Recommended source for bellows and installation on a Century Studio portait camera

[lenser]

Sorry if this has already been discussed somewhere, but I don't see it in a search.


I've got a beautiful 8x10 Century Studio camera I've been working on and now that I have the wood looking gorgeous, I'm thinking about a new bellows. I've pulled the pertified black tape off the corners leaving an otherwise pretty nice looking bellows structure in that it has almost no sag, it cleaned up well and there are no tears, only small to medium corner pinholes. I am now treating those pinholes with a few layers of liquid electric tape, but the writing is on the wall for a replacement at some point in the future.

I've used Turner and New York Bellows decades ago, but they (Turner) seem to be locked into a fabric appearance on their work material now (or at least so it appears from what I've seen recently) and I'm hoping to have a more traditional look to the new bellows. I've heard great things about the folks in England but I would appreciate any input that members can offer who might have had this done, especially since I'm guessing I'll have to send the frames off for mounting. Please suggest manufacturers and your opinion of the quality, speed of return, traditional look, etc.

Also, short of experimenting with dismantling the camera (which I don't wish to do at this point), I 'm asking for some guidance on how the old bellows comes out and the new one goes in.

As always, many many thanks for the expertise.

Tim

[Harold_4074]

Tim,

At the front and back of the bellows, inside, there should be rectangular wooden frames to which the bellows is glued, stuck, or merely associated. Screws go through these frames, trapping a lip of bellows against the inside face of the standard.

I also have a Century which came with the bellows uninstalled, so I took the opportunity to measure the frames and record the dimensions. The thought was to use the existing bellows, build a set of frames, and then get a new bellows built on those frames so I could continue using the camera in the interim.

The frames are pretty unsophisticated---I would have expected finger or at least lap joints at the corners, but have been assured that the original four-sticks-with-nails-at-the-corners is perfectly adequate.

One thing to be aware of is that the screws are actually behind folds of the bellows, so you need to extend the bellows before removing or installing them. And it's dark in there. In the absence of a helper, a few scraps of wood and some woodworking clamps make it easier for you and safer for the old bellows.

I'll post the frame dimensions that I have, and anyone with better/different information is welcome to chime in.

Harold

[lenser]

Thanks, Harold. I had look at the rear frame from the inside and could not see any attachment points, so I was concerned that they might be glued in, however counter productive that seemed. I appreciate the clarification.

Did you actually have new bellows made? If so, by whom and did they look like they were made in a traditional appearance?

Thanks again.

Tim

[Harold_4074]

Tim,

I'm still using the bellows that came with the camera; I got it from forum member Eddie a few years ago, and he recommended Turner Bellows for a replacement.
The screws are something like #6 x 5/8" flat-head steel, and seemed to be blackened rather than painted (did I mention that it is dark in there? :)). I'm pretty sure that they are original as Eddie described having removed and replaced several similar bellows over the years, and didn't mention having to deal with glue.

The "original" is a heavy fabric, possibly with a very thin leather layer on the outside, My guess is that current-manufacture bellows are some polymer-coated cloth (Turner apparently made the factory bellows for most of the major lines of enlargers, and that is what they look like) so even if the vintage original was leather, the current product would probably look similar.

Someone, somewhere, currently makes red leatherette bellows, which would be the only likely alternative to black. I'm sure that there are known-original Centuries out there, so someone can probably tell you what color would be traditional for the camera you have. Functionally, of course, even Calumet gray would work just fine, as long at the stiffness and compressed/extended lengths are right.

Harold

[lenser]

Harold, Many thanks for the added info!

I've actually got two of these, one of which I have currently offered for sale on this site. It's a bit hard to tell the material on the one I'm selling because a previous owner decided to paint it red with a pretty thick application. However one of the pleats has partially come loose from the inside and it seems to be the same almost heavy paper like material that my one that I'm restoring has. When you thump either one with a finger, they almost sound like thumping a thick cardboard box. The outer surface on this one in working on is perfectly smooth, rather than grained like I would expect leather to be.

Turner did an 8x10 bellows for my Ansco Universal about thirty years ago and it is still pristine. They do a great job for sure! When I mentioned the cloth, the appearance issue I was talking about on more current bellows I've seen made is so that you could actually see a very tight weave of the fabric that was impregnated with whatever the polymer or other solution is use to bond to that fabric. It certainly makes no difference to how the camera would work, but for this one, I just hope for a very original appearance to the whole thing.

The idea of red leather is appealing as the one I'm selling actually looks good in terms of the painted on color scheme. It's a little bright in tone. Something more toward an Oxblood would probably be a more subtle match for the wood, but it still is nice.

Anyway, thanks again for the great input.

Tim

[Harold_4074]

Tim,

My Century is a 10A, badged "Century 10A Studio Camera, Made in USA by Eastman Kodak Company, Folmer and Schwing Department".

The bellows frame measurements that I recorded are: top rail width 7/8", side rail width 3/4" (both 5/16" thick); overall height 13-1/4", overall width 11-1/4 inch.

