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View Full Version : Sudgestion on good but not to expensiv 90mm



freddenacka
13-May-2013, 01:56
Halo
Im totaly new on LF and have a Newton New-Vue VC3 with Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 15cm f4.5 lens in a Zeiss Ikon Compur Shutter.
Info on the camera
http://monorecords.wordpress.com/large-format-photo/

I photo 4x5" but will do 6x7cm to with a rollfilmholder.
Im looking for a not to expensive 90 mm lens that is better ore in same quality as the tessar.
Any advice?
Do any one know more about this camera and lens that I have?
I do think that the lens are befor warII but I dont know?

Greatings
Fredrik

IanG
13-May-2013, 02:50
Your lens is off a German Zeiss Ikon most likely a 9x12 camera probably made at the end of the 1920's and uncoated, it covers 5x4 with a small amount of movement, at f22 these are good sharp lenses. You can look up the serial numbers of the lens and shutter to get a more exact date. These Tessars 135mm/150mm (actually marked in cm) were redesined with newer glass and mounted in the new rimset Compur somewhere around 1929/30. The shutter wouldn't be marked Zeiss Ikon if the lens was sold separately.

Can't help with the camera.

You might look for a good 90mm f6.8 Angulon they can be found for around 100-140 euros, just cover 5x4 but no room for movents or an early 90mm Super Anulon.

Ian

freddenacka
13-May-2013, 04:22
Your lens is off a German Zeiss Ikon most likely a 9x12 camera probably made at the end of the 1920's and uncoated, it covers 5x4 with a small amount of movement, at f22 these are good sharp lenses. You can look up the serial numbers of the lens and shutter to get a more exact date. These Tessars 135mm/150mm (actually marked in cm) were redesined with newer glass and mounted in the new rimset Compur somewhere around 1929/30. The shutter wouldn't be marked Zeiss Ikon if the lens was sold separately.

Can't help with the camera.

You might look for a good 90mm f6.8 Angulon they can be found for around 100-140 euros, just cover 5x4 but no room for movents or an early 90mm Super Anulon.

Ian

Thanks!
I will look for those! More or less way I want a 90mm is to be closer to normal optic when I use the 6x7 backholder. It is the use of adusebalt fron and back that intresst me most with this art!

I will probably photo mast black and white in 4x5" but color is so expensiv so that will probably beter with 120 film.

freddenacka
13-May-2013, 04:38
One crasy question, is it totaly out of question to use a tessar 10,5cm lens from a 6x9 folder camera?

E. von Hoegh
13-May-2013, 09:27
One crasy question, is it totaly out of question to use a tessar 10,5cm lens from a 6x9 folder camera?

This lens will cover the 6x7 rollfilm, but not 4x5. A 90mm Angulon is a good lens, and will allow room for movements when using the 6x7 back.

Roger Hesketh
13-May-2013, 12:40
Your camera has a spring back and the focusing screen does not detach so you will need to get a roll film holder that will slip under the springs of the spring back. Calumet I think amongst others made them. I do not know much about them myself but others with more experience of these things could possibly advise.

Peter Yeti
13-May-2013, 13:59
Cambo made the roll film holders for Calumet in various sizes, quite a simple construction but it works. Sinar made a number of similar roll film holders, which are much nicer but much more expensive. Sinar also made the vario zoom holder for different formats from 4.5x6 to 6x12. The problem with all of those is that they are fairly thick (24mm). Just make sure that your back can handle a cassette that thick before you spend a lot of money.

I haven't seen many cheap 6.8/90 Angulons lately. The 8/90 Super Angulon might be easier to find but usually isn't that cheap. An alternative is the 6.8/90 Grandagon (or Sinaron W).

freddenacka
13-May-2013, 14:25
Cambo made the roll film holders for Calumet in various sizes, quite a simple construction but it works. Sinar made a number of similar roll film holders, which are much nicer but much more expensive. Sinar also made the vario zoom holder for different formats from 4.5x6 to 6x12. The problem with all of those is that they are fairly thick (24mm). Just make sure that your back can handle a cassette that thick before you spend a lot of money.

