The film holder nightmare we all dread and what to do

[Heroique]

Most of us have awakened from the following nightmare in a cold, heavy sweat.

Some of us (like me) have actually suffered the experience:

You bring 7 loaded film holders, all identical, to a remote location. You’re there for a long weekend. No extra film, no film stores. Your first session, you take out 3 holders & expose all six shots. Everything goes perfectly. You put the holders back in the bag, no particular order. Hours later, your next session, you realize you didn’t reverse the darkslides for the 3 holders you used – nor did you indicate in any other way which ones they might be.

All you know is that you have 3 holders w/ six exposed sheets, and 4 holders w/ eight unexposed sheets – all mixed together. :(

After screams and curses, what’s your best strategy?

Any tips to share about managing multiple holders? Do you use more than one safeguard?

[Lenny Eiger]

Always have extra film and extra holders. At least back in the car...

I have two storage areas in my backpack. Once enough are used then one becomes the space for exposed ones. I can shoot a dozen holders in a day, without duplicating or bracketing. Why have only 7 for a whole weekend. Leave the camera on the tripod, take less time with each shot...

Just my 2cents.

Lenny

[Tav Walraven]

I have always,for decades that is, had multiple holders starting with 4x5, and presently 12x20. They have always been numbered 1 thru whatever the number is of that size. I have 10 11x14 holders and they are numbered 1 through 20, and in addition, I always keep a notebook of the date and the beginning holder # for the first shot, even if I start with say #7. The 4x5's always had the white strip like yours where you could sharpie the # in the corner. Now with the wooden holders in 11x14 and 12x20, I just take masking tape and put #1 on one side, #2 on the other, etc. (Fortunately, I do remember to turn the dark slide around after exposure). So IMO, just number your 7 holders 1-14 and shoot in their order AND KEEP NOTES for development of that #'d piece of film...( I do feel a notebook is your best friend )

[Bob Mann]

I keep loaded film holders in plastic bags (simple bags from Uline that are a close fit for the size of holder I am using) - after they are exposed, I do not put them back in the bags. When I reload holders - I clean, load and put in plastic bags. If I use more than one film type, I can write the name of the film on the bag.

[sun of sand]

your choices would be
keep 6 and be done
were they good shots?

shoot all of them
have 8 good shots and 6 original ruined

take one holder off top and bottom and dont expose
shoot all the rest
likely save 2 of original 6 but likely leave blank one holder
5 holders left two of which are exposed
6 good shots remaining
8 good shots total in all likelyhood
how good were those first 6 to take the additional risk to save 2 of em?


haven't you done this thread already?


I don't bother with black/white
i label with numbers 1a 2a in case of split darkslide use and make a note

If I were jammed to make the decision I shoot all again
a professional would have some deliberation
I'd assume they call it quits and keep 6

[Jerry Bodine]

'nuf said in favor of always carrying field notebook and using it. Holders numbered + exposure notes for each image.

[Scott Walker]

I use individual plastic bags for each film holder as well.
When I load my film I always try to use a bag marked with the same film as what is in the holder that way I only have to cross out the development.
Once a holder is exposed I put it back in the bag it came out of and write N-, N+, or N for side A and do the same for side B.
Even if the slides are put in wrong there is no chance of not knowing if the film has been exposed or not.
Field notes would help but I do not always take field notes.

[timparkin]

If you're short of money, you could clip the bottoms and develop, keeping careful notes of which is which.

Otherwise develop the lot and consider it a learning exercise..

The technique I use is to have two elastic bands around each double dark slide. They go width ways for unexposed so when they are in my bag I can two bands and know I've got film available. When I've taken a shot I take one of the bands and wrap it lengthways. This also ensures the darkslide doesn't drop out accidentally.

I keep the film in plastic bags as well to stop dust.

Because I use a few different types of film I also use different coloured elastic bands (red velvia, blue provia, yellow astia, orange neg, black black and white, etc) . It really helps to be able to see at a glance that film types and amounts left.

Tim

[Fredrick]

I carry a field notebook and all my holders are numbered. I have always practiced this, so this has never been a problem for me. I'm very much into careful planning, thankfully. I urge everyone also to do the same. Carry a notebook and number your holders.


-Fredrick.

[John Kasaian]

I'll bet you remember to reverse the dark slides next time;)

[David Karp]

For me, white or silver side out always means loaded and unexposed. Dark side showing means one of two things: 1) exposed film and 2) empty holder. To handle that issue, for 1) exposed film, I always put the holders back into their cooler darkslides down, tape side up. That tells me immediately they are unavailable. for 2) empty holder, I do not put them back into their storage bags, and leave them darkslides up in the cooler. I use insulated lunch coolers to hold my film holders.

I may have learned this procedure on the forum a while back.

