Pyrocat-HD is incredible

[BarryS]

I finally ran out of the Pyrocat HD stock in glycol I bought from Photographer's Formulary at least three years ago. Never once did the developer fail me, down to the bitter dregs. I mixed up my own Pyrocat last week and it behaves exactly the same as the old stock. I always mix in distilled H2O and control the temperature; if you do that, the results will always be the same. Can't ask for more than that. Thank you Sandy King.

[Sudekeye]

BarryS,

You are right. That is developer I have settled on. Distilled water is indeed needed, as well as controlled time/temp, etc. I do enjoy using it.

Fred

[IanG]

My experience is made up in deionised water Pyrocat HD last 18 months even in a part filled bottle as long as the bottles are glass or high density plastic and the metabisulphite is reasonably fresh.

I've also made up part A in Glycol at double strength and that keeps extremely well, I only do this because flying with liquid chemistry eats into my baggage allowance a Litre of dev is over a kilo, sometimes I have a 15 or 20 Kg allowance and any excess is very expensive !!!

I'm reading two articles about modern uses of Pyro devs written late 30's & mid 40's and I have others from the 70's & 80's and they all suggest that despite then major companies totally dropping Pyro devs many felt newr formulae still had a a place for producing high quality negatives.

HC110 used Pyrocatecin at one point so Kodak knew it's potential.

Ian

[Peter Yeti]

I also really like Pyrocat HD and I prefer mixing part A in glycol. When mixing it in water, I had some problems with precipitation, which never occurred in glycol. I mix the working solution with tap water and never saw any problems with that.



I'm reading two articles about modern uses of Pyro devs written late 30's & mid 40's and I have others from the 70's & 80's and they all suggest that despite then major companies totally dropping Pyro devs many felt newr formulae still had a a place for producing high quality negatives.

HC110 used Pyrocatecin at one point so Kodak knew it's potential.

Ian

My all-time favourite commercial developer always used Pyrocatechin: Agfa Atomal. I still use it for all my 120 film because it gives full speed, great tonal range, and very fine grain. And I keep being puzzled why this seems to be a developer of little popularity.

[BarryS]

I suppose the toxicity of catechol has kept it out of modern developers, but it's a shame. I had no idea Atomal used catechol--but it's a product I haven't seen much of on store shelves. I didn't even mention the UV density kick for alt-process work from the proportional staining. That's a big benefit.

[Peter De Smidt]

I'm a big fan as well. It's very versatile. For instance it works well in my Jobo, thank goodness. Moreover, the two bath version does the best job with high SBR scenes of any developer that I've used.

[Kirk Gittings]

I'm a big fan as well. It's very versatile. For instance it works well in my Jobo, thank goodness. Moreover, the two bath version does the best job with high SBR scenes of any developer that I've used.

Ditto with BTZS tubes though. It just flat works.

[tgtaylor]

I've had great success with WD2D+ that I purchased several years back. Over the weekend I picked up Pyrocat HD at a local supplier with the intent to tray process a couple of 8x10 negatives with each and see how they print. Frankly I'm excited about Pyro and have delayed replenishing the 5-liter container of Xtol that I usually have available. Actually not having enough Xtol made-up to develop a batch coupled with a recommendation from Bob Carnie to try it and split-contrast printing, provided the needed impetus.

Thomas

[Kevin J. Kolosky]

I think it would be wonderful if some of you guys would take some photos using the exact same exposures and then process one of the negs in say d-76 and the other in pyrocat, and then contact print them, so that we could all see what the actuall difference really is.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there isn't a difference. I am just saying I have never read all of the books, etc. on it, and I have never really seen what the difference is. And I would like to.

[photobymike]

This is from my experience of well.... been over 2 years now





I have been using Pyrocat HD Glycol for over two years and here are some my observations.

1. Use pipettes to measure. This stuff is so concentrated that being off a small amount effects your out come.

2. I presoak for 5 minutes at development temperature. I change out the water 2 or 3 times for the presoak. It is needed to wash away the halation barrier. This has always been important... use distilled water... the PH is slightly acid which is ok... tap water who knows what it is.....

