Building a 4x5 camera from scratch [Archive] - Large Format Photography Forum

Tim Meisburger

29-May-2013, 05:22

There are not many decent plans available. I've been thinking lately we should do a Wiki design of a nice field camera, which would include a parts list from McMaster Carr or similar for the metal parts. If I had a good design and could order the tracks and wheels, I would be up for building a nice 8x10.

Jim Jones

29-May-2013, 06:43

Go to http://home.online.no/~gjon/camerabuilders.htm and follow the links for much information.

Jim Fitzgerald

29-May-2013, 07:05

Find a design you like and copy it.... but make it your own.

IanG

29-May-2013, 08:40

I'm about to embark on making a couple of cameras, thanks to Miguel in Paris - I bought a box of Graflex parts from him. I'm using the focus rails/track from a Graflex with a Super Graphic front standard to build a camera that will have a 5x4 and also a 6x17 back. I need it to be easy to use hand held, longest lens I'll use is a 210mm, widest a 65mm (5x4) or 75mm (6x17).

Go to http://home.online.no/~gjon/camerabuilders.htm and follow the links for much information.

Thanks Jim, Jon Grepstad has added some new links and there's some much better cameras than last time I looked.

Ian

DonJ

29-May-2013, 10:45

Have you gone through this thread:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?45775-Show-us-your-home-made-camera&highlight=pinhole

antonroland

29-May-2013, 12:38

Thanks for the responses folks.

Great info to work through...will make some decisions.

antonroland

30-May-2013, 01:03

Find a design you like and copy it.... but make it your own.

Jim, I was thinking of doing exactly that with the old Joshua Billcliff I just finished restoring. It is simple, elegant and reasonably easy to copy...but then I thought, ahh hell, why not do 8x10...

Problem is, there are very few hard-core film shooters in S.A. and the closest will probably be in Cape Town nearly 500 miles away...

Thank goodness for the web and sites like this forum!

Tim Meisburger

30-May-2013, 01:54

Are you in Bloemfontein?

antonroland

30-May-2013, 02:28

Are you in Bloemfontein?

No, Port Elizabeth.

Do you know of any serious film shooters in Bloem?

Tim Meisburger

30-May-2013, 03:41

No. I lived in Lesotho for two years in the late 80s, and used to visit Bloemfontein occasionally. I was in PE once, but don't recall much except some really excellent mussels! In those days I shot an OM1 and an XA, so I don't know any LF shooters there. I hope to get back there sometime with my 4x5, as the sunsets in Lesotho were fantastic.

antonroland

30-May-2013, 07:09

Well, I am headed for Lesotho in a week or three with the old camera to go and complete a 110 year circle. We will make a day trip into Lesotho and I will be taking ALL the toys...

Hoping to return with some nice images!

Sudekeye

31-May-2013, 17:35

Take a look at Rayment Kirby's site. He has some excellent ideas for building wooden view cameras. He has a good number of diagrams and such. Beautiful wood work. Lots of great info and design ideas.

Tim Meisburger

31-May-2013, 19:30

I have looked at Kirby's site, and the camera he has plans for is nice, but not exactly a classic folding field. What is needed is selection of a fully functional design (like a Deardorf?), then good drawing (I think nowadays that can be done on computer), then a real parts list drawn from an actual supplier, so I could send them the order list for the rack and pinion gears, knobs, springs, etc. Then folks like me could buy the parts, track down wood, and putter around in the shop for years...

Tim Meisburger

31-May-2013, 19:33

I wish I had measured my Ikeda Anba before I sold it, as that was a classic, simple and really lightweight design. Perhaps someone who has a 5x7 or 8x10 would be willing to measure theirs?

antonroland

1-Jun-2013, 02:22

I think for now my plan would be to make an upscaled replica of the Billcliff / J.T. Chapman I just restored and upscale it to 8x10.

I would then do absolutely everything as close as possible to the sample quarter plate I converted to 4x5.

The only difference would be lenses...I would probably hunt for two nice modern lenses...approximately standard or slightly longer and a really nice but not silly wide angle perspective...

Well, that is the plan...many other things to take care of first...

IanG

1-Jun-2013, 04:17

I have some early British field cameras (quarter plate, half plate & whole plate) and I'm constantly surprised by the simple, light weight but rugged construction. If I was building a 10x8 I'd copy the best features from them. I was lucky to find some camera parts at a flea market just before Christmas and have two focus beds and a back, and most of the brass fittings, no plans as yet to use them.

Part of my dilemna is I only paid £20 for my last half plate camera, it would cost me so myuch more to make one, OK it needs bellows but that's easy enough.

