Copal 3 on field camera

[Aaron_3437]

Can someone tell me if there are any problems or disadvantages using a copal 3 lens on a 5x7 field camera, particularly the Zheng-Hao 5x7 camera? Thanks in advance.

[Frank Petronio]

You mean other than hanging a three pound weight off the end of an extended wooden vibration platform? A properly firing Copal 3 shutter won't vibrate anymore than a smaller shutter, but since these larger shutters are used with longer lenses, you are setting yourself up for the most vibration possible on the camera. Take precautions - wait for things to settle, dry fire, use a longer, more flexible cable release, add a brace if needed (Bogen Magic Arm), do tests, etc.

[steve simmons]

Make sure the camera can swallow the rear element of the lens and that the size of the whole for the shutter does not take too much of the lens board.

steve simmons

www.viewcamera.com

[Michael Kadillak]

Probably no problems using this shutter on this camera, but why use a #3 shutter on one unless you absolutely have to?

My first large format lens was in a Copal #3 and it has not seen the light of day in 8 years. All of the lenses I use in 5x7 are in smaller shutters with weight and size the dominant criteria and I give up nothing in the performance department. I have a 150mm Graphic Kowa in a Press #1 that you can cover the optics with a 50 cent piece and I have yet to see a corner on a shot with movements and it is sharp as a tack. Spent $100 on it in shutter. There are numerous options for 5x7 lenses that are highly functional for this format without adding unnecessary weight and mass to your set up. At some point you are going to want to get off of the road and when you throw that pack on your shoulders, you do not want to have to drop to your knees in panic.

My $0.02.

[CXC]

What Steve and Michael said.

The size of a #3 is just about as big as a Linhof lensboard, so the controls (in my case) can be interfered with by the board mounting slider. It doesn't fit at all in my Gowland 4x5, due to a ledge extending forward around the edges of the lensboard. The one lens I have in a #3 is a G-Claron 355mm, which is gigantic for its length. However it covers 12x20, which is why I have it. It is a drag to use on cameras that don't make use of its huge coverage.

The Fujinon 450mm is, I believe, the longest lens that comes in a #1. I have it and can recommend it. Remarkably compact. If you need longer, then you will have to deal with the dang #3.

[Scott Walton]

I have a few large old compounds on my Linhof Tec III but they work fine. Think of having an extension made to push the shutter out so your controls are usuable. I have one for my Linhof 360mm and my Imagon that are about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch... just a thought.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I believe the 5x7 Shen Hao takes Sinar sized lensboards that are about 140mm x 140mm. So, size wise, they should accomodate a Copal No. 3 without any problems. Then comes the issue of weight. As others have noted, a Copal No. 3 shutter is considerably heavier than a Copal No. 1 (something like 16 oz. vs. 6 oz, if memory serves). While some lenses in Copal No. 3 shutters can easily weigh in the 3 - 5 pound range, there are also some that weigh considerably less (in the 20 - 24 oz. range). Examples are the 360mm APO Ronar, 450mm Nikkor M and 600mm Fujinon C. These are also fairly compact lenses (considering the size of the shutters) with reasonable filter sizes (58mm, 67mm and 67mm respectively).

Kerry

[Ole Tjugen]

I can see some reasons for using #3 shutters - the same reasons why I still use one of my lenses in a #5 Compound: Max aperture, with corresponding DoF (or lack of same). A #3 Compound fits on a Technika board, but some board adapters (like mine, for Technika board on 5x7" Tech. III) interfere with the aperture setting. No problem for me, since I rarely use the stops between 5.6 and 11 anyway - it's either full open or f:32.

The main problem with lenses in this size shutters is weight. But even a 360/5.5 Tele-xenar shouldn't be heavy enough to cause problems. A 300/4.5 Xenar is a different matter - and a bigger size shutter.

[Aaron_3437]

Thanks alot for all those helpful information. I ordered the Shen Hao 5x7 but it hasn't arrived yet. Looking again at the photograph on their website, it does seemed that the Shen Hao 5x7 uses the Linhof Tech. board, but I may be wrong. I'm actually looking for a budget 10" lens which isn't too difficult to find in Copal #1. It's a question of affordibility at this moment. Really appreciate all the response.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Aaron,

You might want to check with the manufacturer, or your dealer, on the lensboard size. I seem to recall the 5x7 Shen Hao taking larger boards (~140mm), but coming with an adapter to use the smaller Linhof Technika size boards. Unless they changed the design, you could use Linhof boards for your smaller lenses (with the adapter) and the larger boards for lenses in the big No. 3 (or bigger) shutters.

You can get Linhof size boards drilled for No. 3 shutters, but the large diameter of the shutter body may interfere with the adapter mounting hardware. And any lens with a rear diameter larger than 83mm (regardless of shutter size) won't fit through the circular light trap.

Kerry

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

The Shen-Hao should hold a Copal no. 3 just fine, just be aware, as Steve points out, that the rear element of larger lenses may not fit into the camera.

Many, perhaps the majority, of the members of this forum are landscape photographers, and value portability and sharpness over all else. I am not one of these, and use large shutters with fast lenses more often than not. There are certain precautions you must take when using heavy shutters--make sure that the camera is well supported, and that when you use front movements you lock them down tightly, so as not to allow the lens to move.

That said, I find it difficult to believe that you could find a lens in a modern Copal 3 which is cheaper than the equivalent focal length in a Copal 1.

[Bob Salomon]

"You can get Linhof size boards drilled for No. 3 shutters, but the large diameter of the shutter body may interfere with the adapter mounting hardware."

Copal 3 shutters fit on the Linhof Technika lensboards for the IV, V and Master as well as the TK cameras as long as the hole in the board is positioned properly.

The only issue is that the rear element fit through the hole in the body and that the shape of the rear cell does not hang up when mounted in the hole (240mm Apo Sironar S for example) If the rear cell does not allow the board to fit and lock properly on the front standard we mill a new hole slighly higher on the board to let the lensboard latch closed. This is a problem with very few lenses.

[Aaron_3437]

Thanks for all the great advice.

Kerry, I will check with the manufacturer in Shanghai about the adapter. The website did show the adapter on the camera front. It's good you brought this matter to light. Just great! I already have a 150mm & 305mm G Claron on the smaller Linhof Tech. board, so the lensboard adapter is a must in my case.

To all, I've decided to look for a copal #1 lens. Most likely a 240mm G Claron if it stays within budget. Lens weight, size, stability, cost, etc. do matter. Today, I went to the camera shop and for the first time, saw a Copal #3 shutter. The size of it just gave me a BIG fright. I know what you mean now.

THANK A MILLION!