It is impossible to know if this bellows is actually original to the camera body, but the screw hole patterns on the frames and camera seemed to match: two holes 5-1/2" OC for the top and bottom, three holes 4-1/8" OC for the sides. Blackened, flat-head slotted steel screws about #6x5/8" were present when I got the camera.

There may once have been glue attaching the bellows to the frames and/or the bellows fabric to the camera, but there was no obvious evidence when I installed the bellows.

I hope that this helps,

Harold

[lenser]

Thanks once again, Harold.

That is quite helpful. I have no way of identifying which model my camera is (the one that I'm keeping) because all that is on it is a small rectangular label that says Century which is mounted within a very small brass frame. However, I suspect that within the same maximum film size bodies, they may be the same measurements, because the one that I'm selling measures the same on the outside and is a model 1. Perhaps it follows that the bellows would also be consistent throughout the model series.

Because mine had a rack and pinion focus Dallmeyer 3A on it, there is a deeply recessed internal mount for the Packard shutter that will have to come out before I try to remove the bellows, so that all may just wait until I actually decide to have the new bellows made. At the moment, I'm having a fun time applying lots of the liquid electric tape to all the corners and many of the pleats to cancel out definite light leaks and weak areas that glow through the pleats when I have a light inside. Once I've got all the leaks completely eliminated, I plan to follow up with some Kiwi liquid shoe polish designed for heels and soles in order to even out the finish on the bellows.

[Harold_4074]

Tim,

I mentioned the badge description from my camera because there seems to be a good bit of lore regarding the history of the Century cameras, and the badges correlate to the ownership of the brand and therefore (at least roughly) to the manufacture date. (Dimensional changes might or might not also correlate.)

There are others who know the history better than I, but as I understand it the original company was Century; Kodak bought the company, operated it as the Century Division of Kodak, then merged it into the Folmer and Schwing department (which would be the era of the one that I have) before divesting Folmer and Schwing for antitrust reasons. It would seem that you have one of the earlier ones, and the operative question would be whether or not the No. 1 size had different dimensions from the 10A.

In any case, the bellows frame size is relatively uncritical, and you have a bellows (with frames) that fits, so there shouldn't be much of a problem replacing it.

Harold

[Tin Can]

I have a grey painted Ansco 8X10 studio camera with a grey painted Semi-Centennial stand. I have only seen pictures of other cameras of this type, but they all seem to be the same. My bellows are fine and do thump like cardboard.

I only use it for studio portraits and I find I prefer this camera and particularly the Semi-Centennial stand to the far more expensive and modern 8x10 setups.

This one has only Ansco tags on the camera front and stand, the stand does add it was made Binghamton, New York. Mine does not have finial caps, like others I see, and that deletion led to the glued up posts splitting. I pulled it back together with galvanized lag screws in an attempt to match the worn finish. It works fine.

Are all these cameras actually the same, with minor differences in finish and accessories?

[lenser]

Randy, I've seen finial caps of many kinds at most hardware stores and farm supply places. Whether or not they are the correct size, I don't know, but it might be worth checking out for you.

My stand is an earlier model that is basically a tiltable table top that can be cranked up and down.

[Tin Can]

I have been looking for finials, but nothing fits yet. It works great, it is easier to move and more stable that a Arkay 9 foot post model stand I have.

I figure the finials were an improvement to control the glue split. Only I see the problems.

I need to control my urge to strip the paint off, it has already come off wherever there is a finger joint on the camera.

I do find sitters prefer the ancient cameras over, say, a 8x10 Horseman, even though I use the same lens...

I made a Horseman lensboard adapter for the Ansco lensboard, that fits most of my lenses.




Randy, I've seen finial caps of many kinds at most hardware stores and farm supply places. Whether or not they are the correct size, I don't know, but it might be worth checking out for you.

My stand is an earlier model that is basically a tiltable table top that can be cranked up and down.

[lenser]

Randy,

I don't know if they have what you need, but this company offers several styles (materials) in varying sizes plus they solicit questions about sizing options.

www.bevoworks.com/post-caps-c-70.html‎

[Tin Can]

They have the usual 4" caps.

I need 3" caps, but not really.

Thanks!


Randy,

I don't know if they have what you need, but this company offers several styles (materials) in varying sizes plus they solicit questions about sizing options.

www.bevoworks.com/post-caps-c-70.html‎

[AtlantaTerry]

There is a fellow on eBay who makes new bellows for just about any view camera.

[Mark Paschke]

Not sure if you found your bellows but I just made my own after checking in to other options, they were really cheap and easy to make to my surprise. I show how I did it starting towards bottom of page 1 of this thread
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?69150-Restoration-of-Century-Grand-Studio-Opinions-welcome!