I have never done what you did, in reinserting the darkslide light side out, so I guess that is one that I can look forward to. I regularly make all of the other mistakes!

If I was in your position, and I thought that I got something really worthwhile, I would just stop using the view camera and develop all the film. If there was nothing really grabbing me and I was just making photos to have some fun, I would use all the holders again and see what happened. There are always other photos.

[Bill Burk]

I'm spoiled by Grafmatics. They lock after you are done with them.

[Alan Butcher]

The things that I do:
1) All of my holders are numbered, both sides. Also I have notches cut in the holder that provides an identifying mark on negative.
2) I always expose the odd numbered side of the holder first. That way if I find a reversed darkslide on an even number, I assume that the odd side has been exposed even if the darkslide has not been reversed.
3) Always reverse darkslide.
4) I keep notes on all negatives, so this is also a check on which holders have been exposed.
5) Holders in Ziploc bags.

A few mistakes but fewer all the time. As for your session there is not solution except to quit taking pictures and develop all of the film.

[jeroldharter]

Does not help you now, but the Photobackpacker film holder bags are the way to go.

Don't you miss Readiloads for travel?

[Jerry Bodine]

As for your session there is not solution except to quit taking pictures and develop all of the film.

That's when Murphy would present me with a fantastic subject. Did you know that Murphy is an optimist?

[C_Remington]

Lots of advice but no answers. Well, one.

[Jerry Bodine]

Does not help you now, but the Photobackpacker film holder bags are the way to go.

Jerold, you got that right. Wonderful system. BTW (don't want to create thread drift though) good to see you're alive and posting, been wondering about you after what seems a lengthy dry spell.

[Lenny Eiger]

Lots of advice but no answers. Well, one.

There are no answers.

How many of us know when we have taken a great image? What about the next image? If you think it might be any good, would you trust your intuition on which holder would double-expose it? You simply have to develop all the film, and load new stuff for another day. So you wasted a few sheets. How many mediocre images have you taken - like all of us - isn't that wasted film as well. It's all part of the process....

Lenny

[Kimberly Anderson]

Process your film. Learn your lesson. Suck it up. Start again.

I write on the film holder processing instructions and location information for EVERY shot. I erase the writing when I clean the holder. Are you only shooting Normals? How do you know what holders have particular processing information?

[lenser]

This is no help to you now, but I always remove the dark slide, and unless it is fairly windy, I reverse it and then partially re-insert it into the holder frame. That solves three potential problems, it blocks any possible light from entering the holder through the light trap, and it means that I always have the slide ready to shove in with the exposed side out, and two, if there is a light breeze, I can see it happening on the dark slide and wait until that subsides, knowing that then I don't have a camera that is moving due to the wind. Of course, if it's a heavy breeze, I abandon that method and hold the dark slide over the light trap to block any stray light entering. At that point I pay particular attention to which side is out when I put it back in. (Way too many times that I've goofed that up.) As others have stated, make notes on each shot including the holder number and side A or B for both the added assurance that a particular side is exposed and for processing data.

[BetterSense]

Partially-reinserting the darkslide makes me cringe. In my experience, that INCREASES the chances of a light leak, rather than decreasing it. Also, it's too easy to stick it in too far and cut off some of the image. And third, the dark-cloth should be draped over the camera back and darkslide; hard to do that with the darkslide sticking out. Fourth, you spun the wind-catching properties of an extended darkslide as a feature, but i prefer to use something not attached to the camera to monitor the breeze. My bellows are enough of a sail. Fifth, I often use the darkslide either as a shutter or as a sun-shade.

[Gary L. Quay]

I number all of my film holders and keep an exposure record. If I have any question about whether something was shot, I refer to my record. If you haven't tracked it, there is no way to know if the darkslides haven't been flipped.

--Gary

[Graham Patterson]

All my darkslides are numbered. My default film is Delta 100 but I may have Ortho or HP5 in play, so the film type is penciled in as well. Holder start with the darkslide up in plastic bags. When both sheets have been exposed (odd number side first) the holder goes in the bag upside down. This makes it easier to tell by feel which holders are fresh. Notes go in the bag. In the darkroom empty slides are stored with the base flaps out inside the bags. Never put empty holders in the ready use bag...you only have to take them into the darkroom to check for film 8-)

I also keep a 6x9 roll film back around - better that than giving up on the day.

[lenser]

Partially-reinserting the darkslide makes me cringe. In my experience, that INCREASES the chances of a light leak, rather than decreasing it. Also, it's too easy to stick it in too far and cut off some of the image. And third, the dark-cloth should be draped over the camera back and darkslide; hard to do that with the darkslide sticking out. Fourth, you spun the wind-catching properties of an extended darkslide as a feature, but i prefer to use something not attached to the camera to monitor the breeze. My bellows are enough of a sail. Fifth, I often use the darkslide either as a shutter or as a sun-shade.

