Shooting Kodak anti-Halo Ortho plates NOS LOL

[Tin Can]

I bought, no, 'won' eBay Kodak ANTI_HALO Orthochromatic Tropical Plates in an open box. $18.00 delivered. It is a nice box. I have bought even dumber things.

I opened the box under red LED and determined there was four 1/4 Plate glass still wrapped up, inside the double box.

Maybe it's not light struck...

Any advice on exposure?

Developing?

How old is this?

The back is ink stamped H028C19 12T

95056

[jcoldslabs]

I've shot quite a bit of film that expired in the 1940s and have settled on a testing EI of 6. This works out most of the time. It's as though that's where the sensitivity finally settles after losing all the "juice" it once had.

I usually develop in HC-110 1:19 for about three to four minutes, and I keep the developer temp at around 60°F. This helps reduce fog. The longer it's in the developer the worse the fog gets.

I assume plates would be about the same as film, but you never know. You could always develop by inspection since they are orthochromatic, but I've never done that.

Good luck!

Jonathan

[Tin Can]

Thanks for the advice. I was going use EI 10, but may as well go to 6. I just got 2 plates loaded. They did not fit my NOS Graflex made 3-1/4x4-1/4 holders by about 1/16th in length. I was going to use a Speed Graphic 3x4, but I recently got a 1/4 plate Zeiss Trona with a couple holders that the plates did fit.

I use Rodinal and I will make it cool and quick, perhaps 1/25 for 3 minutes at 60F. Unless you have better advice.

I don't have...I was going to write, but I do have hangers, so I am going to sleep on it and try to get it to work. The Trona has shutter timer issues, so I have that also also. It will be me counting.

I have never felt or seen glass plates and I was trying in full dark to feel the emulsion. I got it right, when I checked one under safelight.

I will post results good or bad here, hopefully tomorrow.

Thanks!



I've shot quite a bit of film that expired in the 1940s and have settled on a testing EI of 6. This works out most of the time. It's as though that's where the sensitivity finally settles after losing all the "juice" it once had.

I usually develop in HC-110 1:19 for about three to four minutes, and I keep the developer temp at around 60°F. This helps reduce fog. The longer it's in the developer the worse the fog gets.

I assume plates would be about the same as film, but you never know. You could always develop by inspection since they are orthochromatic, but I've never done that.

Good luck!

Jonathan

[jcoldslabs]

Can't wait to see the results. I think it should work just fine with Rodinal. I've had decent luck with really old film, for the most part. Here's an example I shot earlier this year with old 8x10 Dupont Defender "X-F Pan" film that expired in the 1940s. Some of the emulsion flaked off during processing, but overall it looks good for its age, wrinkles and all!


http://www.kolstad.us/ebay/8x10-X-F-Pan-Garage.jpg

Jonathan

[Tin Can]

I will try to be good photog tomorrow, it is going to 85F for the first time in 7 months, Chicago will go crazy.

I live near shooting with guns area, I expect 20 gun casualties in the next 24 hours...

Sad, but reality.






Can't wait to see the results. I think it should work just fine with Rodinal. I've had decent luck with really old film, for the most part. Here's an example I shot earlier this year with old 8x10 Dupont Defender "X-F Pan" film that expired in the 1940s. Some of the emulsion flaked off during processing, but overall it looks good for its age, wrinkles and all!




Jonathan

[sun of sand]

after testing I found the speed of some old early 70's or older versapan to be about 15
late 70s tri-x 30-40
73 plus-x 20-30
but this gives you all the fog it has ..and in case of this versapan horrible mottling.

