Pyrocat HD some question about stand and double bath

[Pasukaru]

Hi,

Today I'm going to order for the first time the Pyrocat HD, and I want just be sure to use it in a proper way.

I 'll buy the liquid A-B version to develop 6x6 medium format negative in TANK.
Film Tmax 400 and Hp5

Do you suggest to me the double-bath or the stand development? To do the stand developer is it better use low speed film like Tmax100 and fp5 than the Tmax 400 and Hp5? I read by Sandy King that high speed film may give lots of problems with stand development...

Anyway, please tell me if the both processes is right in this way;

STAND FOR 6x6 film in tank :

work temperature 21°C ( 70°F)

5 minutes pre-soak (how do the agitations?)

pour in the tank the solution 2:2:400-500 2 parts A + 2 parts B + 400-500 parts of water

agitate vigorously for 60 second then leave it for 45-60 minutes with just some 5 seconds agitation in the middle.

stop just in water, agitate the tank for 30 seconds

fix bath in TF4 for 6 minutes (how do the agitations?)

wash in water for 30 minutes



DOUBLE-BATH in tank : (it should give more acutance and sharpness than the one bath develop with minimal agitation?)

work temperature 23°C (75°F)

1+10 dilution of both parts A and B

pre-soak 5 minutes

7 minutes (15 % time more than the usually 6m because in tank) in part A. 2 inversions at the start then 2 at 1/4 , 1/2 , 3/4 points of the develop

5 minutes 45 seconds ( 15% time more than the usually 5m because in tank) 1 vigorous agitation for the first minute the 2 or 3 inversions at 1/4 , 1/2 , 3/4 points of the develop

pour water and leave it for 5 minutes

fix bath in TF4 for 6 minutes

wash in water for 30 minutes



Is it all right? Any suggestions?


Thanks.

[Peter Gomena]

Links to everything you need to know: http://www.pyrocat-hd.com/

[Pasukaru]

Thank you Peter about the link.
I knew that and there are all the information about sheet film but
I did't find some particular information about the 6x6 roll film developed in Tank, for that I decide to ask and be sure that
I'm going to do all in the best way... is the first time with the Pyrocat, I don't want start in the wrong way with it, some personal suggest and a little check about the method that I'm going to use by somebody with more experience will be very helpful for me.

[Steve Sherman]

I regularly used HP 5 with Reduced agitation forms of development. I use three agitation cycles at varying intervals based on scene contrast and end result contrast.

The water bath (double) you speak of will increase the chance of mottling especially in even toned areas as well as other detractors more involved to discuss here.

Total time in solution is a product of dilution, time, agitation and scene contrast
Hi,

Today I'm going to order for the first time the Pyrocat HD, and I want just be sure to use it in a proper way.

I 'll buy the liquid A-B version to develop 6x6 medium format negative in TANK.
Film Tmax 400 and Hp5

Do you suggest to me the double-bath or the stand development? To do the stand developer is it better use low speed film like Tmax100 and fp5 than the Tmax 400 and Hp5? I read by Sandy King that high speed film may give lots of problems with stand development...

Anyway, please tell me if the both processes is right in this way;

STAND FOR 6x6 film in tank :

work temperature 21°C ( 70°F)

5 minutes pre-soak (how do the agitations?)

pour in the tank the solution 2:2:400-500 2 parts A + 2 parts B + 400-500 parts of water

agitate vigorously for 60 second then leave it for 45-60 minutes with just some 5 seconds agitation in the middle.

stop just in water, agitate the tank for 30 seconds

fix bath in TF4 for 6 minutes (how do the agitations?)

wash in water for 30 minutes



DOUBLE-BATH in tank : (it should give more acutance and sharpness than the one bath develop with minimal agitation?)

work temperature 23°C (75°F)

1+10 dilution of both parts A and B

pre-soak 5 minutes

7 minutes (15 % time more than the usually 6m because in tank) in part A. 2 inversions at the start then 2 at 1/4 , 1/2 , 3/4 points of the develop

5 minutes 45 seconds ( 15% time more than the usually 5m because in tank) 1 vigorous agitation for the first minute the 2 or 3 inversions at 1/4 , 1/2 , 3/4 points of the develop

pour water and leave it for 5 minutes

fix bath in TF4 for 6 minutes

wash in water for 30 minutes



Is it all right? Any suggestions?


