Large format carrying stroller

[Jean-Louis Llech]

Here is an answer I posted a few months ago on the LF Forum. As carrying LF gear is a recurrent question, I thought it would be interesting to share my experience with the LF community.

My gear :

A Linhof Master Technika 4x5", with 6 lenses, (58 to 400 mm, some are large XL lenses) Quickload or Fidelity holders, 20 sheet films, 2 6x9 roll-film holders, 545 and 550 polaroid backs with films, right angle reflex attachement, and accessories (L508 spotmeter, inclinometer, darkcloth...).
Tripod : a Gitzo G1329 Carbon-fiber, with a G1570 low profile head.

Analysis of the problem

<ol><li>A standard backpack like my Lowepro Super-Trekker gives the best storage capacity but carrying it on the back presents some dangers and drawbacks.
<li>The backpack itself is heavy, and when it is full, it is very very heavy (more than 25 Kg).
<li>I'm 55 years old and with 2 prostheses of hip, carrying the Super-Trekker on my back is very painful after a few hours.
<li>The side torsion movement when unloading the backpack is very dangerous for the spinal column.
<li>You must leave the bag on the ground. I like to go in forests, and, if the ground is wet, the bag must be isolated from mud or water...
<li>All photo backpacks with very small wheels are maybe very convenient in railroad stations or airports, but, downtown, with the pavements and the inequalities of the ground, it is a true pain. In countryside or forests, it is completely impossible.</ol>

First trials :

Following advices of other large format photographers, I tried first to use luggage caddies or golf carriers :

When using such a carrier, drawbacks are obvious :
<ul><li>Because of the backpack's weight and the reduced spacing between the very small wheels, I found it was very difficult to pull the caddy behind me without seeing it frequently rocking. Quite impossible in cross-country.
<li>Moreover, the two-wheeled caddy (even the two-wheeled Sherpa cart) can't be left without holding it when I stop walking.</ul>

The solution :

I bought a used 3-wheeled baby-stroller, "Everest" model by french manufacturer "Bébé Comfort" (you can see it on their website in english : http://www.bebeconfort.com/UK/voir.htm.
The same kind of stroller can be bought everywhere, new or used.
I attached the Super Trekker backpack on it, by means of velcro straps fixed in the side passers. (As far as I know, Lowepro bags are the only backpacks with these side passers)

Advantages
<ul><li>The wheels are very large and are equipped with inflatable tires mounted on shock absorbers. Therefore carrying the backpack is very comfortable and vibrations are completely reduced. (Lenses, shutters and other precision equipments are protected).
<li>I can use it downtown or in countryside, forests, on quite all ways (of course no hill-climbing...) but with no efforts !
<li>The tripod and head are securely attached on the side of the backpack.
<li>On three wheels, the whole carriage is very stable, without swings, and it holds upright by itself when I stop walking.
<li>The stroller can be pushed or pulled, and it is very easy to drive it and to raise it for crossing pavements and small obstacles.
<li>I can stop immediately without holding the carriage, or laying the bag on the ground, and the bag never falls.
<li>The stroller has a speed reducer on the front wheel (priceless in the slopes) and brakes on both aft wheels.
<li>When stopping, the bag is never in contact with the ground (water, mud or moisture) and, once opened, it presents all its contents like on an oblique cradle. This allows a complete and easy access to the camera and all accessories.
<li>The stroller is collapsible, and all three wheels can be dismounted for stocking it in a car.</ul>
Drawbacks
<ul><li>The price (about $200 used in mint condition), but I consider that my health, and the cost of photographic equipment have much more value !
<li>The stroller's weight, added to the bag's one.
<li> It is sometimes difficult to carry the stroller and the bag up- and downstairs, but not impossible.</ul>

Conclusion

When using the stroller and the bag on it, I am much less tired when I find something worth to be photographied.
When I carried all the gear on my back, I was often exhausted, and sometimes completely disgusted. "A 35 mm camera was so light and less cumbersome...Why the hell did I bought this d.. camera !"
Since I use this system, as I am much less tired to carry the backpack, I found again a real pleasure to use the LF camera.
Moreover, I recovered my concentration to appreciate the beauty of landscapes and all what I see.
I also avoided making multiple mistakes, as I often did when I was too tired.

I hope this will help many people carrying their LF gear. I will try to send some photos as soon as I'll have made them.