All of your statements are noted and respected, but I simply don't agree. First, I've had leaks happen with the slides out, but never with them in. A few of my holders have a slight bow to the trap opening which looks like a sure fire invitation for a leak and that's what got me started doing things this way.

Second, I totally agree, but that is just a matter of paying attention.

Third, while I agree in principle, I find the dark cloth over the back to be a burden to deal with in handling the holders and slide in/slide out operations (kind of like the changing bag versus tent debate) and a total invitation for the least breeze to jar the camera due to the greatly increased surface area.

Fourth, I want to see what's happening to the camera surfaces, not something even a few feet away which may not be getting the same breeze.

And fifth, I could not agree more, but I always have an extra dark slide or two in my bag which I use for those purposes as well as for back ups if one should be damaged.

[William McEwen]

For me, the only answer is to develop all exposed and possibly exposed negatives. I've been using large format for 30 years, and I still accidentally put the slide back in with the white side out - maybe once every five or so years. It happens.

[welly]

Lots of advice but no answers. Well, one.

I didn't see an answer in your comment either.

[Leigh]

Any tips to share about managing multiple holders? Do you use more than one safeguard?
It's pretty simple, really.

Just put exposed holders in the pouch upside down.

As others have mentioned, number all holders and always use them in sequence.

These are pretty basic protocols.

As for "the film holder nightmare we all dread", I've never experienced any similar problem in 58 years of shooting.

- Leigh

[Kirk Fry]

Answer to original question. You are hosed. Time to go home with six exposures. Develop all and be happy. How could anyone make a decent exposure not knowing whether it was going to be one of the double exposures? K

[Brian Ellis]

If that happened to me, which fortunately it never has, I'd pack up and go home. Better to have three photographs than none.

In addition to all the usual precautions, I keep holders in zip lock bags. If neither sheet in the holder has been exposed I keep the holder right-side up in the bag. If there's at least one exposed sheet in the holder I keep the holder upside down in the bag.

[C_Remington]

I didn't see an answer in your comment either.

So what.

[redrockcoulee]

On world pinhole day my wife put the dark slide in the wrong way after exposing her shot however she noticed as soon as she was going to put the holder away. As the other side was already exposed she simply was able to replace the holder into the pinhole camera and reverse the darkslide. Lesson learnt perhaps :)

The take away lesson I get from this thread is that a system works. What the system is is less important then that it is a system and that you follow it. My problem is usually not knowing if the holder is loaded or not, in fact I was planning on going into the darkroom tonight and check on 4 holders. As I keep them in plastic bags, the idea of placing unloaded ones in the opposite direction as loaded ones (exposed or unexposed) is not going to be part of my system.

Finally learnt something today so I can now call it quits for the day

[Leigh]

What the system is is less important then that it is a system and that you follow it.
Absolutely correct.


My problem is usually not knowing if the holder is loaded or not
I have a simple rule...
No empty holders outside the darkroom.

That way there's never a question.

- Leigh

[welly]

So what.

So you're quick to criticise and slow/rare to offer a solution, I've noticed..

[Heroique]

I'll bet you remember to reverse the dark slides next time. ;)

My mother always said I was a quick learner.

When this actually happened to me, the numbers were a little easier to deal with than the “nightmare” in post #1. I exposed two sheets in a holder during my first session, and put it back in a bag w/ several unexposed holders – I recall eight or ten. This was the first day of my trip, when I was new to our game. What I decided to do – after much wailing & gnashing of teeth – was to go ahead and expose all holders, as if I were just starting, knowing two pieces of film (and four shots) would be lost. I consoled myself knowing the first two shots weren’t that special. And yes, from this horrifying moment, I started numbering the holders, and taking notes. It’s part of my religion now. When back home, the two double exposures weren’t interesting enough to keep. Too bad. But my favorite shots ended up on the other pieces of film. One of these shots I exposed w/ two different holders, just to make sure I got at least one. What a mental distraction this was, all trip long. And what nightmares it causes to this day. ;^)

Some good lessons in the replies so far that hadn’t occurred to me...

[Doremus Scudder]

There seems to be a common method to avoid such snafus:


I have always,for decades that is, had multiple holders ... They have always been numbered 1 thru whatever the number is of that size. ... in addition, I always keep a notebook of the date and the beginning holder # for the first shot, even if I start with say #7. The 4x5's always had the white strip like yours where you could sharpie the # in the corner. ... AND KEEP NOTES for development of that #'d piece of film...( I do feel a notebook is your best friend )


'nuf said in favor of always carrying field notebook and using it. Holders numbered + exposure notes for each image.


I carry a field notebook and all my holders are numbered. I have always practiced this, so this has never been a problem for me. I'm very much into careful planning, thankfully. I urge everyone also to do the same. Carry a notebook and number your holders.