[Mark Paschke]

Oh and this thread had a lot of advice as well when trying to determine the cloth, I ended up using "Duck Cloth" on the outside and it worked very nice, I can't remember what I used as the blackout cloth inside but maybe duvatayne or maybe I went cheap and used very thin black felt regardless, I remember these being very easy to make , just a little monotonous cutting and gluing stiffeners but the end effect was very rewarding http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?67879-What-s-the-best-available-bellows-fabric

Edit- I went back and found I used drapery blackout cloth INSIDE which was white and then covered that with black speaker grill cloth but honestly I don't think the blackout cloth was needed because of the coats of spray adhesive, if I were to do it again I wold probably use just duck cloth, spray adhesive, stiffeners, spray adhesive then electrical tape the inside seems on dried 77 spray adhesive, no light is penetrating that combo

[Gundlach]

I have a grey painted Ansco 8X10 studio camera with a grey painted Semi-Centennial stand. I have only seen pictures of other cameras of this type, but they all seem to be the same.

Your grey painted model is actually the upscale model of the Ansco #5 studio camera. Believe it or not the grey paint cost more than the varnished model.

I own the varnished model. I am the second owner. The first owner purchased it new in 1946.

G

[Tin Can]

I read the upscale grey paint was a 20% premium.

I have now become used to it's worn appearance and will not 'improve' it. I found an 8x10 varnished wood back to replace the 5x7 grey one and I am most happy with my bellows since I carefully cleaned them, they actually gleam.



Your grey painted model is actually the upscale model of the Ansco #5 studio camera. Believe it or not the grey paint cost more than the varnished model.

I own the varnished model. I am the second owner. The first owner purchased it new in 1946.

G

[big_ben_blue]

I read the upscale grey paint was a 20% premium.

I have now become used to it's worn appearance and will not 'improve' it. I found an 8x10 varnished wood back to replace the 5x7 grey one and I am most happy with my bellows since I carefully cleaned them, they actually gleam.
If you go through the Ansco/Agfa catalogs on the cameraexcentrics (sp?) site, you'll notice that they charged a whole lot more than just 20% premium for gray paint. The company execs probably laughed all the way to the bank, because they not only got to charge extra for ugly surplus "deluxe" paint, but they had also found a way to use all the substandard only-good-for-kindling wood underneath without anyone noticing. How do I know? Well, I was stupid enough to strip one of the gray Ansco stands for giving it a nice natural finish. Had to quickly abandon that idea after seeing what lurked underneath all that thick paint :-( . The wood looked like it came straight from recycled shipping pallets.

[Tin Can]

Good to know!

My camera and stand paint is very thin and peeling.

I waxed it all to try and keep it the way it is.

The steel corner supports were all rusty and I put rust converter on them which stopped the rust and turned them black.

Funny, the bellows are great.



If you go through the Ansco/Agfa catalogs on the cameraexcentrics (sp?) site, you'll notice that they charged a whole lot more than just 20% premium for gray paint. The company execs probably laughed all the way to the bank, because they not only got to charge extra for ugly surplus "deluxe" paint, but they had also found a way to use all the substandard only-good-for-kindling wood underneath without anyone noticing. How do I know? Well, I was stupid enough to strip one of the gray Ansco stands for giving it a nice natural finish. Had to quickly abandon that idea after seeing what lurked underneath all that thick paint :-( . The wood looked like it came straight from recycled shipping pallets.

[Gundlach]

Randy, did you just purchase that varnished 8x10 back on ebay about a month ago?

[Gundlach]

If you go through the Ansco/Agfa catalogs on the cameraexcentrics (sp?) site, you'll notice that they charged a whole lot more than just 20% premium for gray paint. The company execs probably laughed all the way to the bank, because they not only got to charge extra for ugly surplus "deluxe" paint, but they had also found a way to use all the substandard only-good-for-kindling wood underneath without anyone noticing. How do I know? Well, I was stupid enough to strip one of the gray Ansco stands for giving it a nice natural finish. Had to quickly abandon that idea after seeing what lurked underneath all that thick paint :-( . The wood looked like it came straight from recycled shipping pallets.


Well they did offer to nickle plate the hardware and provide a red leather bellows ;) My Catalog from 1958 show the price as $193.00 Varnished and $325.00 Painted.

[Tin Can]

No, more like 9 months ago and not eBay, I think APUG. It has no name on it and I bought by comparing exact dimensions. It is in VGC condition. I did need to put a new GG, I think it was missing. I forget things.



Randy, did you just purchase that varnished 8x10 back on ebay about a month ago?

[Gundlach]

Real Ansco backs are hard to find, I have a grey one. I bid on a varnished Ansco back and lost.

[Tin Can]

Now, I remember. It was eBay about 9 months ago. It was a an unconsummated sale where the 'winner' did not pay and I was offered second chance. I got it for 20% under the non-paid sale price.

Notice the 2 silver spots on the stand uprights, which are galvanized lag bolts I put them in to draw the split wood of the stand uprights back together. The glue had failed and the 2 pieces were warping apart. I used new galvanized lag bolts with washers to match age and patina.

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