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Regular Rod
27-May-2013, 08:26
You may find this helpful if you are looking for a method of working that avoids marks on the film edges and allows you to use poisonous chemicals without coming into skin contact with them. The Paterson Orbital Processor is best thought of as a tray, with all the advantages of tray development, but you use it in daylight.

Some modifications to the Processor and to the Method of using it are necessary but they are all easy to accommodate. Here's how. (http://freepdfhosting.com/f640343f29.pdf)

RR

TimHenrion
28-May-2013, 06:50
Why would I want to do this instead of using a Mod54? (http://www.mod54.com)

Light Guru
28-May-2013, 07:51
Why would I want to do this instead of using a Mod54? (http://www.mod54.com)

Because the mod54 is notorious for having film coming out of position during developing. The film pops out of place and touches another sheet of film and 2 sheets are then ruined.

Regular Rod
29-May-2013, 00:29
Why would I want to do this instead of using a Mod54? (http://www.mod54.com)

The Paterson Orbital Processor is very easy to load. It's as easy as laying a sheet of film into a tray. There are no constant contact areas on the film edges to make turbulence in the developer, which in turn overdevelops points on the film edges. It can be used for a wider choice of film sizes, i.e. up to four sheets of 4x5 at once, two sheets of 5x7 at once, or single sheets at a time of 8x10 (or 6˝ x 8˝). Being a tray (with a lid) makes it ideal for stand and semi-stand development. There are fewer spills with the Orbital Processor because the agitation is done by rocking and not inversion, which with the Mod54 in a reel tank is the case and does leak onto your hands and work surface especially if the process causes gas pressure to build up.

RR

TimHenrion
29-May-2013, 01:10
OK, I can definitely see the advantages for non-4x5. If I made the move to 8x10, I'd definitely try to find one of these.

As far as sheets popping out of of the Mod45, I own three of them (one of the old style and two of the newer Mk27) and I've never had that happen. As far as the spills and processes that case gas pressure, why not use the Paterson "twist" agitation?

Lachlan 717
29-May-2013, 01:31
Is this for 1 sheet at a time only? If it is, doesn't 500ml seem excessive? And, if it is only a single sheet system, doesn't the time to do multiple sheets become a PITA?

Also, I think that I might have an issue with the statement made in the .pdf, "Constant agitation is no good for controlling contrast and tonal range". A few generations of Jobo users might disagree…

And, speaking of Jobo, IMO I think that a Jobo 3006 runs rings around this set-up… YMMV.

tigger_six
29-May-2013, 01:41
OK, I can definitely see the advantages for non-4x5. If I made the move to 8x10, I'd definitely try to find one of these.

As far as sheets popping out of of the Mod45, I own three of them (one of the old style and two of the newer Mk27) and I've never had that happen. As far as the spills and processes that case gas pressure, why not use the Paterson "twist" agitation?

I use the Mod54 but I'm unable to get 100% even development even if I use only the 2 outside slots and fill the remaining 4 slots with dummies. I do not have problems with film slipping out, but that is probably because I use FP4+ and HP5+ which both have very firm base. I am usually developing in replenished XTOL around 10 minutes, with plenty of agitation.

Regular Rod
30-May-2013, 04:18
Is this for 1 sheet at a time only? If it is, doesn't 500ml seem excessive? And, if it is only a single sheet system, doesn't the time to do multiple sheets become a PITA?

Also, I think that I might have an issue with the statement made in the .pdf, "Constant agitation is no good for controlling contrast and tonal range". A few generations of Jobo users might disagree…

And, speaking of Jobo, IMO I think that a Jobo 3006 runs rings around this set-up… YMMV.

Up to 4 sheets at a time with 4x5, 2 sheets at a time with 5x7 and then bigger than that is single sheets. For black and white 500ml of working solution is fine for me as I use 5ml of 510-PYRO concentrate, or 1ml of OBSIDIAN AQUA. Neither of these developers is expensive, in fact OBSIDIAN AQUA is downright, dirt cheap.

You could well be right about JOBO users for colour work but stand and semi-stand development are not possible with the JOBO rotating drum method and small quantities of developer, which certainly limits how much control is possible with black and white negatives. If time is a serious consideration then might not digital be a better option than large format film?

RR

Ironage
30-May-2013, 05:52
Hey! Thanks for this topic! I have one of these, and it wasn't working perfectly for me. I will consider these modifications and give it a try. Although I purchased mine years ago, they are very pricey now, and I am a little hesitant chopping it up, but it is a tool, not a treasure, and needs to do the best job possible.

Ed Bray
30-May-2013, 06:41
Just my two penneth, I have been using an Orbital processor in this fashion for semi-stand processing using Caffenol CL prior to getting my Expert Tank. I do however change a few things:

Firstly I did not cut off the vanes from the lid, it works for me with them installed, secondly the base of my tank just has a few score lines in it which were then sanded down smooth (if I was doing it again I would glue tiddlywinks in a nice pattern to the base), I use the same red pegs that came with the orbital and I only use 400mls of developer.