The things that I do:
1) All of my holders are numbered, both sides. Also I have notches cut in the holder that provides an identifying mark on negative.
2) I always expose the odd numbered side of the holder first. That way if I find a reversed darkslide on an even number, I assume that the odd side has been exposed even if the darkslide has not been reversed.
3) Always reverse darkslide.
4) I keep notes on all negatives, so this is also a check on which holders have been exposed.
...


I number all of my film holders and keep an exposure record. If I have any question about whether something was shot, I refer to my record. If you haven't tracked it, there is no way to know if the darkslides haven't been flipped.


All my darkslides are numbered. ... the film type is penciled in as well. Holders start with the darkslide up in plastic bags. When both sheets have been exposed (odd number side first) the holder goes in the bag upside down. This makes it easier to tell by feel which holders are fresh. Notes go in the bag. In the darkroom empty slides are stored with the base flaps out inside the bags. Never put empty holders in the ready use bag...you only have to take them into the darkroom to check for film 8-) ...


It's pretty simple, really. Just put exposed holders in the pouch upside down. As others have mentioned, number all holders and always use them in sequence. These are pretty basic protocols. ...

So, while we have no "answers" to your current dilemma (which was rhetorical anyway, wasn't it?), there seems to be consensus about how to avoid the situation. BTW, I do all of the above, always, but lately wasted an exposed sheet of film by inadvertently pulling the darkslide while unloading the bag, so lets add "turn the slide locks to locked position after every exposure" to the above.

Best,

Doremus

[C_Remington]

So you're quick to criticise and slow/rare to offer a solution, I've noticed..

I didn't have a solution. So I didn't post. Until I noticed what I did.

[Gudmundur Ingolfsson]

The worst film holder nightmare and the stupidest too was in the old days when you went out to shoot a commercial job on sheet film and asked your assistant to clean the holders turn the dak slides and load them with film. Mine did the cleaning and the turning of the dark slides but skipped the loading. I drove 50 miles and spent a day shooting twenty some frames with no film. The client had a freaky grin on his face when I tried to explain. Ever since I load my holders myself.

[E. von Hoegh]

Most of us have awakened from the following nightmare in a cold, heavy sweat.

Some of us (like me) have actually suffered the experience:

You bring 7 loaded film holders, all identical, to a remote location. You’re there for a long weekend. No extra film, no film stores. Your first session, you take out 3 holders & expose all six shots. Everything goes perfectly. You put the holders back in the bag, no particular order. Hours later, your next session, you realize you didn’t reverse the darkslides for the 3 holders you used – nor did you indicate in any other way which ones they might be.

All you know is that you have 3 holders w/ six exposed sheets, and 4 holders w/ eight unexposed sheets – all mixed together. :(

After screams and curses, what’s your best strategy?

Any tips to share about managing multiple holders? Do you use more than one safeguard?

I've yet to experience that scenario.

For 8x10, I have 8 holders, and the most I have hiked with is four. The holders are numbered, and notched inside to transfer the number to the film sheet. As I expose the sheets, I log the scene and exposure details. The darkslides are marked "Exposed" on one side, black paint on the other. Never had a problem knowing what is exposed or not.

I use a similar system with 4x5, and when hiking I use a Grafmatic quite a bit.

If one approaches this methodically and consistently, there's no reason to undergo confusion.

[Jerry Bodine]

The worst film holder nightmare and the stupidest too was in the old days when you went out to shoot a commercial job on sheet film and asked your assistant to clean the holders turn the dak slides and load them with film. Mine did the cleaning and the turning of the dark slides but skipped the loading. I drove 50 miles and spent a day shooting twenty some frames with no film. The client had a freaky grin on his face when I tried to explain. Ever since I load my holders myself.

I think it was in one of Ansel's biographies that he mentioned handing a holder to an assistant and telling him/her that it gets a certain development. But he also kept meticulous notes. Presumably the assistant never screwed up.

[Bernice Loui]

A possible culprit for this is the newer style dark slide that has the white edged/ black inside plastic handle.

As a visual aid to which side is white/unexposed -vs- black/exposed, tap the white plastic edge with black tape. This prevents the visual confusion of which is really white -vs- black.

Adding a small bit of colored tape on the white/unexposed side of the dark slide handle with film information, then a different color tape (usually darker) with the holder number and "EXPOSED" can also help.


On the older style dark slides with the crimped on metal handles, one side is painted black and the other bare aluminum silver color appears less prone to this problem than the newer plastic handle dark slides.

A small piece of aluminum or copper foil tape can be put on the edge of the film holder and numbered using a fine point sharpie marker for further identification of each film holder. Color dots on the film holder edge works well too.

