Pyrocat Staining Developers

[tenderobject]

Pardon if this was posted before. I have a few questions about Pyrocat staining developers. I've seen a lot of people here uses these developers with brilliant results! That is why i like to try it for 120, 4x5 and soon 8x10. :)

I went on B&S site and their prices looks very nice. (ie: http://www.bostick-sullivan.com/cart/product.php?productid=548&cat=406&page=1)

The Pyrocat HD developer kit for $29.00 + shipping. It is a 50 Litre working solution kit. I think that's a lot compare to the developers i've used before and available here in Iran. (ie: kodak d76 and ilford id-11, ilfosol s). These are far more cheaper i think. Did i read their info right? :)

So, for 50 litre working solution, i could develop like atleast 100 rolls of 120 films or 300 4x5 sheets using mod54 and paterson system 4 3 reel tank (1000ml tank). Am i correct?

How's the sheflife of these developers? I'm planning to use Pyro on Ilford, Foma, Kodak films and hopefully X-ray films. Are these developers forgiving with any kind of films?

I'm very curious if it's possible to ship these kits internationally without problem. I can't find the MSD sheet on their site. I hope the components are not a banned substance or something. I don't like any problems here. :D I managed to get liquid chems from Moersch without any problem with customs. So far. :D

Thank you very much!

[Peter De Smidt]

If you need to keep the developer for awhile, investigate the versions that use glycol. I just developed some film today in Pyrocat MC in glycol that I bought a couple of years ago. Everything went well.

[tenderobject]

Thanks Peter. I would be needing TF4 or Alkaline fixer to match with the Pyro Developer right? Are there any other alternatives?

[Jim Noel]

Any non-hardening fixer is OK. I prefer to use plain sodium thiosulfate (hypo).

[Peter De Smidt]

I use Rapid Fix, i.e. ammonium thiosulfate, without any added acid. It works fine.

[joselsgil]

tenderobject,

If you get a chance, pick up the book "The Book of Pyro " by Gordon Hutchins. It contains many different Pyro formulas.

Also, you may want to check out the unblinkingeye.com website.

[Dan Henderson]

You might also check into buying bulk chemicals and mixing your own pyro-based developers. You would avoid the cost of shipping the water in which the stock solution is mixed halfway across the world. You might even be able to purchase the bulk chemicals in either of the countries in which you live.

[BarryS]

Pyrocat HD in glycol seems to last indefinitely and yes--it's really inexpensive. I use it for most of my film and it works beautifully. Shipping the Pyrocat shouldn't be too expensive, it comes in two 500 ml plastic bottles. TF-4 on the other hand, will cost a fortune. Best to mix a non-hardening alkaline fixer locally. I Just started mixing my own Pyrocat HD, and although it's easy, it's not like you're going to save much money unless you use developer by the gallon.

[Peter Lewin]

Is it really less expensive to mix your own alkaline fixer? My impression was that the primary ingredient, ammonium thiosulfate IIRC, is both expensive and not easy to find. If you buy it from the Formulary, you are buying it from the same source as TF-4.

[BarryS]

TF-4 isn't expensive, but international shipping will cost a fortune. It costs a lot just to ship domestically.

[tenderobject]

Thanks a lot guys for the input. Would there be an easy way to mix my own fixer for Pyro? Can you give me links for formulae and instructions?

Thanks again. I will give some time researching more about this.

About the Alkaline fixer. i think i can get Sodium or Ammonium thiosulfate here.

[Ed Bray]

TF-3 Formula (http://www.digitaltruth.com/data/tf3.php)

I use this with Pyrocat HD and Divided Pyrocat HD, works well for me.

[Peter Yeti]

Here is a formula for TF-3 alkaline rapid fixer by Steve Anchell:

800 ml of 60% ammonium thiosulfate solution (480g of pure ammonium thiosulfate)
60 g sodium sulfite
5 g sodium metaborate
water to make 1 l.

dilute 1:4 to make working solution.

[tenderobject]

thank you guys!!! i will look for these chems before getting the pyro kit! :)

[Eric Rose]

Check out Sandy King's new website http://sandykingphotography.com

[IanG]

You can use Hypam or Ilford/Kodak Rapid fixer (no hardener) with Pyrocat negatives, there's no difference compared to a neutral or barely alkaine fixer.

It's worth pointing out that you need to use a stop bath before an alkali fixer (water's not enough) or you run an extremely high risk of dichroic fog. This has been seen by Ron Mowrey who came up with TF3

Ian

[Peter De Smidt]

You can use Hypam or Ilford/Kodak Rapid fixer (no hardener) with Pyrocat negatives, there's no difference compared to a neutral or barely alkaine fixer.

It's worth pointing out that you need to use a stop bath before an alkali fixer (water's not enough) or you run an extremely high risk of dichroic fog. This has been seen by Ron Mowrey who came up with TF3

Ian

I use standard acetic acid stop bath at 1/2 normal strength when I develop with any pyro developer.

[Peter Lewin]

What is dichroic fog? I've been using PMK for a very long time, with a water stop bath in between the PMK and the TF-4, but perhaps dichroic fog looks like stain? Gordon Hutchings recommends a water stop, I haven't heard that he changed that recommendation (although most of us are aware that he did reverse his recommendation for the used-developer after-bath).

[sanking]

You can use Hypam or Ilford/Kodak Rapid fixer (no hardener) with Pyrocat negatives, there's no difference compared to a neutral or barely alkaine fixer.

It's worth pointing out that you need to use a stop bath before an alkali fixer (water's not enough) or you run an extremely high risk of dichroic fog. This has been seen by Ron Mowrey who came up with TF3

Ian

And if anyone would know it would be Ron Mowrey! He is an incredible resource, wish he posted here.

I have also seen dichroic fog when using staining developers followed by a water stop bath and an alkaline fixer. And with both pyrogallol and pyrocatechol based developers. Could not figure out what it was for a long time, but changing back to a weak (1/2 normal strength) acetic acid stop bath before fixing eliminated the problem.

And I agree with Ian about the fixer, with Pyrocat any fixer that is neutral or barely alkaline will work fine, i.e. does not kill the stain. I believe the same could be said about PMK and other pyrogallol based developers but have not tested the concept extensively.

Sandy

[Doremus Scudder]

I use PMK with a slightly weaker than normal acetic or citric acid stop bath followed by Ilford Rapid Fix at "film strength." No dichroic fog ever and no problems with stain development ever. I have, however, had problems with an alkaline fixer re-activating carried-over developer and causing mottling and fog, even with a stop bath. I use an acid fixer for all film I develop in PMK now.

Best,

Doremus

[tenderobject]

Ian, Thank you. I can get Ilford Rapid Fixer here. I thought it's not good with Pyrocat developers? Should i use the TF3-TF4 instead? I might get the one in Glycol probably.
By the way, i use a DIY acid stop bath for my sheets and rolls films. Would this be good? Or should i just use water for stop bath. Although i'm not happy with our water here (chalky) but i didn't had any problems with the films i've developed here so far :D. And about Photo Flo. I might just use a DIY wetting agent for this (Distilled water+Wetting agent+Isoprophyl Alcohol). Would this be good for Pyro negs?

Thanks guys!!!


You can use Hypam or Ilford/Kodak Rapid fixer (no hardener) with Pyrocat negatives, there's no difference compared to a neutral or barely alkaine fixer.

It's worth pointing out that you need to use a stop bath before an alkali fixer (water's not enough) or you run an extremely high risk of dichroic fog. This has been seen by Ron Mowrey who came up with TF3

Ian