I sit the Orbital (without base) in a water bath (in a 10x12 dev tray) that is kept at a constant temperature of 22° C (on a dish heater) to ensure that the developer temperature does not drop below 21° during the 65 minutes of my development regime. I use a 4 minute pre-wet to get rid of the anti-halation backing and to warm the tank (dry) before siting it in the water bath just prior to adding the 400mls of developer. I then gently rock the Orbital for 30 seconds then give 3 gentle rocks after a further 2 mins, 4 mins, 8 mins, 16 mins before discarding the developer after a further 34.5 minutes. Then a few changes of water before fixing with TF-3.

The two images below were done in this fashion a fraction over a year ago.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7072/7290282858_b8ff10b8bf_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edbray/7290282858/)
Nikki Mother (in the style of JMC) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edbray/7290282858/) by Ed Bray (http://www.flickr.com/people/edbray/), on Flickr

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7085/7263686130_9cd213f301_c.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edbray/7263686130/)
Gorse and Woods (http://www.flickr.com/photos/edbray/7263686130/) by Ed Bray (http://www.flickr.com/people/edbray/), on Flickr

TimHenrion
24-Jun-2013, 06:16
As far as the spills and processes that case gas pressure, why not use the Paterson "twist" agitation?

Oops, belay that. Definitely DON'T use the Paterson swizzle stick agitation with a MOD54. I tried it the other day and got dark bands on the negatives at the same level as where the film touches the mounting notches. Then I went onto the MOD54 website where Morgan confirms DON'T use the Paterson twist agitation. Went back to inversion and everything's fine. If you have problems with film popping out of the MOD54, I'd recommend the more 'gentle' agitation that Morgan recommends on his website (there's a video). He also has another video where he demonstrates vigorous agitation and shows that the film doesn't pop out.

TimHenrion
24-Jun-2013, 06:26
I use the Mod54 but I'm unable to get 100% even development even if I use only the 2 outside slots and fill the remaining 4 slots with dummies. I do not have problems with film slipping out, but that is probably because I use FP4+ and HP5+ which both have very firm base. I am usually developing in replenished XTOL around 10 minutes, with plenty of agitation.

What are you using for agitation technique? See my previous post on Swizzle Stick agitation giving uneven results with the MOD54 (Morgan specifically warns against it on the MOD54 website). I'd recommend watching Morgan's videos on the website, paying attention to the agitation technique. It focuses on vertical solution flow using gentle agitation as well as incorporating a quarter-twist of the tank on each inversion to ensure that full solution flow is uniform throughout the inversion process.

Its the MOD54, apparently its important that the agitation technique ensures that the solution flow during agitation is vertically over the film (as in from top to bottom of the tank). The design of the MOD54 itself introduces problems if you attempt agitation that is solely horizontal over the film (as in twist agitation). The only times I've ever had uneven development with the MOD54 was when I was doing Swizzle Stick agitation.

FWIW, I'm using only FP4+ & HP5+ as well. The base of those film does seem fairly thick. No doubt this helps the film stay in place. However, the design of the Mk27 appears to specifically ensure that the film is held in place at both the sides and the top/bottom. You'd have to agitate the whole thing pretty hard to cause the film to flex enough to pop out of the holding notches.

Light Guru
24-Jun-2013, 07:42
What are you using for agitation technique? See my previous post on Swizzle Stick agitation giving uneven results with the MOD54 (Morgan specifically warns against it on the MOD54 website). I'd recommend watching Morgan's videos on the website, paying attention to the agitation technique. It focuses on vertical solution flow using gentle agitation as well as incorporating a quarter-twist of the tank on each inversion to ensure that full solution flow is uniform throughout the inversion process.

Its the MOD54, apparently its important that the agitation technique ensures that the solution flow during agitation is vertically over the film (as in from top to bottom of the tank). The design of the MOD54 itself introduces problems if you attempt agitation that is solely horizontal over the film (as in twist agitation). The only times I've ever had uneven development with the MOD54 was when I was doing Swizzle Stick agitation.

FWIW, I'm using only FP4+ & HP5+ as well. The base of those film does seem fairly thick. No doubt this helps the film stay in place. However, the design of the Mk27 appears to specifically ensure that the film is held in place at both the sides and the top/bottom. You'd have to agitate the whole thing pretty hard to cause the film to flex enough to pop out of the holding notches.

I have only had success with the mod 54 with ilford film because of the thick base of the film. Any other films its a 50/50 chance of the film coming out. that simply does not cut it im my book, and agitate just like he shows in the videos, so no you DON'T have to agitate hard for film to come out.