I haven't seen many cheap 6.8/90 Angulons lately. The 8/90 Super Angulon might be easier to find but usually isn't that cheap. An alternative is the 6.8/90 Grandagon (or Sinaron W).

Thanks for all advice! I will look for a 90mm of the brands that you named and are not in hurry.
Is it always nessesary to have a complet lens with shutter and own bord?

I have a calumet c2 on my way home It would be nice to have 6x9 but didn't find any that were not to expensive. Maybe I get one later.

I most say that my impressions when I started with medium format this winter was big! So much better than my normal 35 camera but now after this weekend with a reall lf it beats everything I ever tried :-D

Peter Yeti
13-May-2013, 15:21
If you take your time, you'll have a good chance to find a great lens for not too much. Just look around and get familiar with the prices for a while before you seriously go on the hunt. Wide angle lenses in barrel are not that common, at least the post-war designs. The exceptions are lenses in Sinar DB mounts, which are meant to be used with a Sinar Copal shutter. I'd stay away from those unless you have a Sinar and the corresponding shutter. Most times it is more expensive to buy lens cells and a shutter separately. And mounting a wide angle in a shutter is precision work and not recommended to do yourself. The lens board is another matter and usually no big deal to exchange, as long as you can get a board for your camera.

Chauncey Walden
13-May-2013, 16:53
Everyone and their brothers will be looking for 90mm Angulons and Super Angulons for their to be delivered Wanderlust Travelwides (900 of them!). Don't expect to find one in the next 6 months without a bidding war. The 10.5 cm was the normal lens for 6x9. Stopped down a bit it's hard to beat a nice Tessar.

freddenacka
14-May-2013, 00:19
Okay mabybe that is the reasson of the high price level.
The reason way I ask with the 105 mm 6x9 folder camera lens is becaus I have a worn nettar 515 with a tessar that the shutter and lens is in good shape.
I think I will mont that one on the LF for 6x7 film now untill I find a nice 90 mm.
I did read that some folks use Polarid lenses, how do that work? Is it a shuter in those cameras?

Struan Gray
14-May-2013, 00:26
Hej Fred

As others have said, this is not a great time to be looking for one of the classic 90 mm LF lenses - lots of other people want the same thing.

On the other hand, you have access to Swedish resources like Fotosidan, Tradera and Blocket which are easier for a local to use. None of them have a lot of LF stuff, but I have seen 90 mm Angulons go for relatively little money on all three, so if you are patient, you should be able to find something within your budget. LP.foto have regular auctions which often include classic lenses like Angulons but the prices tend to be higher. They often get rid of the stuff which doesn't sell by putting it on Blocket or Tradera in the weeks after their proper auctions, so bargains can be had.

If you're happy using English and German, have a look at the UK and Germany eBay sites. They have a lot more equipment than any Swedish sales outlet, and the prices tend to be lower too. An alternative to the Angulon is the 89 mm Wray wide angle, which doesn't have a great reputation, but is good enough for most purposes.

A final option is to look for lenses from other camera systems and find a way to mount them on your LF camera. If you want to do 6x7 a lens from a 6x9 system would give you some movements. The Mamiya Press system had high-quality 90 mm and 100 mm lenses with built in shutters and you could always butcher an old camera to get a mount for them. That said, if you want to use a lot of movements you'd be better with a 'proper' LF lens.


PS: ta grna kontakt med mig p svenska, om du s vill.

Dan Fromm
14-May-2013, 07:13
Fred, this is to expand a little on Struan's suggestion to look for a 90 or 100 mm lens for the Mamiya Press system. These are good lenses and are preferable to, e.g., the 90 mm lens for the Koni-Omega/Omega Rapid system, because of they way they're mounted. They're in conventional shutters with conventional cocking lever, shutter release and cable release socket. To use one on y'r Newton, all you'll have to do is remove it from its Mamiya Press lens cone and put it on a board that the Newton will accept.

As you've been told already, if you want to use the same 90 on 6x7 and 4x5 you'll have to get a wide angle lens for 4x5.

