Tri X - HC110 dilution G

[steve barry]

I have been using HC-110 dilution G for a few years, on both both acros 100 film and Arista 100 and getting results I am very very happy with in all formats 4x5, 8x10, 120 and 35mm.

Room temp chemicals (72-75 deg), 1:119, 60 seconds gentle agitation and then 45-60 minutes untouched.

It has been a while since I shot any high speed film, but I tried this method (as a starting point) on both Delta 3200 shot at 1600 and just now with Tri X 400 shot at 400. Two different cameras.

Both are so underdeveloped they are unprintable.

So I started looking around, and found people using basically the same thing I have been doing, on Tri X and getting good results:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/hc-110/discuss/72157627740433943/

what gives?

[steve barry]

All from the same bottle of HC110 syrup.

Here is a 35mm acros developed this way:
95821

crop:
95822

645 TriX:
95823

66 Delta:
95824

[Jim Noel]

Very few people use Tri-X at an EI of 400. It generally tests out closer to 160. This said, the Tri-x is underexposed by at least one stop. I can not speak to the Delta since I have never used it or other ultra speed films.
How old is your HC110 syrup? There is a possibility it has lost power or become contaminated. There is also is the possibility that you accidentally over-diluted the developer.

[steve barry]

It is off by way more than one or two stops though. There is barely anything on the film. Can barely read Kodak. All of the above photos were developed separately using the same batch of developer one day apart. I mix one ounce of syrup in one gallon of water. When I use it I fill a one reel Paterson tank. And toss spent developer.

[Roger Cole]

Very few people use Tri-X at an EI of 400. It generally tests out closer to 160. This said, the Tri-x is underexposed by at least one stop. I can not speak to the Delta since I have never used it or other ultra speed films.
How old is your HC110 syrup? There is a possibility it has lost power or become contaminated. There is also is the possibility that you accidentally over-diluted the developer.

Eh? Yeah, it will "test" that way for zone system purposes but it's fine at box speed if developed appropriately. It's pretty good at higher than box speed in some developers. If HC-110 dilution G doesn't work well, try something else. I develop it in T-Max RS 1+5 or D76 1+1, shoot at 400, and I'm very satisfied with the negatives.

[David R Munson]

Does that mean that the film that looks like hell was developed using day-old developer? I get the feeling that working-strength developer is going to fade fairly quickly compared to stock or concentrate anyway, and if that working strength is something as dilute as dilution G, that may be your problem right there. I love dilution G and have standardized on it, but I mix it up and use it on the spot. I'd be wary of letting dilution G sit and using it the next day.

[steve barry]

Roger thanks. I used TriX and D76 as my only film/dev for a number of years, and do like it. But I really like hc110 more than anything else I have tried. I would abandon it if others were not having great success with it at dilution G for TriX. But since they are having success using it, I would really like to figure out what I am doing wrong.

David - I hear what you are saying, but I have let mixed developer sit for up to one week and it was all good.

The 6x6 film was the first development on a fresh batch of gallon developer.

[steve barry]

It must be the film, all I can think of. I tried another roll in HC110 dilution B and got similar results. Does not explain the Delta.

I did notice last night when I was dumping the developer (after development was complete) there was a slight brown/red tint to the developer?

[Roger Cole]

What times are you using? While I've not used HC110 I've always read that Kodak's recommended times fir Tri-X in it are comically short and it needs much longer than Kodak says.

[Jim Noel]

It is off by way more than one or two stops though. There is barely anything on the film. Can barely read Kodak. All of the above photos were developed separately using the same batch of developer one day apart. I mix one ounce of syrup in one gallon of water. When I use it I fill a one reel Paterson tank. And toss spent developer.
You have your answer in this response. "All of the above were developed separately using the same batch of developer one day apart."
This is a one shot developer. It's active developing agent is used up, or nearly so, with the first batch of film. Even if re-used immediately with a second batch of film it will likely result in under-development. It certainly will not keep overnight.

[steve barry]

Hi Roger, I did read that when I was looking. I think Kodak publications said 3.5 minutes or something.

I did HC-110 dilution B for 7.5 minutes at 70 degrees. Agitate first minute, and then 10 seconds every minute. Should be all good, or at least a decent starting point.

The film has different expire dates, so thinking about it, probably not the film, but I have no idea.

[steve barry]

Hi Jim, I mix up a gallon of dilution G developer at a time (one ounce per gallon of water), and then divvy that gallon into 4 sessions. I am not reusing the developer.

And even though I have used the mixed HC110 dil G for up to a week after first mixed, with no difference in development, I did a roll last night on a single, fresh batch made at dilution B. Same problem.

[Daniel Stone]

Personally,
I only mix up HC110 if I plan on using RIGHT THEN, AT THE MOMENT. I mix it up(I use Dilution H, 1/2 the dilution of B, double the time), use it ONCE, and dump it.
http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/hc-110-h.php

never had an issue whatsoever with tri-x, tmax, plus-x, ilford or fuji b/w films. no issues as long as I gave it enough development time-wise.

-Dan

[steve barry]

Hi Dan thanks. I will mix single use batches of hc110 going forward, but the 6x6 roll and the roll last night (dil b) were both fresh mix.

[Daniel Stone]

the only thing I could think of is that you might have mixed up your dev, or stored it in a fixer-contaminated bottle/container?

that's the only other option I could consider in this instance

-Dan

[steve barry]

Hey Dan, thanks again. Had not even thought of that, but no should be all good. The 35mm example was second film to be developed from the batch of HC110 dil G developer and it came out as expected.

BTW - all this small format film is working toward large format - I always experiment first on the smaller formats. I am trying to find a faster film to use with HC110.

Day one:
* Mixed 1 gallon of HC110 dil G
* 30oz of HC110 went to 6x6 ilford Delta (way underdeveloped)
95994

Day two:
* 30oz of HC110 went to 35mm acros (good development)
95995

Day three:
* 30oz of HC110 went to 35mm acros (good development)

Day four:
* 30oz of HC110 went to 645 Tri X (way underdeveloped)
95996

Day five - figured I would try a different dilution of HC110:
* Mixed 30oz of HC110 dil B
* 30oz of HC110 went to 645 Tri X (way underdeveloped)
95997

The Tri X in dil B was just as bad as the others - I spent about 20 minutes in LR trying to salvage something. It may look decent small, but it is terrible.