Ian

antonroland

1-Jun-2013, 12:53

Hello Ian and all you other wonderful folks...

I tinkered with the old girl tonight with the aim of studying her to copy and every time I am more amazed at the simplicity of the design.

At first I thought I would buy an 8x10 film holder and build the camera around that but I am more and more convinced I should simply scale her up and make everything myself...except for the lens, of course...

I do have some woodworking knowledge and this will surely be both a very relaxing a very rewarding way to pass some time.

It's just that you guys live in camera heaven compared to this village I live in...picking up such bargains...having camera fairs...

antonroland

1-Jun-2013, 12:58

nede

1-Jun-2013, 14:08

I imagine my first hurdle would be that of aligning the planes of ground glass with that of the film...any ideas?

I know there is a wealth of information in those links but I sadly do not have the time to read all of it so if anyone could point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it!

Cheers all!

It's the only big deal of the process. I made one Home made camera last month, If you start from the original film holder there is no problem!
Keep It Simple Stupid with you design, you'll spare time/effort/weight
The 2 importants pieces of gear are film holders+ lense

Feel free to have a look at one of my attempt here: http://www.chassimages.com/forum/index.php/topic,181047.0.html

antonroland

1-Jun-2013, 14:31

Thanks very much, that looks good...pity my french is next to non-existent but I get the idea.

Do you use a ground glass in this example?

IanG

1-Jun-2013, 14:42

I imagine my first hurdle would be that of aligning the planes of ground glass with that of the film...any ideas?

I know there is a wealth of information in those links but I sadly do not have the time to read all of it so if anyone could point me in the right direction I would really appreciate it!

Cheers all!

Making a back with a focus screen that's in register with the film holder isn't difficult. I've made adapters to use Graflex RH10 6x7 rollfilm back for a quarter plate camera and an adapter to use 5x4 DDS with a half plate.

The hadest part is the metal fittings.

Ian

nede

1-Jun-2013, 14:46

I thinks pics speak more easily than words.
Yes I use plexiglass as a GG, I put some removable tape on it (not transparent but "white translucid" http://www.eckersleys.com.au/products/3m-scotch-811-removable-tape-6054 )
I glued some steel spacers on it, that the most critical parts, they must be 4,8mm thin on a 4x5 project to fit the same space between GG/lens and filmholder/lens
96230

antonroland

1-Jun-2013, 15:09

OK, just to be sure...does the frosted (inside?) surface of the groundglass have to sit on the film plane? I would think it had to...IF I have THAT right it all falls into place nicely from there...

nede

1-Jun-2013, 15:24

yes you want the frosted side to be at the exact same place of the film. (there the error could be thickness of the tape versus film's one)
a view camera is "WYSIWYG"
Excuse my english, hope you can understand me :)

Jim Jones

1-Jun-2013, 21:25

I imagine my first hurdle would be that of aligning the planes of ground glass with that of the film...any ideas? . . .

The depth from a standard 4x5 film holder's face to the back of the film (the "T" distance) is 0.197 +/- 0.007 inches. Allowing for the thickness of the film and some play in the slot in which the film rides, the distance from the holder's face to the film's emulsion is about 0.188 +/- 0.007 inches. The frosted surface of the ground glass should be that distance from the surface against which the film holder's face rests. If you have an appropriate precision measuring device, it is easy to make a ground glass frame that positions the ground glass. If you don't have something like a vernier depth caliper or micrometer depth gauge, you can improvise one from a flat board with a bolt threaded through it just far enough to contact a sheet of film in a film holder, and then set the ground glass to the same depth in its frame. A coil spring between the bolt head and the board should insure that any play between bolt and board is eliminated. The frosted surface of the ground glass should face the lens.

HT Finley

1-Jun-2013, 22:20

My train of thought is amazement that Guillows still manufactures their balsa-and-tissue airplane kits. Knowing that, then certainly somebody manufactures a view-camera kit of good quality. I've built Guillow's planes--they're damn fine quality kits. Certainly somebody here knows of a view camera kit of similar quality.

Tim Meisburger

1-Jun-2013, 22:58

Nope. I think the only one left is the Bulldog.

Tim Meisburger

1-Jun-2013, 23:09

Actually, seems the Bulldog is no longer available as well.

Lachlan 717

2-Jun-2013, 00:31

Actually, seems the Bulldog is no longer available as well.

I doubt it'll be missed...

IanG

2-Jun-2013, 01:45

Actually, seems the Bulldog is no longer available as well.

Well this company (http://www.pinholesolutions.co.uk/camera_kits.html) is still advertising them in the UK online and in a current magazine.