About slip-in roll holders, unless I missed it no one has mentioned the Adapt-A-Roll 620. These slip in like sheet film holders, will feed film on 120 spools, but must take up on a 620 spool. Read about 'em at www.graflex.org, look in the FAQ and search the site. As far as I know, no one has ever pointed out the the 4x5 size AAR 620's gate is offset ~ 5 mm to the right of the camera body's gate. They can be found, often at reasonable prices, on ebay.com. If you decide to chase one, take care to get one for 4x5; they were also made to fit 2x3 and 3x4 press cameras, ignorant or unscrupulous sellers often misrepresent the smaller sizes as for 4x5.

Roger Hesketh
18-May-2013, 17:11
Dan I am a loss to understand why you are recommending the use of an Adapt A Roll 620 to a Newbie to Large format photography for use with a 4x5 camera with a spring back. Am I missing something? Do they have some advantages in use over the alternatives. They do not strike me as being particularly inexpensive and they are not exactly the most user friendly pieces of kit. Apart from the need to faff about with 620 spools I would hate to buy one of them without an instruction sheet. Even with the instruction sheet, which is not actually that helpful, I for one struggle but then I am another one of those people presumably whom you would consider to be an idiot so that I suppose it is really to be expected.

Now for 2x3 or 3x4 cameras with spring backs were their are really no viable alternatives if you want to use roll film I understand their use. But for use with 4x5 cameras were their are more readily available and easier to use roll film holders I do not understand your recommendation.

The Nue View camera also has a reputation for being a difficult camera to use anyway. Just concerned that the use of a Nue View with an Adapt-A-Roll 620 might be enough to put someone off Large Format for life. As a Newbie to LF you have enough to think about without being hampered by equipment the use of which is not intuitive.

freddenacka
19-May-2013, 10:56
I have talked to a local dealer in Sweden and he is willing to sell a 90mm f6.8 Angulon for 900kr (110 dollar)
It is a smal scrath in it and I will try to shot with it tomorrow. I will get it scheper if it is a a defect that are viseble on the photos.
I will leav examples here tomorrow and see what you think

John Koehrer
19-May-2013, 15:15
Isn't there also a 90 Optar used on the Speed Graphics?
Dunno if it covered 4X5 though.

Get 'em while the gettin's good!

LF_rookie_to_be
20-May-2013, 13:52
Look for an early 70s 90/5,6 Super-Angulon in a broken Synchro-Compur. Mine was under $200, flawless glass. Currently preparing to do a repair on the shutter (firing problems, bent shutter blades, missing screws) with parts arriving soon. Sure won't be easy, but doable with a little assistance from a watchmaker and a fine mechanic.
90/6.8 Optar does cover 4x5, but you get virtually no movements. Pretty sharp at f16 and below. And those Rapax/Graphex shutters are not difficult to repair.

Kuzano
20-May-2013, 15:15
Be diligent....and don't stop looking just because of the Wanderlust Search. About a week ago, I just picked up a 90mm Linhof Select (red triangle) Angulon (very clean) in a very nice Synchro Compur running within spec on speeds. In any event, I am sending the shutter in to SK Grimes for an overhaul, at about $100 to $125. OK, my choice on the overhaul and it probably doesn't need it.

However, I followed the auction eBay.. no bidding war, and picked it up for $179.50. Where ARE all these people who are snapping up 90mm angulons for their Travelwide?

Don't stop looking, just because 1000 of the camera's were just sold, for which this lens is ideal. Keep a positive attitude and you'll find what you are looking for.

Me.. I never look anywhere but eBay. I eventually come up with the item and I generally don't pay over priced values.

Learning to do advanced searches on eBay, watching feed back closely, never buying from anyone under 98.5 positive feedback and a minimum feedback of 200, and other small tricks like looking for mispelled items, items in wrong categories and items that close at 3AM in the morning have paid off immensely.

imagedowser
21-May-2013, 00:06
How about a Kodak 100mm Wide Field Ektar? I'm waiting for my shutter to come back from a cla at Frank Marshmans in Va.