3. Use rubber gloves when handling this substance. If you use it a lot, it can accumulate in your system and be toxic.

4. Use distilled water for mixing. I use distilled water for all of my photo chemicals anyway.

5. The negatives scan really well with my scanner V750 epson. I seem to have a longer dynamic range by at least one stop.

6. I use a Beseler roller for development... but it seems to like stand alone tank with moderate agitation...twirl the reels in my paterson tanks.....4x5 always are rolled....

7. Dilute your Stop Bath... to strong and you get pin holes. Use a stop bath to get the film ready for the acid in your fixer. Some photo guys use just water for the stop bath... but i have found that just a little acid stop works better. i use alkli fixer especially for T-grain films.. for an extra 3 minutes. I have also used Kodak rapid fixer without the hardener works well. Fix for an extra 3 minutes for a total of 8 minutes

8. When you get ready to mix your developer. Roll your bottles of concentrate before using... there seems to be some separation and precipitate on the cap after sitting for a couple of days. Do not shake but make sure concentrate is mixed.

9. Because of the tanning (hardening effect) of the developer it seems the emulsion needs more washing than normal film.... i use very strong hypo clear (Orbit) for 2 minutes each in 2 baths with vigorous agitation.

10. I take the film off the reels and soak for 30 secs in Photo-Flo. Most important; I use distilled water to mix Photo-Flo. If you use regular water or tap water you will see a sledge or slim on your finished negs... The i use a very clean sponge to wipe away the excess Photo-Flo.

I do all of this and what i end up with is beautiful chocolate colored negatives that scan really well.

Any thing to add to these observations, or maybe some questions.

[BarryS]

Kevin-- I'm not sure there's any significant difference in image quality vs other developers--they all do the same basic job. Pyrocat HD rolls a lot of desirable qualities in one developer--very long shelf life, liquid concentrate, suitable for rotary processing, small tank, stand, divided development, proportional staining for alt process, inexpensive, open source, simple options to adjust activity with the stock solutions.


I think it would be wonderful if some of you guys would take some photos using the exact same exposures and then process one of the negs in say d-76 and the other in pyrocat, and then contact print them, so that we could all see what the actuall difference really is.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying there isn't a difference. I am just saying I have never read all of the books, etc. on it, and I have never really seen what the difference is. And I would like to.

[Pasukaru]

7. Dilute your Stop Bath... to strong and you get pin holes. Use a stop bath to get the film ready for the acid in your fixer. Some photo guys use just water for the stop bath... but i have found that just a little acid stop works better


How much do you dilute the stop bath?

Thanks.

[Andrew O'Neill]

It's been my main developer for the past decade. I don't bother mixing it in glycol as I go through a lot. If you don't develop film often, then glycol is the way to go. Glycol is bloody expensive up here as well.
Pyro developers allow you to print the same negative on silver and alt processes. I cannot do that with my xtol developed negs.

[jp]

The pyrocat hd in glycol is good stuff. Your advice and steps are good Mike, but I simplify further.

I presoak, but haven't needed to change the pre-soak water.
I don't use distilled water except for the fixer mixing and final rinse. YMMV with local water quality.
I use water for stop bath. fill, agitate gently for 30 second, dump, repeat.
I like the tf4 fixer as hypo clear isn't necessary.
Formulary's instructions specify an additional soaking in the used developer. I don't do this based on forum advice and practical experience.

[photobymike]

How much do you dilute the stop bath?

Thanks.

Actually very light yellow .... Almost its clear

[Eric Rose]

I have been using PyroCat-HD glycol for many years. I find no reason to use distilled water. Maybe the water here is really just that good :) I presoak for 2 minutes with no water changes. Water stop, about a minute and then into Ilford Rapid Fix normal dilution. Wash for 20 minutes.

