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Focusing-Helicoid-Lens-Board-For-Wista-Linhof-Shen-Hao-DIY-Large-Format-Camera-/181113477993?pt=US_Lens_Boards&hash=item2a2b345b69Very possibly - thanks.

[Randy]

Or calculate how many sheets of 5x7 you're going to ruin and buy a decent used DSLR with the savings instead. At least then you'll have some photos in focus without motion blur.:-) I already have a few decent DSLR's, and since I will be mostly shooting Xray film cut to 5X7, I can afford to screw up a couple sheets.

[Randy]

Another possibility is the sliding box type of focusing. The front 'standard' can be moved in or out of the main camera body to focus.Yes, if I just can't work a helical into it, that will probably be the route I go.

[coisasdavida]

Mamiya Press and Polaroid 600SE have nice helical for #0 shutters! And if your shutter doesn't fit you can just move your cells into its Seiko.

[John Kasaian]

Peter Gowland offered a focusing tube and threaded plate for his aerial cameras. There may be a few left. Here's a link to his site---I don't know if Alice is still taking orders or not.
http://www.petergowland.com/camera/repairs/

[DrTang]

what would you be shooting with your camera?

probably not landscapes as there would be no reason to have it be hand held...so I'm thining street / portrait - something like that

If so..just make it focus to one distance..8'? 10' ? and either attach a focus deal hacked off a polaroid Big Shot..or attach a string or chain of that distance

[Randy]

what would you be shooting with your camera?

probably not landscapes as there would be no reason to have it be hand held...so I'm thining street / portrait - something like that

If so..just make it focus to one distance..8'? 10' ? and either attach a focus deal hacked off a polaroid Big Shot..or attach a string or chain of that distanceI would like it to be just a fun/creative way to shoot large format fairly quickly - street scenes, portraits, perhaps as close as a meter. I would like to be able to shoot all those things one might shoot with a 35mm camera and a 28mm lens mounted.
The movement of the lens, from infinity to 1 meter is only about 20mm, so it seems to me that a helical focus mechanizm would be ideal. Perhaps an alternative to the "sliding box" method that Vaughn mentioned above would be two sections of PVC, one sliding inside the other...? I can get a helical focus mechanism on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281089085411?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649) for about $109 shipped. It looks like it is about the right size but I don't know if the travel is enough (20mm), and not being familiar with them, I can't tell if, when turning the focus ring, the lens will rotate as it travels.

[Andy Eads]

I recall that Clyde Butcher and some friends made hand held 5x7 cameras set for landscapes using hyperfocal distance. They looked like duct tape and scrap wood but the images were worthy of the format. Might be worth a search.

[Randy]

I recall that Clyde Butcher and some friends made hand held 5x7 cameras set for landscapes using hyperfocal distance. They looked like duct tape and scrap wood but the images were worthy of the format. Might be worth a search.For the type of picture taking I want to be able to do, I don't think using hyper-focal will work. I would like to have the option of shooting rather close (1 meter) at wide apertures, like f/6.8, f/8. If I was just going to shoot landscapes, it would all be very easy :(

[DrTang]

For the type of picture taking I want to be able to do, I don't think using hyper-focal will work. I would like to have the option of shooting rather close (1 meter) at wide apertures, like f/6.8, f/8. If I was just going to shoot landscapes, it would all be very easy :(


I'd go find a DoF chart for the lens at those distances..chances are it will be wafer thin

also..think about carting all those film holders around

another thing is camera shake - even a teeny bit of shake will be magnified just by the shear size of the film being used

don't get me wrong..I LOVE the whole handheld concept..having tried to build an 8x10 and a 5x7 at one point..the idea of walking around with basically a giant Brownie is pretty sweet...but it got just too much for me deal with....

my concept was a 5x7 or 8x10 walking around camera for street portraits - to get around camera shake I was experimenting with flash and slightly wide angle lenses - the whole set up just got too heavy to be practical for me...
I still am kicking around the idea..but somehow cobbled to a cart or wheeled device(modified jogging stroller???) so I won't have to carry the batteries and flash heads and holders on person