I shoot it all at 6 ..or 10 if i want more film speed lol

I develop it mostly in Rodinal at 1:20 at 68 for somewhere near 15 minutes constant agitation
to the developer I add 7-10ml per 500oz orthazite anti-fog which is more than 2% concentration and 3-6ml pot bromide 10%


you'd be amazed at the amount of fog/mottling you can reduce
nasty gross rebates to nearly clear-ish
Versapan unsuitable for even "fun" pictures so much mottling to nearly perfect skies on most sheets

I figure overexpose 2 stops or more then retard development with that amount of restrainer
come out with well exposed negatives and much less fog


I'll attach pics
top negative is less restrainer
right is more
left is final amount of restrainer

full image is a lumen print and I see no faults in the nagative in the sky at contact print size. I'll enlarge it and see how bad it gets

[sun of sand]

I've read that glass plate emulsions age better
who knows

[jnantz]

don't forget to use coldish chemistry and put HARDENER in the fixer ...
i used to think hardener was for the birds, but it helps a lot with glass plates of all types.

have fun!
john

[Tin Can]

Well, I don't have hardener, YET! Next week, could not wait.

Shot one at ISO 5 f22-8 seconds. R09 1/25 3 min 60F and I have bits of purple antihalation in every tank after very gentle process and gentle wash on a hanger. Now drying. I decided to let it dry with the purple bits, which look like cellulose.

I have a bit of image.

Scan will be posted later tonight.



don't forget to use coldish chemistry and put HARDENER in the fixer ...
i used to think hardener was for the birds, but it helps a lot with glass plates of all types.

have fun!
john

[Tin Can]

This is it. Heavy curve in PS.

any advice is welcome!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7292/8745161302_45e7ff6144_c.jpg

[jcoldslabs]

Randy,

Looks like it could have used more exposure. The way I see it, you need to give enough exposure to blast through all the fog, which in essence is grossly overexposing the film, and then pull the development enough to compensate and not increase the base fog, if possible. Figuring out what exposure/development combo works best is always a trial and error process. I usually have to make heavy use of curves in PS, too, to bring the image into relief.

At least you got an image, though! And you've got more plates to play with.

Jonathan

[Tin Can]

Any ideas how to wash off the anti-halo?


Randy,

Looks like it could have used more exposure. The way I see it, you need to give enough exposure to blast through all the fog, which in essence is grossly overexposing the film, and then pull the development enough to compensate and not increase the base fog, if possible. Figuring out what exposure/development combo works best is always a trial and error process. I usually have to make heavy use of curves in PS, too, to bring the image into relief.

At least you got an image, though! And you've got more plates to play with.

Jonathan

[jcoldslabs]

Not sure about the anti-halo. With film all it takes is a good long wash to remove it. I suppose if it is on the back of the plate you could scrub or wipe it off since it won't affect the emulsion side?

I have a box of NOS 8x10 Kodak plates from the 1940s I keep meaning to shoot. Your result here is making me want to give them a try.

Jonathan

[Tin Can]

In the meantime, how about a shot of the Kodak box!

I may shoot another tomorrow. Maybe daylight...

Now that I know how to mis-load and screw up the darkslide, I feel better about full daylight, I wish the plates had fit the Graflex holders. That camera has a perfect shutter. Or I will use studio flash...

Maybe I will try 3 more stops of exposure, really get out there.

LOL

I'm having fun, and that's all that matters to me. Selfish old man me...



Not sure about the anti-halo. With film all it takes is a good long wash to remove it. I suppose if it is on the back of the plate you could scrub or wipe it off since it won't affect the emulsion side?

I have a box of NOS 8x10 Kodak plates from the 1940s I keep meaning to shoot. Your result here is making me want to give them a try.

Jonathan

[jcoldslabs]

I'm having fun, and that's all that matters to me.

That's my attitude exactly! I'll see if I can't get a shot of the Kodak 8x10 plate box and post it up shortly.

J.

[jnantz]

Randy,

Looks like it could have used more exposure. The way I see it, you need to give enough exposure to blast through all the fog, which in essence is grossly overexposing the film, and then pull the development enough to compensate and not increase the base fog, if possible. Figuring out what exposure/development combo works best is always a trial and error process. I usually have to make heavy use of curves in PS, too, to bring the image into relief.

At least you got an image, though! And you've got more plates to play with.

