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jackconrad
28-May-2013, 11:48
I found this monster Wollensak 63mm f4 W.A. (Pro-70)??? yesterday and have no idea what it might be used for or what photographic device it was intended to be used on.
The lens groups are rather small but the barrel is HUGE, and it's a focusing barrel that focuses from 1.2 ft to infinity.
My first thought was that it's an aerial lens that fits on a big medium format aerial camera??, but then I thought it may be an enlarging lens, but with barrel focusing to infinity??
Anyway, I've found no Google info on this beast. I'll attempt to add a few snapshots of it for your perusal. I'd appreciate any comments on what this might have been used with....
Or if it's possible to use the lens groups on another shutter or barrel to put on one of my Speed/Crown Graphics. I placed the thing next to a typical lens shutter and board to emphasize the size.
Thanks in advance for any information.

95928959299593095931

IanG
28-May-2013, 12:15
The lens itself isn't special, it's just the use, probably military and may well be aerial use, a large focussing helical and aperture scale maybe to allow easy use in difficult conditions.

The lens cells may fit a small Alphax shutter but they are unlikely to cover 5x4.

Ian

Dan Fromm
28-May-2013, 12:37
That it is marked in t/stops strongly suggests it is a cine lens.

Ian, few lenses for aerial cameras are in focusing mounts.

IanG
28-May-2013, 13:38
That it is marked in t/stops strongly suggests it is a cine lens.

Ian, few lenses for aerial cameras are in focusing mounts.

Dan, why would you put a cine lens in such a large barrel and it's a 63mm WA lens which makes it unlikely to be a cine lens, it's more likely from a military high speed camera, as in frames per second, or something equally as specialised, probably using 70mm film. The box apperas to be military.

Ian

jackconrad
28-May-2013, 14:01
It's labelled W.A. which I assume means Wide Angle, but if it's a cine lens for a 35mm movie camera, 63mm would be on the long side as opposed to wide, wouldn't it?

Dan Fromm
28-May-2013, 14:08
Ian, I can't explain the barrel's size. Integral lens hood is possible. I have a 100/5.6 S.F.O.M. aerial camera (no doubt about that) lens that has a similarly large outer barrel. It doesn't have a focusing mount and its aperture is scaled in f/stops.

It isn't obvious that the box will hold the lens securely, so it may not be original to the lens.

Aerial camera lenses typically have three or four pins (120 or 90 degrees apart) at the front of the barrel to hold a spring-loaded filter. This because aircraft vibrate and no one wants filters to vibrate off lenses. I can't see pins on the lens we're discussing.

It could well be for a high speed cine camera. Wollensak made some and made lenses for other makers' high speed cameras. As I said, that the aperture is calibrated in t/stops suggests a cine lens.

The focusing mount is inconsistent with aerial camera practice. In the typical aerial camera that accepts interchangeable lenses, the lens screws into in a mount (usually called a cone) that attaches to the front of the camera. The lens is collimated to the camera and then is locked in the cone with radial set screws. The setscrews are usually glued in place to keep them from vibrating out and letting the lens vibrate out of collimation.

I'm aware of one so-called aerial camera whose lenses are in focusing mounts. Peckham-Wray, and it was really a half-assed press camera.

jackconrad
28-May-2013, 14:08
why would you put a cine lens in such a large barrel and it's a 63mm WA lens which makes it unlikely to be a cine lens, it's more likely from a military high speed camera, as in frames per second, or something equally as specialised, probably using 70mm film. The box apperas to be military.


70mm film... that's interesting. I know nothing about that format. And yea, I'd guess the box is either military or at least institutional.

jackconrad
28-May-2013, 14:19
It isn't obvious that the box was made to hold the lens securely.
The box has cushioning on top and bottom and was designed to hold the lens snug when closed. In other words it's purpose built for that lens, I'm pretty sure.

jackconrad
28-May-2013, 14:21
I think the number 8 filter would have to fit over the barrel using friction on the outer zebra nubs.

jackconrad
28-May-2013, 14:46
The Peckham-Wray 4x5 looks promising. I wonder if there were any US made cameras based on that design?
This lens was found in Florida.

95938

https://sites.google.com/site/cameraclassics/peckham-wray-in-detail

IanG
28-May-2013, 14:47
When I started to take photography seriously in the late 60's as a teenager I used to buy ex-Government (UK) surplus bulk Ilford film from suppliers around London, most had a common partner. Later I visited a few of the stores, they had some strange and weird ex militaray cameras and lenses as well as a large quantity of ex-RAF 5x4 cameras, strangely it's rare to see any of that equipment being sold now.

UK equivalent lenses like this were the kind of thing you'd come across regularly.

Ian

Dan Fromm
28-May-2013, 15:20
The Peckham-Wray 4x5 looks promising. I wonder if there were any US made cameras based on that design?


No. None. As I said, the Peckham-Wray was really a press camera, not a serious aerial camera, the official story notwithstanding. It was in some ways a scaled-up Corfield Periflex. Diabolical design. Periscope for focusing whatever was in the center of the field of view, viewfinder for aiming. Very Rube Goldberg (in British English, Heath Robinson). I've never had a Peckham-Wray, have had 135/4.7 Lustrars on P-W cones complete with focusing helicals. Have had a Periflex, don't recommend it; if you want a thread mount Leica, get one or a good grade of clone.

Serious aerial cameras for reconnaissance (see what's there, see what bombing accomplished) and mapping and checking pilots' ability to aim ("gun cameras", typically shot 16 mm film) aren't hand-held. They're mounted securely to the aircraft. Vinten F95 cameras, which appear to be similar to the hand-held Williamson F134/AGI F139/Agiflite, were made to be bolted securely into camera pods. eBay listings offering WW-II vintage aerial cameras with grips or 70 mm cameras as mapping cameras are just plain silly.

jackconrad
28-May-2013, 16:02
I'm starting to think this thing is a Cine lens for 70mm film. There's a green sticker on the side of the box that says Technicolor AF GFP.
It being designed for 70mm film might also explain the (Pro-70) on the beauty ring of the Wollensak lens.

jackconrad
28-May-2013, 16:09
By the way, thank you both, Dan Fromm and IanG. You guys are precious information sources for film photography and have contributed amazing online info over the years. My compliments.

Vincent Pidone
28-May-2013, 17:41
why would you put a cine lens in such a large barrel

So you can focus while wearing gloves?

Jim Galli
28-May-2013, 19:28
There were also 70mm high speed cine cameras used by our government in laboratory type testing. We had prism cameras in 70mm format that could run 360 fps on 70mm film. (fps = frames per second) And we still have some pin registered ones that could run at 120 fps with 70mm cine film.

We'll never use them again, though we still have usable 70mm film in the freezer. The chinese don't want to wait for film developing before we give the information away.

goamules
28-May-2013, 19:42
...Serious aerial cameras for reconnaissance (see what's there, see what bombing accomplished) and mapping and checking pilots' ability to aim ("gun cameras", typically shot 16 mm film) aren't hand-held. They're mounted securely to the aircraft. ...

Nothing serious about this one....

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01485/waaf-1_1485574i.jpg (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/6213523/World-War-2-in-pictures-Women-at-war.html?image=3)

Dan Fromm
29-May-2013, 04:45
Garrett, from left to right, a camera used for training gunners (the camera didn't fly), a gun camera (mounted solidly, usually inside the aircraft's wing) and a reconnaissance camera made to be (a) shot hand-held, usually for oblique shots, and (b) mounted solidly, usually pointing down.