I intend to improve my "LF-Stroller" system, and I would like to know if someone has tested a similar carrying tool, and to share our experiments.
Best regards.

[Leonard Evens]

I am 70 years old with four herniated disks and spinal stenosis. I have a Toho FC-45X, which is about as light as you can find, but as I add lenses and other equipment, I find the weight adding up. I have a very light backpack---even lighter than the LowePro, a lunch bag to carry up to eight film holders, a 6 lb tripod and other odds and ends of equipment, some of which won't fit in the backpack. Like you, I have trouble bending over.

My solution was a Baby Jogger with 20 inch wheels. I put the backpack, tripod, and film holders in the seat, and other accessories in a plastic bag in a pouch hanging on the back of the jogger. In addition, I got myself a small folding camp stool, which also fits in the seat. It helps if I need a low vantage point since bending over or crouching would be a problem. I can use the jogger in anything but the roughest terrain. The 20 inch wheels are a big help. When taking pictures, I open the canopy and use it as a platform to hold the backpack as I open it to get at the equipment. If necessary I can put the backpack on my back and carry the tripod with a strap. The lunchbag hangs from my belt and other needed accessories go in pockets. I rarely have to do that, but I haven't yet ventured into hilly terrain in the wild.

The Baby Jogger was expensive---even on sale---but I would be very constrained without it.

[Frank Petronio]

This gives new meaning to "babying" your camera!

Seems like a bicycle type stroller would work well too. We just got a bicycle trailer for our (human) baby - it looks like it would work well for camera gear when she eventually outgrows it (and I'll be 50 years old by then...OMG, never wrote that before.)

[Leonard Evens]

Frank,

I also used my Baby Jogger for my granddaughter, who is now 3 1/2. She will still fit in it, but she has pretty much outgrown such things otherwise. There is no reason you can't use it both for your daughter and for your cameras.

I also considered getting a bicycle trailer, but I thought it would be awkward to use without a bicycle. The jogging strollers can be pushed and have brakes. Also they are very easy to navigate around obstacles.

[tim atherton]

our baby jogging stroller (on baby #2 now so I have had to give it back...) also converts to a bike trailer - very handy

can't remember the website, but it's Chariot strollers of Calgary - yes, they are jogging strollers, but they a really designed for getting over snow covered sidewalks in a Canuck winter...! (actually, you can also put skis on it).

[Frank Petronio]

We got a realatively inexpensive ($200 compared to $350 plus versions) steel frame Avenier (not an "A" class brand in the bike world) that converts to a hand stroller quite easily. In fact, it is our "jogging stroller"- and may end up becoming a ULF camera cart in its next life...

[scott jones]

I seriously considered many options like these myself and here is a device made specifically for "back packers" and sports enthusiasts that fits the bill perfectly. They have a couple of models. One is designed for rough terrain. I never did buy one, but was very tempted and still am...

http://www.sherpacart.com

[Jean-Louis Llech]

Scott,
I already quoted the two-wheeled Sherpa cart in my first post, and I agree that it's probably the best two-wheeled cart.

But, when I considered buying one, I noticed that the width spacing of wheels seemed very narrow, even if this spacing could be adjusted from narrow to wide.
On its "narrow trail" configuration, the wheel stance width is 9 in. (23 cm), and on the "wide trail" one, the width is only 17 in. (43 cm).
I think that with a heavy load on it, the cart may rock and fall, like all other two-wheeled bags I tested.

On the stroller I use, the wheel stance width is nearly 23 in. (58 cm).
That is the main reason why I preferred a three-wheeled cart : on the stroller, the three wheels constitute a 23 in. by 25.5 in. triangle (58cm x 65cm).
Like a photo tripod, it has a great stability, improved by the weight of the heavy-loaded Lowepro Super-Trekker backpack, and its center of gravity is lower than the Sherpa's.

