Mystery ~210mm ~F/8 lens that covers 11X14?

[sanking]

At a commercial site I won't mention I saw for sale a ~210mm ~F8 lens that is described as small and covers 11X14. It is said that the only other lenses that will cover 11X14 with such quality are the Schneider 210mm S-A and 210mm SSXL and the 200mm Grandagon, which as many know are rather huge and and heavy lenses. The seller does not give the name of the lens.

Any speculation on what lens this is?

[Francis Abad]

210 Computar Apo-Symmetrigon????????

[Francis Abad]

210 Goerz Hypergon perhaps if it exists.

[Arne Croell]

The same question, related to the very same ad at Glen Evans (glennview.com) web site came up 3 years ago, although no definite answer was found at that time, check: <a href="http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0032K3"> http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0032K3 <a/>

Apparently, he hasn't sold the lens in the last 3 years.

[Doug Dolde]

Why not just ask the seller?

[Arne Croell]

Doug, because he won't tell, this is the full text:

" ~210mm ~F8 lens, coated, new all black Copal #1, covers 11X14, small, Mint, $1600. The only other similar focal length lenses that will cover 11X14 with such quality are the Schneider 210 S-A and 210 Super SymmarXL and the 200 Grandagon, and they are 6-7# heavier, 20 times larger, and much more expensive. Because this lens' capabilities are known only by a few very knowledgeable photographers, and although rare, the lens does come onto the market occasionally (I've bought 2 in the last 10 years), and I don't want any more competition than necessary--I will not list the lens' name. If you buy it from me you'll know, but you won't have any need for another. 25% restocking charge if returned. If you want to see for yourself what the lens can do, send $50 for 11X14 contact print made with this lens"

[Darin Cozine]

Ive seen similar claims on the agfa repromaster/staeble ultragon (same lens). These are process lenses which came in 150mm f9 and 210mm f9 versions. Without the deceptive advertizing, these usually sell for under $50 each. I bet that is what the 'mistery lens' is.

I've thought about buying one just for fun, but the 'if it looks too good to be true..' addage has allways held me back.

Maybee someone who has tried the lens can comment on the coverage and sharpness.. it may be decent lens, or it may be utter crap.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

The fact that he has written that the lens is "rare" would suggest that it is NOT a Repromaster or Ultragon, which are very common on eBay.

For what is worth, I have bought and sold equipment to Glen, and have found him friendly, very honest, but quite expensive.

[tim atherton]

The (small/compact/copal 1 fitting) Computar 210 f9/6.8 covers 11x14 doesn't it?

[jerry brodkey]

I have a friend who bought one from Glenn and he says it is a computar. The lens is the same as a Kowa 210 and I think it is really an f/9. I'll have to ask my friend about the discrepancy f/8 vs. f/9.

[sanking]

"I have a friend who bought one from Glenn and he says it is a computar. The lens is the same as a Kowa 210 and I think it is really an f/9. I'll have to ask my friend about the discrepancy f/8 vs. f/9." "I have a friend who bought one from Glenn and he says it is a computar. The lens is the same as a Kowa 210 and I think it is really an f/9. I'll have to ask my friend about the discrepancy f/8 vs. f/9."

I am fairly confident that the 210 f/9 Computar will cover 11X14 and 7X17 as several people whose opionions I trust own this lens have told me that it does. That would no surprise me since I use a 300mm f/9 Computar on the 12X20 format it covers with a full three inches of rise . However, the lens at the site is listed not as an f/9 but as an f/8. I mean, surely this fellow who is obviously very expert on lenses, is not going to make that kind of mistake with a lens that is being sold for $1600? Or might there be some meaning in the ~ before the aperture that I don't understand? It did pass my mind that he might be listing it this way to suggest that the aperture is about f/8, when it could really be f/9 and a Computar in an attempt to throw folks off track.

Another point is that the Kowa 210mm f/9 lens does not appear to be the same lens as the 210 f/9 Computar. I have used one of these lenses myself and it missed the 7X17 format, which is almost the same as 11X14, by a lot.

[Michael Kadillak]

Interesting dialog. I have heard many knowledgable folks talk about a general premise that the same Japanese company produces the lenses under the name Kowa and Computar and just took it at face value. From what you observed Sandy, it appears that this may not be the case. I would be curious as to what lens design or production difference results from such a disparity in coverage at the same focal length?

As open and honest as this forum tends to be about information, I find it terribly troubling that anyone would withhold pertinent information about a product for sale and play these kind of games ($50 for a print and a 25% restocking fee). Call me old fashioned, but one "sale" no matter how lucrative will not singularly make a career, but it sure can tarnish an image.

Just my $0.02.

[tim atherton]

The Kowa covers around 380/90mm @f22 (great for 8x10) while the Computar is supposed to cover around 460mm @f22 (?)

I've seen the Computars in a shutter go for anywhere from 220.00 to 450.00 on ebay (and unmounted Kowa's from 65.00 to 250.00+)

Interestingly, the Kowa becomes a f6.8 lens once it's mounted in a shutter - I don't think the Computar does the same?

[Michael S. Briggs]

"~" means approximate, so Mr. Evans means that the focal length is about 210 mm and the aperture about f8. This would be a consistent with an f9 lens. He is being vague about the parameters to hide the identity of the lens. Much of the price is for learning the identify of the lens. If you don't like the terms offered, you don't have to spend your money.

[tim atherton]

BTW - I just saw a very nice Computar 210 in barrel come up on ebay a couple of days ago from someone who didn't really know what the lens was for - it was up for a day and someone obviously made him an offer he couldn't refuse....

[Jim Galli]

It's very definitely not the Ultragon / Repromaster. I tested 210's by Konica, Schneider G-Claron, JML, giant 213mm East German thing, Kowa, and Repromaster on my 11X14. All of the same "scene" The giant 213mm is an f8 if I recall and it would cover 10X12. All the others pooped out about 376mm plus or minus 5. The Repromaster / Ultragon was the poorest performer of the group. Surprisingly the JML was one of the best. The G-Claron only finished 2nd out of 6. Konica, Kowa, and the big 213 were about equal in quality and drop off. Kowa / Computar / Kyvytar went through so many changes as time progressed that I've given up trying to catalog what is what. I have a Kyvytar factory mounted in Copal 1 that is f6.8, and looks interchangeable with it's earlier Computar f9 cousin, also factory mounted in Copal 1. Maybe that's why our friend says ~f8. Right smack in the middle. Tomorrow if I get a chance, I'll put both of them on the 1114 and expose a piece of print paper with each at infinity.

[Doug Dolde]

Check this site for pricing:

http://www.photographics.com/index.cfm?sid=30369920040602032114.855205939