[Scott Davis]

I got turned on to Pyrocat HD by Lee Carmichael (RIP). It's been terrific stuff and is my go-to developer for virtually anything now. I've used filtered tap water for mixing it and have seen no issues. The one thing I've noticed about it is that when it does go bad, it goes bad QUICKLY. You'll mix one batch of working strength and it will be fine, a few days later the next batch is still useable, and a day after that, it fails in a spectacular manner. This probably relates to oxidation of the concentrate when the bottles are getting low, but it's something to be aware of, especially when you go a long while between batches of film. Rodinal it ain't.

[Bruce Barlow]

I use water as a stop bath. Several folks I respect recommended that. no pinholes, no bother. Works as well is it needs to.

Pyrocat HD in glycol. Yup. I found it much better for expanded development that will get me good PT/PT negs, and those I can print on Lodima.

I found that it doesn't suppress the lower midtones like I found HC-110 to do (HC-110 was my developer of choice for 25 years, too. It took a lot to unseat it from its throne). Midtones glow. I have no direct comparisons, which is a great idea to do, and if I could under my current circumstances, I would. All I can say is that I saw a difference in the proofs, and liked the difference enough to become a convert..

Cheap nitrile gloves for sheet film, just for safety.

[Jim Noel]

It's been my main developer for the past decade. I don't bother mixing it in glycol as I go through a lot. If you don't develop film often, then glycol is the way to go. Glycol is bloody expensive up here as well.
Pyro developers allow you to print the same negative on silver and alt processes. I cannot do that with my xtol developed negs.
Got to an RV supply store and buy anti-freeze for drinking water systems. It is the cheapest6, most readily available source I have found.

[mikebarger]

I got turned on to Pyrocat HD by Lee Carmichael (RIP). It's been terrific stuff and is my go-to developer for virtually anything now. I've used filtered tap water for mixing it and have seen no issues. The one thing I've noticed about it is that when it does go bad, it goes bad QUICKLY. You'll mix one batch of working strength and it will be fine, a few days later the next batch is still useable, and a day after that, it fails in a spectacular manner. This probably relates to oxidation of the concentrate when the bottles are getting low, but it's something to be aware of, especially when you go a long while between batches of film. Rodinal it ain't.

I miss Lee's posts.

[sanking]

I miss Lee's posts.

Me too. Lee was a great guy and a wonderful photographer.

Sandy

[Scott Davis]

I'll never forget his comment on that video from the Texas Country Reporter show about the Texas Church Project - "digital is the devil's work".

[tgtaylor]

It's been my main developer for the past decade.
Pyro developers allow you to print the same negative on silver and alt processes. I cannot do that with my xtol developed negs.


That doesn't sound right to me. Are you saying that Pyrocat-HD allows you to develop the same negative at two different densities? I just can't imagine having one negative that exhibits two different densities simultaneously. Can you elaborate please?

Thomas

[sanking]

Thomas,

Yes, a pyro stained negative can have two different printing densities, if one process is blue or blue-green sensitive (as are silver papers) and the other process is a UV sensitive process (as are most alternative printing processes).

This has been known for a long time. Edward Weston commented on this characteristic of pyro stained negatives in his Daybooks.

Sandy

[tgtaylor]

Well that is certainly intriguing Sandy. Over the weekend I exposed 6 8x10 negatives on Delta 100 of 3 different subjects. I shot two of each for the express purpose of developing one for a silver print and the 2d for a salted paper print (I got hooked on the salt process and have delayed trying the albumen process until I have more fully explored the potential of the salted paper process). Considering that I will tray process the negatives, what development time would you recommend for Pyrocat-HD to print a negative as a silver and salt print?

Thomas

[sanking]

Well that is certainly intriguing Sandy. Over the weekend I exposed 6 8x10 negatives on Delta 100 of 3 different subjects. I shot two of each for the express purpose of developing one for a silver print and the 2d for a salted paper print (I got hooked on the salt process and have delayed trying the albumen process until I have more fully explored the potential of the salted paper process). Considering that I will tray process the negatives, what development time would you recommend for Pyrocat-HD to print a negative as a silver and salt print?