[Scott Edwards]

InStep double baby jogger. Plastic bottom, double wide, 100 pound capacity. After 2000 plus miles, still going strong.
You can get them used for around $25 - $50

http://scottedwards.us/images/InStepCanyon.jpg

(From book cover here (http://scottedwards.us/images/book.jpg))

[R Mann]

I have tried both - so a couple of quick observations:

A jogging stroller will have a higher center of gravity when loaded than a bike trailer -

Most bike trailers will have a larger load space -

I found taking a tripod along with a jogging stroller to be a problem, it fits nicer into a bike trailer -

Bike trailers do not have hand brakes, and some don't have a parking brake -

The handle bar set up on some bike trailers is too close to the body leaving little room for your feet when pushing it -

Bike trailers are wider, can make moving it through gates or doorways difficult -

A pivoting front wheel can a useful when using either in tight quarters -

Most jogging strollers fold quickly - most bike trailers need additional time and steps -

Both need a fairly large trunk space, so you need a car/van that they will fit into - especially if you want to keep the wheels on to save set up time -

Both will need some reinforcement or change of the load floor to carry equipment -

I sold the jogging stroller and now use a bike trailer -

I got one with a pivoting front wheel option and a non pivoting bike wheel. I can now carry twice the load and with the lower center of gravity I don't worry about tipping. If I had an unlimited budget I would get a Chariot - instead I got a Croozer which weighs more, has a few less features, but costs about half.

[jeroldharter]

I have tried all sorts of things. First, I have an inexpensive stroller with small swivel wheels that was basically a frame on wheels to which you could attach baby car seats. I used it to strap on Pelican cases. It worked well in town but the wheels were too small and that "lashing down" was too awkward and unreliable.

Then I bought a used Burley bicycle trailer with stroller attachments. It is relatively huge and it wheels like a dream with little resistance. The down sides are that the wheels are bicycle sized so it is awkward to stow in a vehicle. It is also cumbersome to break down and put back together. It is too big to take on a plane. The wheels are narrow so it is not so good off road.

Finally I bout an InStep 3 wheeled jogging stroller with a large, fixed, front wheel. It is the best so far. My only complaint is that the seat is intended for a child rather than camera gear (of course). That requires the case to be stored sideways so it is somewhat inconvenient to open the camera bag but no big deal. Other than that, it is durable, has somewhat larger wheels so it works well on trails (but I would argue against icy inclines), folds easily, is more easily transportable, can be taken on flights and is great for lugging stuff around airports. If I were handy, I would make a sling for attaching a tripod easily. You have to improvise with the tripod.

Also, it keeps your gear in front of you where you can see it so I like that if I am in crowds. If you are setting up in crowded areas, it allows you to seal off an area around your tripod and nobody is tempted to step over it like a backpack on the ground.

At first I thought I would want the swiveling front wheel but they cost more and more people recommended the fixed wheel. I like the fixed wheel better. It tracks better when walking so requires less attention and effort. When loaded properly, the balance on the rear wheels is very good so that turning is easy.

[John Powers]

Some very interesting ideas have been posted. I am 70 years old and have been using this baby jogger for five years. http://babyjogger.com/perf_jogger_lp.aspx. I use it for 8x10 and 7x17 cameras with Ries tripods. Most of the time I use it for following the towpath while photographing the OH & Erie Canal. I have also used it in cities and across open fields, not cliffs nor stairs.

Low center of gravity and a place to store film holders was mentioned. Note this baby jogger has two rails going between the front and rear axles. The rails are long enough to hold seven 7x17 film holders in a nylon bag. Alternatively I carry 8x10 film holders in a cheap Walmart bag bungied to these rails. I have not had a tipping problem. This may be because of the low center of gravity, the wide track of the rear wheels, or that I do not drink and drive.

I found a cooler bag that is about a one foot cube with 1/2 inch padded walls, top and bottom. This is my “stuff” bag. Inside are five lenses on boards in open zip lock bags, meter, 9” level, loupe, tools, stop watch and dark cloth. This bag rests in the seat.

For several posters carrying a tripod has been a problem. I mount either RH Phillips camera folded flat on a Ries head on a Ries tripod with the spikes extended. The jogger has a foot pad into which I have drilled two ¼” holes for the spikes. The camera is bungy corded to the top of the “stuff” bag for padding and hooked to the shock absorbers. The two holes are the only modification I have made.

I hike 8-12 miles a week with my two Labrador Retrievers. This has conditioned me so that I can easily walk the jogger two miles out and two back with all the gear. There are things beyond 50 feet-yards from the car that I feel are worth photographing. Beyond that I can usually find a parking place closer. I drive a Toyota Highlander or midsize all wheel drive SUV. I transport the camera mounted on the tripod on one side of the back floor, the collapsed jogger on the other. For long trips I have a steel 2x4 foot basket that plugs into the trailer hitch. I can carry the jogger in this and both cameras on tripods in the car.