[Randy]

I'd go find a DoF chart for the lens at those distances..chances are it will be wafer thinI am sure at 1 meter it will be thin. Would have to close down some.


also..think about carting all those film holders aroundWell, I have often carried a camera bag with a few lenses and a few bodies, when shooting 35mm or medium format. I am thinking more like a bag with 6-8 film holders max, and a meter - that's about it.


another thing is camera shake - even a teeny bit of shake will be magnified just by the shear size of the film being usedYes, I would be limited to bright scenes. I could carry a mono-pod to help with slower shutter speeds...I guess.
My shutter goes to 1/400th. I would most likely (unless I win the lottery sometime soon) be shooting cut down X-ray film that I rate at ISO 200, so I should be able to keep my shutter speed around 1/250 - 1/400 for most of my shooting...I hope.

[photobymike]

Fotoman makes a 8x10 hand held...The real problem with larger hand held formats for me is the larger lenses needed. I suppose you could use a 65 or 75 if clipping the corners was ok.. I now have a Fotoman 4x5 with a 75mm. I found that i need to use 400 film to get the aperture needed for some depth of field. I am not that good at guessing distance, and the depth of field DOF takes care of my bad guess work..... Longer lenses would require a little more precision with the focus and the scale. Well for the you kiddies that have a strong back Fotoman made or still makes an 8x10 carry.... if bigger is better....

Randy ..i remember that quote ..it is a good one.... that show was sooo depressing.... murder and mayhem

[rfesk]

I have a nice DIY 5X7 that uses the ebay advertised helical. It won't get to 1 meter but could be made to with a little effort. My 5X7 uses the helical mounted on the lensboard so a spacer could be used between the lensboard and body to get the closer distances in focus if desired. My lens is a 135 Ektar wide field (equivalent to a 28mm lens on a 35mm camera.)

But trying to shoot hand held at f/6.3 at 1 meter would be very difficult because of the shallow depth of field. How about .09 meters?

[Oren Grad]

The movement of the lens, from infinity to 1 meter is only about 20mm, so it seems to me that a helical focus mechanizm would be ideal. Perhaps an alternative to the "sliding box" method that Vaughn mentioned above would be two sections of PVC, one sliding inside the other...? I can get a helical focus mechanism on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/281089085411?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649) for about $109 shipped. It looks like it is about the right size but I don't know if the travel is enough (20mm), and not being familiar with them, I can't tell if, when turning the focus ring, the lens will rotate as it travels.

Randy - FWIW, the travel of the short-throw Fotoman helical is 8mm and the long-throw one is 18mm. From the looks of it I suspect that the travel of the helical on eBay is more like the short-throw Fotoman, but who knows - why not try asking the seller?

[Randy]

Randy - FWIW, the travel of the short-throw Fotoman helical is 8mm and the long-throw one is 18mm. From the looks of it I suspect that the travel of the helical on eBay is more like the short-throw Fotoman, but who knows - why not try asking the seller?Oren, I just heard back from the seller - 9mm travel, which is about 1/2 of what I would like to have. I have not seen the long-throw version you mention. If I could get 18mm I would be happy. I wonder what the throw is on the helical on the new Travelwide camera?

[Oren Grad]

Oren, I just heard back from the seller - 9mm travel, which is about 1/2 of what I would like to have. I have not seen the long-throw version you mention. If I could get 18mm I would be happy.

Look under "accessories" (well, strictly speaking they say "accesories") on the Fotoman.cc website. But I think their price is going to be more like $200-300, which probably isn't what you have in mind. I think it might be worth reconsidering this particular requirement, though. At very close focus and wider apertures it's going to be extremely difficult to get the focus right hand-held. OTOH, if you're willing to put the camera on a tripod you can stop way down and get effective coverage closer than the minimum close focus setting.