Thomas


Thomas,

I don't have much experience with Delta 100, but if you use the 2+2+100 dilution and develop in a tray at 72F for 14-18 minutes you should get enough contrast for salted paper. Then it would just be a case of using the filtration (0 or 1) you need for VC silver papers, or use a very low contrast (0 or 1) graded paper.

Sandy

[tgtaylor]

Thanks Sandy. I'll try that. But that would seem to preclude the split printing process with respect to the silver print - you print with the 00 filter for the highlights and with the 5 filter for the shadows/blacks.

thomas

[sanking]

Thanks Sandy. I'll try that. But that would seem to preclude the split printing process with respect to the silver print - you print with the 00 filter for the highlights and with the 5 filter for the shadows/blacks.

thomas

Thomas,

I don't believe the high density range negative would preclude split toning. With split toning you are using the 00 filters for the green sensitive (low contrast) component of the emulsion, and the 5 filter for the blue sensitive (high contrast) component.

But try it first. Since you have negatives for both processes develop first for the salted paper print and see if it will work in silver. You need so much contrast to optimize for salted paper that I don't believe it would be possible to over-develop with the 2+2+100 dilution.

Sandy

[tgtaylor]

Thomas,

I don't believe the high density range negative would preclude split toning. With split toning you are using the 00 filters for the green sensitive (low contrast) component of the emulsion, and the 5 filter for the blue sensitive (high contrast) component.

But try it first. Since you have negatives for both processes develop first for the salted paper print and see if it will work in silver. You need so much contrast to optimize for salted paper that I don't believe it would be possible to over-develop with the 2+2+100 dilution.

Sandy

That's a good idea Sandy.

One question: I usually rotary process Delta 100 in Xtol 1:1 for 20-21 minutes. If I tray process for that long with Pyrocat-HD at the above dilution, would I need to replenish the developer with fresh developer at some point before 20 minutes?

Thomas

[Andrew O'Neill]

Got to an RV supply store and buy anti-freeze for drinking water systems. It is the cheapest6, most readily available source I have found.

Thank you, Jim. Will do!

[sanking]

That's a good idea Sandy.

One question: I usually rotary process Delta 100 in Xtol 1:1 for 20-21 minutes. If I tray process for that long with Pyrocat-HD at the above dilution, would I need to replenish the developer with fresh developer at some point before 20 minutes?

Thomas

Thomas,

I assumed you were going to develop in a tray. If you rotary process the film you should get enough DR for salted paper with the 2+2+100 dilution of Pyrocat-HD in 12-14 minutes. You do not need to add fresh developer because Pyrocat has very good anti-oxidation properties.

Sandy

[tgtaylor]

Thanks again sandy. I think that I will try both rotary and tray developing 3 tonight.

Thomas

[Alan Curtis]

After reading all the overwhelmingly positive evidence about Pyrocat HD I've decided to give it a try. I've used TRI-X and HC110 for about 30 years. Any suggestions about staying with TRI-X or switching to one of the Ilford films?

[Andrew O'Neill]

You know Tri-X inside and out. I'd recommend trying it with pyrocat-hd.

[Ken Lee]

After reading all the overwhelmingly positive evidence about Pyrocat HD I've decided to give it a try. I've used TRI-X and HC110 for about 30 years. Any suggestions about staying with TRI-X or switching to one of the Ilford films?

To see any difference, we'd want to compare the same film in both developers. That being said, HP5+ does very nicely in Pyrocat HD: it changes contrast in response to changes in development time in a linear way. That makes it very suitable for controlling contrast with changes in development time, over a broad range.

See this page (http://unblinkingeye.com/Articles/PCat/PCat4/pcat4.html) to compare a variety of films. HP5+ is figure 20. Unless I'm mistaken, the only film which is more linear in this regard, is Kodak TMY (figure 24).

[Alan Curtis]

Thanks very much Andrew and Ken. I'll start with TRI-X mainly because I have a freeze full. From what I've read and seen on this forum I will try HP5+. It appears that Pyrocat HD is superior in dealing with high contrast scenes from the compensating HC110 dilution I've used in the past.