Zone VI tripod slippage

[Scott Schroeder]

I'd like some ideas on how to make the damn think not slip.
The knobs at the bottom of the legs are fine enough.
However, the top ones connecting to the head just can't stay tight enough.
The tripod is plenty stout enough to my cameras/lenses.
But that inability to fully lock scares the crap out of me, especially if I'm going low and the legs are sprawled out.
I have a ries a250 on the top.
Any ideas what's the best way to do this? Lock washers?
Thanks for the help!

I grabbed a photo off the internet to show you the knob/joint I'm talking about (blue arrow).
http://www.schroederworks.com/Pics/ZoneVITripod.jpg

[Gem Singer]

In the past, I owned two Zone VI tripods like yours. had the same problem.

Replaced those smooth silver washers with black lock washers from the hardware store.

Problem solved.

[Scott Schroeder]

Hey Thanks!
I'm seeing three different kinds...
internal teeth
external teeth
split washer

Do you think it matters? I was thinking about going with the internal teeth. They 'look' like they'd be most effective in this instance.

[Gem Singer]

I used split washers made of high carbon steel so that they wouldn't bite into the wood.

They were thicker than the original washers.

I replaced all of the washers, top and bottom, on both tripods.

[paulr]

I think those top knobs are just to add enough stiffness to keep the legs from flopping around. You're never going to actually lock them solidly with those knobs. The tripod gets locked in place by the feet being planted.

[Scott Schroeder]

I hear ya Paul. It just doesn't work that way on a surface like a side walk....
I'd swap it for a Ries if'n they weren't so pricey.
Maybe I'll ditch the knobs altogether and come up with my own locking system.

[Peter Lewin]

I believe that's why Fred Picker added a string "spread control" to later models. He put a "u-shaped" bracket on each leg, and ran a string with a tension-lock through the brackets. By adjusting the length of the resulting loop with the tension-lock, one limited the maximum outward spread of the legs. You could easily add the same to your tripod. (Sorry, don't have a photo of this minor modification to post, if you can find any of the later ZoneVI catalogs, you would see the modification on the tripods page.)

[Gem Singer]

Fred Picker designed the wooden Zone VI tripods for use in the field.

He even added a metal protrusion so that the user could push the spikes into the ground with his foot.

I replaced both wood Zone VI tripods with Bogen-Manfrotto aluminum tripods equipped with rubber feet, retractible spikes, and adjustable leg-spread locks.

[Drew Wiley]

I finally gave away the damn thing to an amateur astronomer. But I replaced all the bolts and washers with stainless steel,
and vaguely recall using stainless lockwashers in there too, also some industrial nylon shims. Once I got ahold of a Ries tripod, I never used the Zone VI again. It was just a relatively so-so survey tripod slightly yet poorly modified.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Picker wasn't the best judge of functionality. His earlier tripods were minimally modified surveyors' pods, but even those had spread limiters such as a nylon rope attached to the legs. Later versions - well, he just plain forgot. Make the same limiter and be happy.

See this: http://www.digoliardi.net/skc1.jpg, an early Picker 'pod which I used for my 8x10" sky camera. The line is not tight here because the leg spikes were dug into the earth.


Fred Picker designed the wooden Zone VI tripods for use in the field.

Picker did not design a damn thing: he appropriated existing products and relabeled them.
.

[Peter Gomena]

You can find the metal loops at a good hardware store or at a sporting goods store that deals in boating supplies.

[Gem Singer]

Jac Stafford,

How about "Picker INTENDED that his Zone VI tripods were to be to used in the field".

Is that statement more to your liking?

[Scott Schroeder]

The lock washers helped but the support 'rope' is the ticket.
I have some ultra strong non stretching cord that did the job nicely.
I used a nite-ize figure 9 for quick tightening and loosening.
Works awesome, even at low heights on a slippery wooden floor. ;-)

http://schroederworks.com/Pics/KoronaZone.jpg

[Jac@stafford.net]

Jac Stafford,

How about "Picker INTENDED that his Zone VI tripods were to be to used in the field".

Is that statement more to your liking?

We will never know what he intended. It is simply apparent that he did not care. It is like his pimped out view cameras which look more at home in a big brass marching band.

[Peter Gomena]

I've owned my Zone VI tripod for 30 years and my Zone VI 4x5 camera for 23. Both have served me well. The tripod is quite solid in the field, even with the 8x10 camera I once used on it. I duct tape some rubber tips to the sharp metal feet if I'm shooting on smooth surfaces. The rope adds stability for low angles.

Fred was a savvy marketer, but his products were very good at a time when it was not easy to find new LF field gear. He was an evangelist for large format when few others were. I'm glad he made a decent living at it.

[paulr]

I use mine on sidewalks and asphalt and factory floors 90% of the time. Slipping has only threatened to be an issue on smooth floors, and then I rely on the rope. Those spikes actually grip textured surfaces really well.

Trying to lock the legs at the hinge is a losing proposition ... there's just too much mechanical advantage there. If you did find a way to lock them I'd be worried about something breaking.

[Jac@stafford.net]

One tip for the very large Zone VI tripod (http://www.digoliardi.net/skc1.jpg), which is a modified surveyors tripod.

The spiked ends can be removed. I had to use a mild impact wrench. Once removed, a 3/8" bolt can be threaded into the end. An alternative to that is to stick a small rubber toy balls over the spikes.


Peter wrote: "Fred was a savvy marketer, but his products were very good at a time when it was not easy to find new LF field gear. He was an evangelist for large format when few others were. I'm glad he made a decent living at it. "

True. Thank you for restoring my recollection of the time. I'm glad for him, too.

[Peter Lewin]

Since the OP's question about controlling leg spread has been answered in a number of posts in this thread, I figured I could add another Fred Picker observation without feeling that the thread has been hijacked. While some of Fred's items were simple rebrands, a large number of ZoneVI products, especially for the darkroom, were original, and some have not been bettered. Dr. Fred Horowitz designed a number of the electronics which incorporated feedback, such as the cold light head stabilizers, and the compensating enlarging and developing timers. I have all of these in my darkroom, and they were not rebrands, but new developments. I recently spoke with Richard Ritter, who mentioned that he designed the chassis for the ZoneVI enlargers, while Dr. Horowitz designed the heads. I think Dr. Horowitz was also responsible for the modifications to the Pentax spot meters. I wonder if Fred himself designed the film washers, they were also original to ZoneVI. I suspect that if we looked at all the ZoneVI branded items, it would turn out that a majority were developed by ZoneVI, and only a minority were rebranded items.

[Scott Schroeder]

Yea I ditched the spikes and put on rubber feet. They are just more useful for where I tend to use the pod.
That rope is a wonderful thing.... I feel MUCH better about leaving my 4B lingering there on the camera while I'm getting a plate from the dark box.

[Colin Graham]

I have the same irritation with on-axis locks for swings and tilts on a camera- it's really difficult to securely tighten any pivot point directly on axis. Even worse with tripods- with a 4-6' lever working against the locking point, some mechanical off-axis locking system like Ries seems necessary. Otherwise the wood just gets crushed with progressive tightening of the knob. Some sort of meshing teeth like the tilt knuckle on cymbal stands might work, but then the weak point would just shift to wherever these gears are attached to the wood. I've made a few wood tripods and this problem always nags.

Crutch tips or those rubber stool leg covers do work really well for smooth surfaces. I made some that slip over the spikes, using some nylon sleeve bearings that press fit inside the tips, then boring the sleeves out so they friction fit on the spikes.