Randy
21-May-2013, 05:51
I often use a 105mm Agfa Apotar from an Agfa Billy Record II.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/Record_II.jpg

I believe it is a triplet. I use it on a 2 1/4 X 3 1/4 Crown Graphic as it is meant for 6X9. What is great about it is if you set the front of the lens at infinity and then focus on the ground glass you get nice sharp images. If you set the front of the lens to 3 feet, then use the ground glass you get a nice soft glow. Of course, you can modify the affect by turning the front of the lens to anywhere in between infinity and 3 feet.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/randy10.jpg

Of course, it won't cover 4X5 but I have played with it on that format...even shot 5X7 with it.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/swirl1.jpg

freddenacka
22-May-2013, 00:25
I often use a 105mm Agfa Apotar from an Agfa Billy Record II.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/Record_II.jpg

I believe it is a triplet. I use it on a 2 1/4 X 3 1/4 Crown Graphic as it is meant for 6X9. What is great about it is if you set the front of the lens at infinity and then focus on the ground glass you get nice sharp images. If you set the front of the lens to 3 feet, then use the ground glass you get a nice soft glow. Of course, you can modify the affect by turning the front of the lens to anywhere in between infinity and 3 feet.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/randy10.jpg

Of course, it won't cover 4X5 but I have played with it on that format...even shot 5X7 with it.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/52893762/swirl1.jpg

Interesting! Very nice photos!
I tried the 90 mm from the photo store here in Stockholm and I did have problem to get it close enough to the ground glass I have focus at about 10 cm ore so.
There is just at paperboard that I use to try it and I think it is to thick.
I will put it on another board and try again.

The dust in the lens is behind the last glass, the one you se when you look at the camera.
Do you know if it is possible to open that lens?
95570

freddenacka
26-May-2013, 00:51
Hum I don't get it to work.
I don't get the lens close enough to the ground glass to get focus in infinity. The best I can get is 5 meter when I made the lens plate in different levels.
Is it just like this camera don't accept to smal lenses? Maby I should try to get a 100 ore 120 lens?

freddenacka
26-May-2013, 12:54
I saw now that the minimum leth that I can get with my Newton is 11 cm from ground glass to lens. Is it possible to calculat the smallest possible lens on that leth?

Dan Fromm
26-May-2013, 13:46
I saw now that the minimum leth that I can get with my Newton is 11 cm from ground glass to lens. Is it possible to calculat the smallest possible lens on that leth?

It is hard to understand what you measured. If it is the minimum front of lens board-to-film distance, then look up flange-to-film distances in catalogs. Often called flange focal distance.

Go here https://www.schneideroptics.com/info/vintage_lens_data/index.htm for older Schneider lenses. Look in catalogs on www.cameraeccentric.com. Look in the lens tables here and at www.graflex.org

If I understood you correctly and your Newton's minimum extension is really 11 cm, I'm not sure there's a 90 mm lens that will focus to infinity on it.

Oh and by the way, normal lenses from roll film folding (120 size) cameras are not wide angle lenses and won't cover 4x5.

I don't recall handling a Newton. The images you posted in your first post suggest (great stress suggest) that it may be possible to run the front standard off the front ends of the rods, then run the tripod mounting block off the front ends of the rods, then replace the front standard, then replace the tripod mounting block (in front of the front standard). If this can be done, you'll get much shorter minimum extension than the camera offers as you've shown it. Try it and report back.

Good luck, have fun,

Dan

freddenacka
26-May-2013, 14:22
Halo
Thanks a lot! Newton rolls!
Now when I changed the position then it work very pleasing with the 90 mm.
Be happy that your not here, I would give you a kiss otherwise.
This have been my headache all weekend now i will sleep more then well!
What is this small metal thing doing? The one I have in my hand.
95798

freddenacka
29-May-2013, 00:31
Is it possible to use a smaller bellow to this camera when I want to use smaller lenses and still want to be able to have movements?

Dan Fromm
29-May-2013, 04:40
Ask the camera if its bellows can easily be removed. If the bellows will come off easily, then you can make a set of bellows frames and a bag bellows. If not, you'll have to get a camera that allows easy interchange of bellows and is friendly to short lenses.

freddenacka
15-Jun-2013, 06:50
I did leave back the 90 mm lens thou the low speed did not work and the dirt between the glass was visible on pictures.
Now I got a old Tessar 12cm 4,5 and a 13 cm Polaroid lens hope I can make some fun out of them :)




http://www.ebay.de/itm/380583347706?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649


http://www.ebay.de/itm/181145410247?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

Dan Fromm
15-Jun-2013, 08:16
On dear, oh dear.