Keep film holders with unexposed film in a zip lock plastic bag marked "unexposed". Then use another plastic bag for exposed film holders marked "exposed". Colored bags add to identification of which is which. Keep track of this while working. Spend the time to manage film holders as this is the core of your work and what much of image making is all about.

Do carry more than a few loaded spare film holders if possible.


Bernice




Most of us have awakened from the following nightmare in a cold, heavy sweat.

Some of us (like me) have actually suffered the experience:

You bring 7 loaded film holders, all identical, to a remote location. You’re there for a long weekend. No extra film, no film stores. Your first session, you take out 3 holders & expose all six shots. Everything goes perfectly. You put the holders back in the bag, no particular order. Hours later, your next session, you realize you didn’t reverse the darkslides for the 3 holders you used – nor did you indicate in any other way which ones they might be.

All you know is that you have 3 holders w/ six exposed sheets, and 4 holders w/ eight unexposed sheets – all mixed together. :(

After screams and curses, what’s your best strategy?

Any tips to share about managing multiple holders? Do you use more than one safeguard?

[ROL]

Most of us have awakened from the following nightmare in a cold, heavy sweat.

Some of us (like me) have actually suffered the experience:

That's (those are) a helluva presumption. If you can't sleep at night, you either need more exercise and/or better meds.


Any tips to share about managing multiple holders? Do you use more than one safeguard?

Occasionally, I have failed to reverse a slide, primarily in the heat of battle during the first shot of the trip. Any confusion is entirely avoided by numbering your holders and then immediately recording the shot in your notebook (i.e., developing notes, etc.).

[Jim C.]

All you know is that you have 3 holders w/ six exposed sheets, and 4 holders w/ eight unexposed sheets – all mixed together. :(

After screams and curses, what’s your best strategy?

Any tips to share about managing multiple holders? Do you use more than one safeguard?

I use a Delta light tight bag marked to hold the exposed film holders, takes up no space,
so if I forget to flip the darkslide I know that the one's in the bag are exposed.

[Dave Tolcher]

Elastic or rubber bands work pretty well. Put one on when first exposed, second when both.

[Vaughn]

Unfortunately, numbering the holders did not help me on a trip to Yosemite. Loaded up 16 8x10 film holders, drove the 400+ miles to Yosemite -- only to discover I left all the holders and extra film in my living room.

So it goes!

Vaughn

[Heroique]

Unfortunately, numbering the holders did not help me on a trip to Yosemite. Loaded up 16 8x10 film holders, drove the 400+ miles to Yosemite – only to discover I left all the holders and extra film in my living room.

Nightmare in Yosemite.

At least your film survived for another trip.

Hope you brought your sketch pad.

-----
I once wrote #6 in my field notes for two successive shots – not #6 then #7.

So I used the same holder, same side, for two shots.

I’ve also skipped a number in my notes – got an unexposed sheet in the development tray.

[jnantz]

sorry for your troubles.
i've never been in your situation, but if i was
i wouldn't sweat it, i'd just pull from the back
expose normally and after you finish all the film
ready to process you can see if you made some nice double exposures.
sometimes double exposures ( unintended ) can give great results !

have fun
john

[Kuzano]

Sounds bit like the "How do I pick a pair of socks from the dresser, when I don't want to turn on the lights and wake my SO".

The simple solution.......

Never buy anything but black or brown socks in the same tones of black/brown. When you go to the dresser in the dark, just grab three socks. You will always leave the room and enter the light with ONE pair.

I side with the "shoot em all crowd". you'll go home with 8 good and 6 double exposed, based on doing everything right.

AND this time, turn the dark slides when you go through them again... Heaven knows you don't want to have to shoot them all again a third time.

It's supposed to work, but it's amazing how I can often be found out and about with mismatched socks?????

[Peter Gomena]

I usually write some kind of notation in pencil on the white strip on each holder as I expose them. (N, +, -, etc.) I keep my holders in ziploc bags. Exposed holders go back into my camera bag with the ziploc opening pointing down. I still screw up on occasion, but it's pretty rare.

[Peter Gomena]

For my old WP holders that have no white strips, I keep a roll of blue painter's tape in my bag. I put a piece of tape on each dark slide after I've exposed it, usually with some kind of notation. They, too, go into ziploc bags.

[Vaughn]

Nightmare in Yosemite.

At least your film survived for another trip.

Hope you brought your sketch pad

No -- I was also visiting a friend who lived in Yosemite Valley and he lent me his Mamiya press camera

http://camerapedia.wikia.com/wiki/Mamiya_Press

with a 6x7 and 6x9 roll backs, and I had a blast photographing with it -- I have made a couple 6x7 carbon prints from the negs. When life gives you lemons, and you don't have any sugar, one might as well pucker up and enjoy it all!