I think Jerold makes two very good points here. “Also, it keeps your gear in front of you where you can see it so I like that if I am in crowds. If you are setting up in crowded areas, it allows you to seal off an area around your tripod and nobody is tempted to step over it like a backpack on the ground.”

I chose the jogger vs. the bike trailer because I see more at walking speed than I do at bike speed.

John

[bob carnie]

You know , I just started my journey with a couple of large format cameras and after one weekend I releized I need to join a gym or get a unit to carry the cameras. I was going to get hold of John Powers and ask him, but lo and behold here is the exact thread I am looking for and bookmarking.

thank you all

[John Powers]

You know , I just started my journey with a couple of large format cameras and after one weekend I releized I need to join a gym or get a unit to carry the cameras. I was going to get hold of John Powers and ask him, but lo and behold here is the exact thread I am looking for and bookmarking.

thank you all

It is a joy to help Bob who has helped and taught so many of us.

I found my jogger on eBay. The older version had one fault in my opinion. The parking brake locked the front wheel which carries far less than 1/3rd the weight. It was useless. The newer version locks both back wheels. Look for that feature or park the old one jammed against a tree or post.

The gym or certainly the hiking made all my blood and breathing tests better, increased my stamina and made my angry doctor stop yelling at me. He has a phi beta kappa key, has kept me alive the last forty years and cured all the ills I asked about, so I tolerate the yelling.

John

[bob carnie]

John I think you will go on for another forty years and I hope I can too.

[Lenny Eiger]

I'm very interested in this thread. I appreciate everyone's input, however, I have to admit, I don't see my solution yet. I think that many of the carriers would work, but I don't want to push things on a trail. I would want to have a backpack harness to pull it. I did see one on the Chariot, but it seems backwards to me.

I envision a single wheel, or two wheels on a very short axle, maybe 4 inches across. Then one could hike up a fairly thin trail.

There is an overabundance of photographers, especially around here (CA). I don't like to photograph the same thing every one else is photographing, and so that means getting off the paved roads and out of the car.

Lenny

[rdenney]

I envision a single wheel

This would be known as a wheelbarrow. The wheelbarrow concept could be easily enough modified to attach to the sides of a hip belt.

The Babyjogger convertible bike trailer/jogger looks as though it holds more, folds easily, can be made water resistant, and has wheels large enough to go off-pavement.

http://babyjogger.com/switchbck_hybrid_dtl.aspx

But if I were actually hiking on narrow hiking trails, I would optimize for a backpack solution. There is a picture of me floating around my pile somewhere of me carrying a Cambo monorail (with four lenses, ten film holders, and Bogen 3036/3047 tripod, plus sundries) in a modified Kelty external-frame backpack. I hung the camera in the top compartment with the rail extending out to the sides. I still have that backpack, but it goes unused. I was tougher in those days.

Rick "happy to push something with wheels over flat, smooth walking paths" Denney

[deadpan]

I've considered many options, and am still saving/ deciding, but came across these while on my search. It is currently my favorite in terms of choice and features. Not the cheapest option however...

http://www.humpalumpa.com/

[Richard Wasserman]

I know everybody seems to like jogging strollers, but in the same situation I went with a Sherpa Cart. www.sherpacart.com It has a smaller footprint than a stroller and is narrower. Holds a lot and is easy to maneuver.

[Rick Moore]

I know everybody seems to like jogging strollers, but in the same situation I went with a Sherpa Cart. www.sherpacart.com It has a smaller footprint than a stroller and is narrower. Holds a lot and is easy to maneuver.

I have been using a Sherpa cart with a Tenba PBH pack strapped to it for my 8x10 since 2001. The only thing I've added is rim seals to stop the tires from leaking too fast. It's not perfect, but it works well for me.


--
Rick

[jeroldharter]

I've considered many options, and am still saving/ deciding, but came across these while on my search. It is currently my favorite in terms of choice and features. Not the cheapest option however...

http://www.humpalumpa.com/

These are cool. I have not come across them before. Thanks for the link.