Jonathan


its funny jonathan

that is exactly the opposite of the way they used to suggest exposing plates when they were new.
it was suggested to expose mildly and develop in a strong developer like crazy, sometimes for 20+ minutes
agitating &c. i sometimes do that with hand coated dry plates but my results are less than optimum ;).
but at least my emulsion doesn't float off the plate anymore when it goes into the fix LOL

[Tin Can]

Let's think about this.

That would be my first thought, light exposure and long dev time.

It would at least soak off the anti-halo.

We need a couple more votes.

any lurkers want to chime in?




its funny jonathan

that is exactly the opposite of the way they used to suggest exposing plates when they were new.
it was suggested to expose mildly and develop in a strong developer like crazy, sometimes for 20+ minutes
agitating &c. i sometimes do that with hand coated dry plates but my results are less than optimum ;).
but at least my emulsion doesn't float off the plate anymore when it goes into the fix LOL

[jcoldslabs]

I'm certainly no expert on old plates. With old film I've had success with the method I described. For example, the 8x10 shot I posted above was exposed at EI 6 and processed in HC-110 1:19 in a rotary drum for four minutes at 60°F.

If there are better methods to try, I'm all ears since I have quite a bit of film (and some plates) from the 40s and 50s in my stash.

J.

[Tin Can]

Hey, you got me this far.

This is obviously unknown territory. I was pretty surprised I got anything at all.

I am going to try more exposure, weaker R09 and longer dev. I hope to lose the anti-halo in the developer tank.

Maybe

Thanks!

I'm certainly no expert on old plates. With old film I've had success with the method I described. For example, the 8x10 shot I posted above was exposed at EI 6 and processed in HC-110 1:19 in a rotary drum for four minutes at 60°F.

If there are better methods to try, I'm all ears since I have quite a bit of film (and some plates) from the 40s and 50s in my stash.

J.

[Tin Can]

This was shot at the same time with efke 100 3x4 film same camera.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8254/8745765779_8740173b84_c.jpg

[jcoldslabs]

Well, if you try more exposure with weaker developer next time at least you can provide us with a real world comparison between the two approaches.

By the way, here is the box of Kodak 8x10 plates that I have yet to shoot:


http://www.kolstad.us/ebay/Kodak-8x10-Plates.jpg

Jonathan

[Tin Can]

Thats looks newer than my box, by a few decades. I was just over at Surplus Shed and they have 9.5" Agfa new 10 packs of glass plates for $39. I was also going to order a plastic GG 14.5" sq but the Chrome browser warned their site was not secure. 1st time I have seen that warning, so I did not order. :(





Well, if you try more exposure with weaker developer next time at least you can provide us with a real world comparison between the two approaches.

By the way, here is the box of Kodak 8x10 plates that I have yet to shoot:


http://www.kolstad.us/ebay/Kodak-8x10-Plates.jpg

Jonathan

[jcoldslabs]

Yeah, the box isn't dated (or the date rubbed off), but these are probably from the 1950s, now that I think about it. I might have a box of 5x7 plates that are older. Not sure.

As for Surplus Shed, I don't know why your browser gave you that warning. I've ordered from them multiple times with no problems.

J.

[Tin Can]

https is crossed out


Yeah, the box isn't dated (or the date rubbed off), but these are probably from the 1950s, now that I think about it. I might have a box of 5x7 plates that are older. Not sure.

As for Surplus Shed, I don't know why your browser gave you that warning. I've ordered from them multiple times with no problems.

J.

[jcoldslabs]

Hmmm. Weird. I use Firefox, so I don't know anything about Chrome.

J.

[Tin Can]

now i made an account and clicked PayPal and i never got sent to PalPay as is usual and they concluded the sale as paid!

I did not order the glass plates, I don't need more projects. I am converting a Levy Process camera to 11X14 1 to 1 portrait camera.



Hmmm. Weird. I use Firefox, so I don't know anything about Chrome.

J.