Ian

Light Guru

2-Jun-2013, 07:21

Well this company (http://www.pinholesolutions.co.uk/camera_kits.html) is still advertising them in the UK online and in a current magazine.

Ian

Yea you can still get the bulldog kit from them but its a crappy kit. It's made entirely out of MDF board. I build one and the first time I pulled the Ground glass frame back to invert a film holder the MDF broke. I had to make a a new ground glass frame out of solid wood just so I could use the camera.

antonroland

4-Jun-2013, 01:01

Hello again folks

OK, call me fickle if you like but the plan is now solidly on track...sourcing wood, brass screws etc...

I am upsizing the old quarter plate to 8x10 and I am starting to make drawings and so on.

I am basically thinking of doubling all dimensions or upping by 50% for the camera to be sturdy and solid. The weakest part of the existing quarter plate in my opinion is the box as the bed is quite solid.

As everything mounts on the "box body" I was thinking of doubling the wall thickness from 7mm to 14mm and increasing all widths by 50% so the 8x10 body is strong enough structurally.

The back is a completely removable frame with ground glass door and the body is made in such a way that the back can attach in both landscape or portrait on a perfectly square body.

Film planes and ground glass planes should therefore not be rocket science, purely a matter of careful measuring and building...

Any thoughts and comments highly appreciated.

Are there any places or people who can assist with making a custom bellows to specific dimensions?

IanG

4-Jun-2013, 02:56

Anton, I would think 14mm is over kill for the box part, the thickest wood I'm using is 9mm. You'll gain a lot of strength from the inner piec that the bellows will glue to.

Bellows are easy to make yourself there's plenty of articles online.

Ian

Halford

6-Jun-2013, 02:28

Anton this is a really interesting-sounding project! I'd be curious to see pics of how it's going.

I've been having vague thoughts about building an 8x10 at some stage -- since I live just down the road (relatively speaking) in Cape Town it might be interesting to collaborate at some stage -- don't think I'll be ready to tackle something like this for a few months yet, but very interested to see how you get on.

Cheers,
Hal

Jim Jones

6-Jun-2013, 07:03

[QUOTE=antonroland;1033737] . . . I am basically thinking of doubling all dimensions or upping by 50% for the camera to be sturdy and solid. The weakest part of the existing quarter plate in my opinion is the box as the bed is quite solid.

As everything mounts on the "box body" I was thinking of doubling the wall thickness from 7mm to 14mm and increasing all widths by 50% so the 8x10 body is strong enough structurally. . . .QUOTE]

You might gather glass, hardware, and wood pieces to equal about the weight of your projected cameras to get a feel for the weight of the finished camera. Then add the weight of a tripod, film holders, and other accessories. A 15 or 20kg camera kit feels awfully heavy after a day's shooting. Successful LF wooden cameras gained strength more through good design and careful construction than through skimping on wood.

IanG

6-Jun-2013, 09:02

Successful LF wooden cameras gained strength more through good design and careful construction than through skimping on wood.

Did you mean skimping ? Extra thickness would be just the opposite.

Your point about carefull design helps give improved strength to a lighter weight camera is the key to why many of the modern wooden cameras evolved from early British field ameras.

Ian

antonroland

6-Jun-2013, 12:27

Gents, my observations about upping thicknesses etc was purely about ensuring that the camera I plan to build has the necessary strength for it's size.

I definitely do not plan to take an 8x10 camera on a three day hike and, further to that, I also thought that my Billcliff Chapman quarterplate's weak part was the fairly lightweight construction of the "body box"

The back is well made and does not carry any stress as nothing attaches to it. The bed is solidly made but pivots on metal parts attached to the "body box" and so I simply thought it a good idea to beef up the box slightly more in scaling it up to 8x10.

As I do not have any LF shooter within hundreds of miles from me I have to rely on pictures and whatever info I can get from this site.

The guy in Cape Town who scans my negs has a few 8x10 cameras and I will probably buy one from him but, as for building my own version, it is very much a journey of discovery with loads of potential for trial and error.

I would simply like to eliminate as many potential errors as I possibly can.

Cheers everyone

Steve Smith

6-Jun-2013, 13:19

Anton, I would think 14mm is over kill for the box part, the thickest wood I'm using is 9mm. You'll gain a lot of strength from the inner piec that the bellows will glue to.

I agree. 9mm is (for me) the ideal thickness for wood. As I don't have the means to thickness wood myself, I by it in from an ebay seller in pieces 450mm x 100mm which have already been thicknessed to 9mm.

This is ideal for me as I cut my parts on a CNC router.

Bellows are easy to make yourself there's plenty of articles online.

Indeed. Here's mine: http://www.freewebs.com/stevesmithphoto/bellows.html

Steve.