A 120/4.5 Tessar won't cover 4x5.

The Polaroid 800's lens and shutter are integral with the front standard. To use the lens/shutter assembly you'll have to put the whole thing on a Newton board. The shutter has programmed exposure, with a limited range of shutter speeds and apertures. The map from EV number to shutter speed and aperture is given in the user manual, which can be found here: http://www.cameramanuals.org/polaroid_pdf/polaroid_150_800.pdf

A competent repairman should be able to overhaul the Rapax shutter your 90 is in and can also clean the lens. That cause isn't lost.

freddenacka
15-Jun-2013, 09:08
Okay I did think it was okay to use a 9x12 lens in a 4x5 camera?
As the 15cm Tessar that I use now.
He wanted ower 100 dollar for the broke 90mm so I think I would be cheaper to find a used working one.
I got the Tessar camera for 50 euros so not that much.
The Polaroid was less then a dollar.
Maybe I can use it for something else.

freddenacka
15-Jun-2013, 09:15
I hope the Tessar cover my 6x7 rollfilmholders anyway it is most to that I will use it :)

paulMD
18-Jun-2013, 13:41
If I was looking for big coverage in the 90mm range right now I'd try to hunt down a 80 or 100mm Kodak Wide Field Ektar or a 105mm plasmat (Symmar, Sironar, "-W" types, etc). Otherwise a Tessar will probably do fine. You'll be better off if you use literally anything that's not precisely 90mm given the hunt for Travelwide lenses right now.

Carsten Wolff
18-Jun-2013, 17:26
If I was looking for big coverage in the 90mm range right now I'd try to hunt down a 80 or 100mm Kodak Wide Field Ektar or a 105mm plasmat (Symmar, Sironar, "-W" types, etc). Otherwise a Tessar will probably do fine. You'll be better off if you use literally anything that's not precisely 90mm given the hunt for Travelwide lenses right now.

I'd not agree with that. Neither a 80mm WF Ektar, nor aformentioned Plasmats have much, if any coverage for movements at 105mm on 4x5 - nor is a 100mm WF Ektar necessarily cheaper than a 90mm standard Biogon-derived w/a lens. The WF Ektars in good condition are not that common and can, like the old 90mm Angulon, make a nice light field lens, hence their price.

Find e.g. a nice 90mm Caltar II-N (although I think the secret is out), or if you want cheap and light, try a (3 1/2" or longer) Wollensak W. A. Raptar perhaps; a good copy can be a lovely "travel-wide". Kerry Thalmann may still have some nice suggestions on his site as well I think.

freddenacka
21-Jun-2013, 15:32
I got the 12cm Tessar now and it seams to cover well. Have not developed yet so not totally sure.
The distans is much better then with the 90mm so works better on this camera.
I come back when I have developed to show results :)

8x10 user
22-Jun-2013, 13:55
What are we considering expensive? The 90XL is probably the most expensive (and nicest) of the modern 90mm wide angles but a slightly older Grandagon F/6.8 is also a very good lens and much more affordable.

One might find the F6.8 grandy to be well worth the extra $100 over the very first angulon.

cjbroadbent
22-Jun-2013, 14:29
Have a look at this Super Symmar 80mm (http://www.newoldcamera.com/Scheda.aspx?Codice=NC1251). I gave up trying to see through a Super Angulon 90mm and found happiness with the 80mm. I was using it with 4x5 and a 6x12 roll-film back.

freddenacka
23-Jun-2013, 03:02
Here is an tow example with the 12cm CZ Tessar. I like it but the shuter need to be cleand tho 1 sec and half sec is to slow.
What do you think?
The one at the lunch is mabe not a really good photografic work but i try to lern to get normal events.
9746097461

freddenacka
23-Jun-2013, 03:22
this one is beter!
I will use this until i can afford a real good wideangel :)97462