In 35 years of LF, I think I have come close to making all the possible errors. Making incredible exposures with unloaded holders, one hour exposures at night while forgetting to pull the darkslide, pulling the wrong darkslide, forgetting to put the darkslide back in when removing the holder from the camera, sliding the darkslide in between the holder and the back (instead of in the holder), developing the two sheets of film from a holder -- and having one blank and the other double exposed, etc, etc, etc.

[Roger Cole]

Each of my holders is marked with a simple number on the white area, 1-22 as I have 11 holders. They are all the Fidelity Elite type with the locking slides and the number wheels too. Some people hate them but I like them. I don't care that the numbers go slightly into the image area. It is very slight and I don't crop that close, so I keep the number wheel set to match the number I've written on the outside too, so if I have a problem with fogging or such, film flatness, whatever, with one holder I can identify which one each negative or transparency was shot with.

I keep a notebook of each shot and, though I sometimes neglect to include info I later wish I had, I do at least note when I make each shot and which holder (and side of it) was used, so even if I forgot the reverse the slides, which seems the LEAST likely error to me, I'd still know which were used.

I've never done this though. Of all the possible errors I think this is one I've just never managed. Oh I've put the slide back in the wrong way, with white side out indicating unexposed, but I always noticed it right then and reversed it while in the camera.

[john_6267]

I started using Chamonix film holders recently.

I bought them because they are a very tiny bit lighter and recently I have been doing an ultralight outfit. Originally I was concerned because these film holders don't have white and black tabs on the dark slides but I have actually been less confused with the Chamonix holders than with my Fidelity holders with the tabs. On the Chamonix holders, I leave each sheet of film "unlocked"and after each exposure I put the dark slide in to the holder then lock the dark slide before taking the holder off the camera for the second exposure. No need to keep track of which side of the dark slide went in to the holder. The Chamonix dark slides are very tight "unlocked" and for the photography-by-the car I usually do, this has worked fine.

[JW Dewdney]

I'll bet you remember to reverse the dark slides next time;)


I was just going to say the same thing. Look on the bright side. You'll never make the same mistake again, Heroique. I did something similar when I was just a kid - spent an entire day hiking with a massively heavy 4x5 outfit and after I got home realized I'd grabbed the EMPTY holders. NEVER made that mistake again (knock on wood) !!

[Leszek Vogt]

I guess the horses are almost in Alaska by now on this ? I'd go with a strip of tape (and amplify Bernice's suggestion of a dot). Anyway, you could install thin strip on one side of your slide....using color of your choice (muted or whatever). When you flip the slide (after the exposure) you might want to put another thin strip, but something like orange/lime/pink color (a color that would get your attention)....which would indicate "exposed"....something that you could spot even if you have your eyes are almost shut.

Another way (also bit of a short cut) is to install the holder in the zip-lock bag and then put an instruction tape on the exterior...letting you know what's in it and how you exposed it. Not sure that I would trust the numbers....well, unless I was making super meticulous notes.

Les

[David_Senesac]

Well much about using a view camera is complicated and one had best be of a methodical mind that develops consistent habits. The following is rather detailed and reflects that. There are several scenarios to consider so this subject is not simple.

Have 24 Fidelity Elite 4x5 holders labled with a marker A thru X on the white strips. Thus one holder will have A and B another C and D etc. Have a couple of film holder carrying bags that fit as many as 8 holders for 16 sheets of film though more often I will carry 6 or 7. Don't ever bother with the letter sequence of holders within the bags so that is random. The main purpose of the letters is to be aware of what holder I am currently working with. When I load film, I place a short length of removable white tape across one top corner of slides so they cannot jostle loose in my pack. Each holder is placed inside a film bag in the same orientation so white tape is at the same end of each holder in the bag.

The holder I use Next is always the one at a specific end of the film bag. I remove the white tape and slap it temporarily onto a tripod leg then push the holder into my camera. And within a holder with two sheets, I always use the lower letter sheet first so because I need to read the letter, am aware of which holder is being currently used and if it is the lower or higher letter. After I expose a sheet, I place removable white tape back across the ends of the two slides and if the other sheet has not yet been exposed, the holder goes to the same Next end. Because the slide was flipped, it is easy to notice if one sheet of two were exposed. After both sheets in a holder have so been exposed, so black strips and dimples on the slide are on the inside, the holder goes to the other Done end of the film bag with white tape strips in reverse direction.

Occasionally just like you, I occasionally don't flip a slide when sticking it back into a holder. Sometimes that may be after exposing a sheet. If so and the first sheet in a holder, I would notice the lower letter slide wasn't flipped when it should have been, then reinsert it into my Wisner, pull out the slide, and flip it back in correctly. If not noticed I might end up with a double exposure and on rare occasions have done that. If I was working the second sheet, then after exposure, I would readily notice when putting the tape back on that the tabs on the dark slides were not at different ends with both dark strips showing.