[Richard Wasserman]

I have been using a Sherpa cart with a Tenba PBH pack strapped to it for my 8x10 since 2001. The only thing I've added is rim seals to stop the tires from leaking too fast. It's not perfect, but it works well for me.
--
Rick

I took my Sherpa Cart wheels to a bike shop and had them put in tubes–they hold air now. Much better!

[John Jarosz]

I thought I post some pics of my final solution. I say final because I've been thru two iterations before this one.

Storing and transporting the 8x20 is the only thing about ULF that I didn't anticipate.

I bought a Pelican-style large case from Calumet. It just fits into the secret trunk well in the bed of my pickup. The 8x20, 3 lenses, 4 filmholders, darkcloth, extension rail, meter, loupe and filters are all in one case. The only external component left is the tripod.

I decided that large wheels are the only way to make rolling this on trails easier. So I got some wheels from Lowes, threaded rod, made some spacers, and riveted an aluminum extrusion to the bottom of the case to serve as the axle holder. I think you can figure out the rest from the pics.

In addition to traveling in my pickup, I have delusions of taking this via Amtrak on some long distance trips. I don't think I'd ever trust this box to the airlines.

It's a little heavy, but pretty good to roll around (lifting is tougher). It's also great dust free storage. Pricey? well think of it as 23 sheets of film. :eek:

John

[John Jarosz]

Couple more pics

[Darin Boville]

It has to be said....

There is something pathetic about the heroic artist who sits on his butt all day staring at a glowing screen like some call-center clerk. Welcome to the world of digital photography.

I'm afraid the vision of the heroic artist pushing around a baby stroller at canyon's edge--no matter how obviously useful from a practical standpoint--is of the same parentage.

--Darin

[Scott Edwards]

Don't really care what it looks like I guess, gets the job done.

[sun of sand]

apug consumer reports

lots of stuff
health issues
found baby stroller to be the best fit for me

but it looks so professionally done

[Brian C. Miller]

If you don't want to spend a lot, you can make a really decent trailer using a Wike trailer kit (http://www.wicycle.com/cargo_diy_kit_bicycle_trailer.php). I like mine. There is also an amazing shopping cart trailer.

The Humpalumpa reminded me of something much cheaper: a hand truck (http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=hand+truck&x=0&y=0). There are also garden carts (http://www.lowes.com/SearchCatalogDisplay?storeId=10151&langId=-1&catalogId=10051&N=0&newSearch=true&Ntt=garden+cart&x=0&y=0), including wagons (green, not red) and of course wheelbarrows.

No, none of these will add to the mystique of being a LF photographer. Mules and donkeys are more prosaic, but they won't fit in the back of my Jeep.

[Curt]

These are all interesting ideas but how many are National Park Certified?

[j.e.simmons]

I found my stroller at one of those consignment shops that resells baby things. $35 IIRC.
I've taken it to two National Parks with no trouble. Always refer to it as a stroller.
juan

[Marc B.]

This talk of adapting baby strollers, and the like, got me to thinking about a little red wagon, an all terrain wagon ATW, <grin>

http://www.amazon.com/Radio-Flyer-All-Terrain-Cargo-Wagon/dp/B00000K1VR/ref=sr_1_4?s=toys-and-games&ie=UTF8&qid=1291788129&sr=1-4

[Louis Pacilla]

I'm not sure the pulling of heavy loads up hill would not become unstable on rocks & what not.

The jogging stroller has much larger diameter wheels & you're behind the gear load so better monitoring of gear lose & cart flip over.

That said,,, maybe a member with kids, an off road Radio Flier & a ULF camera gear would give this a try & let us know.

[sergiob]

I haven´t been able to carry my Toyo 810M with only one lens, since 2 won´t fit, in a LowePro Phototrekker, plus a side bag full of filmholders and an Induro tripod appropiate for the task with a Bogen 3047 head on it. No matter how strong or physically fit you are, it is simply not a hiking outfit in rough terrain. Still looking for a solution. Now, the only thing I can only think of, is picking a smaller format like 4x5, when going out into the wild.
I hiked to 16,000 feet with a monorail 4x5, 20 film holders, an 8x10 tripod with a big head and 3 lenses, and it worked. Incredibly strong wind with sleet, snow and hail, made shooting barely possible, though. The next trip I made the same hike I took an RZ67 outfit with 3 lenses and it was a great shooting experience. No contact prints from that trip though. At least I could gasp for air while focusing. LF is not always better.

[John Kasaian]

Pack mule?