Thanks.

[Pasukaru]

The water bath (double) you speak of will increase the chance of mottling especially in even toned areas as well as other detractors more involved to discuss here.



do you mean the 5 minutes in the water bath after the B solution on the double-bath?

If you speak about that in the develop direction there is write :

"The purpose of the relatively long time in B and the final water bath is to allow developer exhaustion for maximum adjacency effects."


Maybe I misunderstanding something, I copy the full version about it :


Development directions:

Water bath pre-soak for five minutes.
Six minutes* in Part A, with two inversions at the beginning, and two inversions at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of development.
Pour our Solution A and pour in Solution B. No rinse between.
Five minutes* in Solution B.
Negatives must be fully immersed in Solution B and agitated vigorously for at least one full minute. Failure to do so, can result in uneven development. Two or three inversions at the 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 points of development.
Pour out B, pour in water and leave for five minutes.
* Increase by approximately 15% for tray or tank agitation.

The purpose of the relatively long time in B and the final water bath is to allow developer exhaustion for maximum adjacency effects.

Both Solution A and Solution B can be re-used several times within a three-four hour period but should be discarded at the end of a development session as they will go bad in about 10-12 hours.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I read by Sandy King that high speed film may give lots of problems with stand development...

It may give problems... but that goes for ANY film and stand development. Stand development is risky. I regularly use HP5. I found that semi-stand gives me what I am looking for as far as edge effects are concerned.

[Gem Singer]

I agree with Andrew. pyro development needs getting used to.

Why don't you start out with a "normal" development routine using Pyrocat HD at the 1:1:100 dilution?

Once you get the results you are seeking, then try the stand or two bath method of development.

[Pasukaru]

because I want just try it, the worse thing that can happen is waste some films... and for me is ok.

[Steve Sherman]

Apologies, I mis read your post, my experience with water bath is as I stated, similar to the method that Ansel Adams used in the 40's not the 2 part method that Sandy King suggests. That said, the dilution you initially spoke of at 2:2:400-500 maybe a bit weak. In my initial tests some years ago I was successful at 1:1.5:175 but when I pushed dilution beyond 200:1 I got poor results.

Also, the second technique you speak of yielded me at most a .65 Above film base + fog. It was my hope to elevate the entire presoak, A and B stages of the process to effect a higher CI suitable for silver gelatin printing. In the end I felt the margin of error to great for the ladder method.

Do stay with the process as the results are rewarding and will open possibilities heretofore unattainable!

[Eric Rose]

Check out Sandy King's website http://sandykingphotography.com

[sanking]

Check out Sandy King's website http://sandykingphotography.com

The article on pyro staining developers at my personal web site treats in some detail many issues about standard development using the 1+1+100 or 2+2+100 dilution using various forms of agitation, and also covers the specialized agitation procedures referred to as minimal agitation, stand, and stand.

For information about the use of Pyrocat as a 2-bath developer, which I have promoted as a solution for scenes of very high contrast, please see the Pyrocat web site, http://pyrocat-hd.com/. In particular have a look at the threads in the section Divided Pyrocat as a 2-bath compensating developer. There is a lot of information in this section that results from the actual experience of many who have tried Pyrocat as a two-bath developer. And please bear in mind that I do not promote two-bath development, whether with Pyrocat or other two-bath developers like Diafine and divided D23, as a replacement for standard development procedures. Rather, I recommend, and in my work limits the use of this technique to three situations: 1) to control contrast in scenes of very high contrast, 2) when you expose and develop film to scan and print digitally, and 3) for medium format film where the exposures on each roll may contain scenes of greatly varying contrast.

As a general rule I pre-soak all films with all methods of development for about three minutes in water that is pH neutral. I don't claim that it is necessary, but I can say that in over three decades of developing film I have never seen any harm come from the pre-soak.

Sandy