At other times I may have abandoned a shot maybe because conditions on subject changed. In that case I would put the holder back at the Next end of the film bag with the dimples on the tab out. If it was the first slide and a long period elasped I might end up sending in an unexposed sheet and have done that in the past. If the second sheet, I would notice both slides appeared exposed yet the holder was in the Next position in the bag. If I remembered the letters of the holder I was using I will just flip the slide around. If I didn't remember, then will eat the one sheet hoping it actually might be exposed and I may have not put the holder into the correct end of the bag.

In all the above situations, at most I am going to lose just ONE sheet of film and not several.

[David_Senesac]

Ironically for this person, I am currently in pain after discovering a worse issue with mixing up film in film boxes. Something I find difficult that I actually managed to do so.

Several weeks ago I exposed 7 sheets of Provia film during one day then that evening removed the film via a dark change bag into an exposed film box while loading new film from an unexposed film box. The film was not too important. Sent that out for development. Then last week on an important 6-day road trip where I found some exceptional subjects exposed 39 sheets of film. Well when I returned and reviewed the 7 developed transparencies that had returned from the lab, they were all evenly black. After some analysis of what might have happened, it was clear I had sent in seven sheets of unexposed film. Apparently while not paying enough attention to what I was doing, I had mixed up between two film boxes inside my change bag. Of course each bag had something I could identify by feel. However that requires not getting the two touch differences mixed up. One box had exposed film I was putting exposed film from holders into while the other was new unexposed film I loaded into those same holders. Thus had loaded exposed film into a partially consumed film box. Then later on my road trip used them. Wahhhhhh!

So during my trip I double exposed 7 sheets of the 39 and won't know which shots were ruined till next week. Very distressing. In the future I will always completely unload film first with just one box inside a change bag before loading film from an unexposed box. Live and learn.

David

[macandal]

Most of us have awakened from the following nightmare in a cold, heavy sweat.

Some of us (like me) have actually suffered the experience:

[...]

After screams and curses, what’s your best strategy?

Any tips to share about managing multiple holders? Do you use more than one safeguard?Sometimes being a newbie actually helps. I've only been shooting LF (seriously) for about 3 years. I never noticed that the slides had a black and a white side (strip), and I never knew the color had a use until about a month ago when I took a workshop to learn to use the LF camera. So how did I know when I had exposed a sheet of film? I put a piece of tape on the slide where I made notations, f stop, shutter speed, date, subject, etc, and once I had exposed the sheet, I put an X on it so I could know which sheet were exposed. Even now that I know about the colors in the darkslides, I still don't use them and stick to my crude, but effective, method. Once you unload the film, you remove the tape, and, if you're going to use that holder again to make another exposure, you put a fresh piece of tape to use.

[JMO]

Mario, I am likewise a newbie, and was on a LF outing last weekend with some experienced LF photographers from my area. One of them saw how I was trying to take notes for each shot on paper forms, and also writing in pencil on the film holder strips. He showed me what I think is a better way, using strips of tape on the holders for each sheet of film, but his method seems a bit more organized and useful for long-term record-keeping than what you described. He uses gaffer tape in several different colors, one color assigned for each film type he uses, and (like you) he puts a blank piece of tape on each side of the film holder when it is loaded. He then writes everything he will need to know about the taking of that image on the piece of tape immediately after the exposure. When he gets home the films come out and are developed, and the pieces of tape with notes can be put into a log book, or maybe into a binder where the developed films for "keepers" will be stored using clear plastic sleeve holders. The gaffer's tape is writable, and it comes in various colors from a supplier like Filmtools.com (http://www.filmtools.com/adhesivetapes.html), but I'm sure there are other sources. If one likes to take more info/data than what can be wirtten onto a piece of tape that is as long as the width of your film holder, then I suppose you need a log book or some other method, but I like the way the hadwritten tape can follow the films into your storage and retrieval system. And the tape in different colors for different types of film is also simple to help avoid any confusion in the field. ...

[SergeiR]

I never noticed that the slides had a black and a white side (strip), and I never knew the color had a use until about a month ago when I took a workshop to learn to use the LF camera.

Seriously? Its described in most of youtube videos you can find on LF holders..

[macandal]

Seriously? Its described in most of youtube videos you can find on LF holders..IF you watch youtube videos about LF holders.

[Jim Noel]

I think the question is not what do others do to prevent such accidents, but what to do to salvage the trip once it happens.

I had a similar experience more than 50 years ago. My solution was to act as if none had been exposed and proceed making exposures. Obviously I had 8 double exposures, one of which was a beautiful color shot of fireworks over a river in Utah. Did I make some images I really wanted on the double exposed ones? Sure I did. But I also had other good exposures and I was happy for that rather than brooding over the mistake.

