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Ian Greenhalgh
11-May-2013, 16:58
Hi folks

I can find no reference online to a 9.5cm Protar yet I have seen one for sale.

Anyone got any info? What will it cover?

Dan Fromm
11-May-2013, 18:50
Ian, Protar is a trade name, not a design type. It includes quite a number of different designs, maximum aperture from f/4.5 to f/18, with very different coverages.

There are sources of information on the Internet that Google searches won't find. Visit http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/zeiss_4.html to learn more about Protars.

There are sources of information that are not on the Internet. Buy a copy of A Lens Collector's Vade Mecum.

Ian Greenhalgh
11-May-2013, 21:49
I have a copy of the Vade Mecum Dan.

I should have specified, it's a CZJ f9 Protar 9.5cm.

Louis Pacilla
11-May-2013, 22:33
I have a copy of the Vade Mecum Dan.

I should have specified, it's a CZJ f9 Protar 9.5cm.

Sounds like a Series IIIa Protar which in that size should cover up to 97 degrees stopped down all the way.

Ian Greenhalgh
12-May-2013, 00:56
Cheers Louis, that is what I needed to know, it says 9.5cm is for 6x9.

Dan Fromm
12-May-2013, 05:44
I should have specified, it's a CZJ f9 Protar 9.5cm.

Yes you should have. Giving incomplete information when asking a question is unkind, makes you look like a fool or a game-player.

And you should have followed the link I gave you. I don't know where Louis found the catalog page he posted, but the link I posted will take you to it. I posted the link to make you aware of the cameraeccentric site, a small trove of catalogs.

Ian Greenhalgh
12-May-2013, 05:47
Dan, your attitude stinks, please stop being so preachy, it rubs people up the wrong way. Calling people fools is not going to endear you to anyone and just makes you look like a know-it-all old grouch, quite frankly. Not impressed.

Ole Tjugen
12-May-2013, 11:47
Ian, Dan answers 100s of these questions every year. Anyone could do a search here on this forum, and found out that calling a lens just a "Protar" is almost as useless as calling it a "lens".

Without Serie or max aperture, we're all equally lost when it comes to determining Protars. Giving enough information to work on - i.e. everything you have - is common courtesy.

ridax
12-May-2013, 14:40
As posted by other people on this forum years before, the IIIa Protar is actually anastigmatically corrected up to 60 only. It was advertised a century ago as usable within 97 (or sometimes more) if stopped down but even then Zeiss admitted the 60-only anastigmatic field.

I've actually checked the edge sharpness, and I find the residual astigmatism just awful there. You may or may not find the field sharpness acceptable for your particular needs but I'd rather not buy this lens for wide-angle usage without trying it first. I use (and love) mine within that 60 only.

Ian Greenhalgh
12-May-2013, 17:45
Ian, Dan answers 100s of these questions every year. Anyone could do a search here on this forum, and found out that calling a lens just a "Protar" is almost as useless as calling it a "lens".

Without Serie or max aperture, we're all equally lost when it comes to determining Protars. Giving enough information to work on - i.e. everything you have - is common courtesy.

I made a minor mistake, I forgot that Zeiss weren't the only people to make Protars.

Does it give Dan the right to speak to me like he did? Of course not, and it's not the first time he's called me unsavoury names, hence I spoke up. In future, I don't care to have any discourse with him whatsoever due to his attitude.

Ole Tjugen
13-May-2013, 08:13
If I remember correctly, Zeiis made 9 different Protars, and two of the "Series" were re-used for different designs. That's 11 different types of Zeiss Protar. Add the licensed products from B&J, Krauss, and others, and you're up to a large enough number that it's hopeless without more information. The only thing that could be worse is "Anastigmat", and most of the Protars were originally called Anastigmat...

Chauncey Walden
13-May-2013, 17:03
When you've been around the list longer you'll realize that Dan is a fountain of good and sometimes rare information. True, sometimes it is a bitter fountain, but the quench is worth the taste. Ole is more diplomatic. The bottom line is, the more information you furnish when asking a question, the better the answer.

Dan Fromm
13-May-2013, 17:10
I made a minor mistake, I forgot that Zeiss weren't the only people to make Protars.

Does it give Dan the right to speak to me like he did? Of course not, and it's not the first time he's called me unsavoury names, hence I spoke up. In future, I don't care to have any discourse with him whatsoever due to his attitude.

Ian, you were cruel in a large way. You didn't specify anything about the lens but its focal length. As has been pointed out, there are many types of Protars. Maker is irrelevant, you've just popped off about something that isn't important. What matters in trying to puzzle out which Protar is meant is, as Ole has already stated, series number and maximum aperture.

I have no idea what you are. I know what you're acting like. If you take that as a direct insult, try to be more thoughtful.

By the way, if you'd spent some time exploring the cameraeccentric site you'd know that Ole's comments to the effect that the name Protar covers many types is spot on. You'd also have discovered that B&L's Protars were originally made under license from CZJ. So were, and I'm sure I missed some licensees, Protars made by Koristka, Krauss, Ross and Suter. What goes for a CZJ Protar ser x with max aperture f/y goes for all such Protars from other makers.

Chauncey, I think it is time for a gin and tonic all 'round. The tonic's quinine wards off malaria, and the malaria season is underway.

Chauncey Walden
14-May-2013, 08:13
And, Dan, you never know when you may have to travel to some part of the world where there may be mosquitoes!

Ian Greenhalgh
18-May-2013, 11:57
Ian, you were cruel in a large way. You didn't specify anything about the lens but its focal length. As has been pointed out, there are many types of Protars. Maker is irrelevant, you've just popped off about something that isn't important. What matters in trying to puzzle out which Protar is meant is, as Ole has already stated, series number and maximum aperture.

I have no idea what you are. I know what you're acting like. If you take that as a direct insult, try to be more thoughtful.

By the way, if you'd spent some time exploring the cameraeccentric site you'd know that Ole's comments to the effect that the name Protar covers many types is spot on. You'd also have discovered that B&L's Protars were originally made under license from CZJ. So were, and I'm sure I missed some licensees, Protars made by Koristka, Krauss, Ross and Suter. What goes for a CZJ Protar ser x with max aperture f/y goes for all such Protars from other makers.

Chauncey, I think it is time for a gin and tonic all 'round. The tonic's quinine wards off malaria, and the malaria season is underway.

The thing I took as a direct insult was the direct insult you hurled, you called me a fool and were generally extremely unpleasant. You might be knowledgable, but you're also incredibly rude and obnoxious.