[jcoldslabs]

I need more projects like a hole in the head myself. I've got three 8x10 cameras in my garage in various states of disrepair. I keep telling myself I'll renovate one for wet plate, one for long lenses, one for ________. Really, I should just sell it all and focus on the cameras I already use the most. But I'm a pack rat and half-crazy with plans for the future. Woe be my heirs who have to sort through all this crap when I'm dead!

Jonathan

[Tin Can]

LOL

I am exactly the same. I used to have piles of motorcycles, but I sold almost all of them and now I am buried in cameras. Who cares, I am single, retired and need to keep busy.

I am building my dream darkroom. I think I am the only one collecting enlargers...



I need more projects like a hole in the head myself. I've got three 8x10 cameras in my garage in various states of disrepair. I keep telling myself I'll renovate one for wet plate, one for long lenses, one for ________. Really, I should just sell it all and focus on the cameras I already use the most. But I'm a pack rat and half-crazy with plans for the future. Woe be my heirs who have to sort through all this crap when I'm dead!

Jonathan

[jcoldslabs]

Oh, I've got FOUR enlargers at the moment--scratch that, FIVE--and no darkroom. I'll get there some day, right around the time Ilford goes under and there's no more photo paper to be had.

J.

[Tin Can]

I won't say how many enlargers, but it's more.

We can make paper, and I have several hundred pounds of old Agfa I have not yet tried.

Tonight I could not pass on a real nice contact printer. At least it's small.

I have always been a collector, it's built in. If I was homeless, I would collect some damn thing.

At least I can use cameras year round, motorcycles are very seasonal in Chicago. I only have 3 now...


Oh, I've got FOUR enlargers at the moment--scratch that, FIVE--and no darkroom. I'll get there some day, right around the time Ilford goes under and there's no more photo paper to be had.

J.

[jnantz]

hey randy

i'd just expose the hell out of the plates and develop them
in print developer, whatever you have. the emulsion on there
is sort of like paper emulsion, kinda-sorta ... what i tend to do
is use a stock developer ( ansco 130 ) and a dilute developer ( caffenol c ) and go back and forth
it works, but im not really very good at this stuff. i have grown to have the utmost respect
for people who were using dry plates 120 years ago. finicky-stuff .. , at least the saving grace is you can leave
the red light on and monitor how it is developing ;)

like you and jonathan .. when it comes to hoarding equipment and hoping to use it someday
i have limited myself now to 1 thing a year and it works OK ( NOT ).

have fun!

[Tin Can]

Gotta try something different. I have found staring at the box of plates does nothing! :)



hey randy

i'd just expose the hell out of the plates and develop them
in print developer, whatever you have. the emulsion on there
is sort of like paper emulsion, kinda-sorta ... what i tend to do
is use a stock developer ( ansco 130 ) and a dilute developer ( caffenol c ) and go back and forth
it works, but im not really very good at this stuff. i have grown to have the utmost respect
for people who were using dry plates 120 years ago. finicky-stuff .. , at least the saving grace is you can leave
the red light on and monitor how it is developing ;)

like you and jonathan .. when it comes to hoarding equipment and hoping to use it someday
i have limited myself now to 1 thing a year and it works OK ( NOT ).

have fun!

[sun of sand]

the original speeds of these plates were probably quite slower than the films listed already
most of the ortho plates are like 12 weston 20asa? so since a 100 speed film becomes a foggy 30 or clean 10
you can be pretty sure your plate needs much more light
then reciprocity

I'd guess it's 3 stops underexposed so I'd do 4 stops additional
reciprocity who knows


I'd shoot it 3 minutes and take it from there

[Tin Can]

Sounds good to me!

Thanks!



the original speeds of these plates were probably quite slower than the films listed already
most of the ortho plates are like 12 weston 20asa? so since a 100 speed film becomes a foggy 30 or clean 10
you can be pretty sure your plate needs much more light
then reciprocity

I'd guess it's 3 stops underexposed so I'd do 4 stops additional
reciprocity who knows


I'd shoot it 3 minutes and take it from there