[Roger Hesketh]

Burke and James made a fixed focus 5x7 camera utilizing a 108mm Wollensak EWA f12.5 lens. You could find one of those cameras or build a similar camera utilsing that lens.Which is just a box with a 5x7 back of it.

[cgrab]

If you want to focus from infinity to 1 meter, it will be difficult to find a helical focus mount, except for extreme wide-angles. There is a formula to calculate the necessary extension from infinity (zero position) to 1 meter (extension), which goes like this:

square of focal length divided by onethousand is the extension in millimeters necessary to go from infinity to 1 meter.

Thus for 75mm: 75²/1000=5,625; but for 300mm: 300²/1000=90. A 300 mm portrait lens would require a helical with a driving out 90mm to focus both to infinity and 1 meter, even a 210mm would require 44,1 mm. Maybeyou can find something suitable at a hardware store (plastic drain pipe connectors?)

Good luck and please show what you came up with
Christoph

[Randy]

Christoph, for my 115mm mounted on my 5X7 camera with bellows I think I measured about 18mm travel needed from infinity to 1 meter, but I may be mis remembering :( I will try your formula but being bad a math you may have to help me.
I have a helical coming that I got on eBay. It has 28mm of travel, more than I need. Will keep y'all posted as I screw this project up.

[cgrab]

According to my formula, which is unfortunately not mine, but something which I have picked up somewhere (and it might even be this forum), extension for a 115mm lens would be 13,225 mm. With 28 mm of travel, it should be good for a 165mm lens. I must avow that I have not corroborated the formula by taking measurements as I should have, but I estimate my limited experiences to be close enough. I would be grateful if some precision-minded person would take a caliper to his camera and check this out.

[Randy]

I used your calculations and I believe you are correct. That's the good news. Now for the bad - my helical focuser just arrived from Hong Kong and I did not pay close enough attention to the measurements provided by the seller in the ebay listing...the rear cell of my 115mm will not fit up inside the back of the focuser. $160 shot. Back to the drawring board.

[Carsten Wolff]

I used your calculations and I believe you are correct. That's the good news. Now for the bad - my helical focuser just arrived from Hong Kong and I did not pay close enough attention to the measurements provided by the seller in the ebay listing...the rear cell of my 115mm will not fit up inside the back of the focuser. $160 shot. Back to the drawing board.

- If you shortened the helicoid a bit, would you be able to fit the rear cell? Any local fitter would be able to put that on a lathe for you and shorten it, for a carton of beer, or reasonable money, I bet, but it may of course be just too wide, or the helicoid not suitable to be shortened on a lathe (or milling machine).

(As an aside, I've made two DIY cameras recently: A 6x9cm (w. 58mm Omegaron): I used the helicoid from a focussing teleconverter I had bought for $2(!). The other is actually a 5x7" underwater camera, which I use without a helicoid (75mm w/a, hyperfocal distance (87cm-infinity) at f22, interchangeable with e.g. a 135mm Macro 1:3 @ f22). (The 75mm can make good use of the camera's Scheimpflug provision, but of course we're not talking handheld in that context)

[Drew Bedo]

Weren't the HOBO cameras a DIY type to start with?

[ic-racer]

:-) I already have a few decent DSLR's, and since I will be mostly shooting Xray film cut to 5X7, I can afford to screw up a couple sheets.

You know the speed of your film, you know the speed of your lens, you know how slow of a shutter speed you can use, you know how many inches of DOF you will have at your target print size and acceptable CoC size, right? Can you think of any reason why 5x7 hand helds are not already available :)
If you don't want to do all the calculations, just lift your 5x7 camera off its tripod before each shot and see how they come out. I know in my hands they would be blurry with X-ray film.

[Ramiro Elena]

Hey Randy, how's your project coming along?

I've been wanting to build a plank 5x7. Mine would be fixed focus though (at the moment). I am planning on using a 190mm Velostigmat fixed focused at 19m. I need to figure out how thick the body will need to be yet.