[Brian Ellis]

I do several things. I reverse the dark slide and when I return the holder that has an exposed sheet or two to the zip lock bag I put it in upside down (holders with unexposed film are right side up). I also number my holders and keep them in order. At the start of each day I begin with the lowest numbered unexposed holder and work my way up. Seems to work well.

I despise keeping notes. I did it when I started out. But it was a PITA and for me it was more trouble than was worth since I almost never referred back to my notes. Plus on several occasions I lost a photograph because the light changed as I was meticulously entering all my notes for the previous photograph. I don't say this to knock people who do keep notes, just that nobody should feel that it's something they must do or else be kicked out of the LF club.

[gleaf]

Welcome to the human condition of imperfection. Fixed on the shooting you... oops my hand was an unguided auto holder return. The situation you have is a fact not a problem. Problems may have solutions, facts do not. A fact has no solution, it is just true and can only be accommodated.
You would like it otherwise, and we do also, yet your choices are which way to suffer the minimum pain; lose the blanks or lose the exposed.
Frustration abounds.
A personal thanks for sharing your problem. I know I will do it myself and the systems to limit the occurrence are most helpful.

[Otto Seaman]

Of course I pay attention to the strips but I've made a few double exposures or processed blank film over the years....

I put exposed holders (already in their individual plastic bags) upside down into a larger plastic bag holding groups of five holders. This helps a lot.

I've tried the Gnass and the Photobackpacker film holder cases but found both to be very slow and tedious to use (The PBP case was very well made however, kudos). For someone with a very slow and meticulous personality they may be a good fit, but having to unwrap, hang, unzip, pull the Velcro tab, etc. it is just a huge pain in the butt. It may work for landscape but certainly not for portraiture.

On the other hand I've also had Grafmatics and it is almost too easy to overshoot too quickly and use up your film/waste too much money with those!

The most important thing I do is only using one type of film. I remember back in the day, trying to shoot chrome, neg, and B&W all in the same session and even in the comfort of a studio it is still hard to keep track... you pretty much need an assistant.

[Kirk Gittings]

I pop a rubber band around the exposed ones as well as reversing the DS. That both is a backup for which holders are shot and helps prevent the DS being accidentally pulled out.

[sanchi heuser]

I use this system, it's quite safe though a little extra work:

Unloaded holder = no sticker and marks
Loaded = sticker each side with film type + a green dot (means unexposed)
Loaded and exposed = add red dot or just "EXP" just after the shot (means exposed)

[rdenney]

Changed thread title to remove em dash to see if it fixes some problems users have been having.

Rick "leaving out certain special characters maybe be one thing to do to avoid nightmares" Denney

[Pat Kearns]

Rick, what you did has fixed the problem I was having with this thread. Thanks.

[ROL]

FWIW, I have to keep relearning the lesson of em dash non conformity with all web uses, especially naming file uploads. Something about them informs the weblies and sprites to derail bits along the information superhighway. Doh!

[ImSoNegative]

this has happened to me when I first started shooting, these days all my holders are numbered (they were then too but I tried to remember what I shot and what I didn't but I would forget) and I carry a small notebook and each exposure I make I write it down with any special developing I might have to use.

[Jim Galli]

Heroique, you should switch to 35mm film cameras. No, wait, then you'd be in a cold sweat all night long wondering how the counter made it to '42'. I think digital auto everything is your only hope.

[swmcl]

Hi all,

I have purchased a digital voice recorder to help me. I basically narrate the scene in front of me including all the camera setup details. With the amount of memory available in these things one can just press the 'record' button and leave it on for hours if need be although I tend to make just a short and succinct recording.

I do also number the holders and try to remember that a white darkslide means an exposure has been made. I guess that would make for two methods to ensure my data is recorded.

Rgds,

[Heroique]

Heroique, you should switch to 35mm film cameras. No, wait, then you'd be in a cold sweat all night long wondering how the counter made it to '42'. I think digital auto everything is your only hope.

That sounds worse than the original nightmare!

I'd rather share share practical insights, like my post #34.

And benefit by reading all these others.

[Ian Arthur]

Each of my dark slides are numbered. I start from number one and always shoot in pairs. When I've finished with a DS I put it back into the compartment of my camera bag the wrong way up. That's my visible indication as whether a DS has been used or is unused. I did try having a check off list on a notepad - but I either loose the pen or the notepad...!

[dikaiosune01]

I have two prevented measures that work well for me.

(1) label your film holders with permanent market sequentially. 1a and 1b (for the other side) then 2a and 2nd etc etc.
then shoot the film sequentially. So even if I forget to reverse the dark slide it know which film holder to shoot from.
(2) a piece of masking tape on each film holder. It serves two purposes. One, label what film I have in there. Two any extra exposure notations I might want to make.

My LF nightmare is when I forget to close the lens and pull the dark slide. 3 years shooting this thing and it still frustrated me. Argh!!