CF vs Aluminum, 4 vs 3 leg

[Noah B]

Hey guys, I'm in the market for a new tripod for a 3 pound 4x5 with a lens, probably adding up to maybe 3.5 lbs total. I'm looking at Induro tripods right now, specifically the AT and CT 213 models. The only difference between the two is .8 pounds and $200 more dollars. My main use for this setup is an all day walk around type gig. I'm planning to put all this in a backpack and walk around for hours at a time, and wondering if those .8 pounds will make a huge difference. Any input on a lightweight tripod for a camera of this weight? Thanks!

[LaurentB]

My Tachihara 4x5 feels fine on a Velbon CF645, it is about the same weight as your camera + lens setup.

The tripod is quite compact and sturdy enough, so it is my favourite for hiking.

[C. D. Keth]

You might look at feisol CF tripods. I've had one for several years and I like it a lot.

[ROL]

...I'm planning to put all this in a backpack and walk around for hours at a time, and wondering if those .8 pounds will make a huge difference. Any input on a lightweight tripod for a camera of this weight? Thanks!

Well yeah! Particularly if you're no longer 20, every ounce begins to count, and you could carry one of these (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwIWZ9H3ZU) (:D) in place of that weight. But $200 extra would tempt even me to say FU to the tripod manufacturer and look elsewhere (Induro seems to be becoming a premium brand, a la Gitzo).

I have heavier camera systems on lighter tripods. It's not so much the weight, as long as the tripod is rated for it, but the leveraged forces when the camera is racked out, and the addition of wind affecting stability. Those are good reasons why older heavier tripods are favored by the older and heavier (;)), as long as they don't have to carry them! But, with care and the occasional use of a weighted bag on the bottom hook of the tripod's center column, a much lighter unit wins out when carried. Generally, the fewer leg sections the better, again the caveat being that the closer the collapsed unit fits to your backpack's height, the easier will be the carry. This will most likely mean 4 leg sections (for a normal LF capable tripod) for a 30 to 60 liter backpack.

[Drew Wiley]

Try to get ahold of one you can actually test by putting your camera on it. Saving half a pound is sometimes not worth it.
Stability-wise carbon fiber will save you some weight compared to aluminum, but otherwise they can differ in terms of
durability. Gitzos are nice but pricey. Feisol is a decent quality and more affordable. Four section units will collapse shorter -
important if you ever need to fit one into an airline carry-on.

[Cletus]

I was doing some recent researching and shopping for tripods and I actually bought the Induro CT214 and also the AT413 models, thinking I'd found the ONE. Both returned. My take on the CT214 is, it's a really nicely made, high quality tripod, almost identical in specs to the Gitzo 2 series, center column Montaineers. When directly compared side to side, however, the Gitzo GT2541 is FAR more stable than the Induro CT214. It's unfortunate, as I liked - and even purchased - the CT214, but returned it immediately after comparing to the Gitzo. The Induro, even without the bottom (4th) extensions extended does not to me seem to be very good at all at dampening vibrations. Nor was it 'torsionally' very rigid. Extending the center column is out of the question. And it cannot be removed and replaced with a platform on the Induro as it can on the Gitzo.

With that said, the CT214, by its load rating alone, would be more than enough tripod for a 4lb camera, it's just not my idea of a stable, almost vibration free tripod as CF is supposed to be. I'm using much heavier cameras and for the same price I bought a Feisol 3471, which is probably equal to, if not MORE stable then my Gitzo Ser. 3 Systematic.

Last, I also bought (and returned) the Induro AT413 aluminum tripod. It's HUGE, heavy and is far more then I needed, or wanted to carry. Good price at a little over $200 though, just a beast with a center column I'd never use.

[Ari]

The 3-section tripods will always outdo their 4-section counterparts in the torsional strength department, i.e., they twist much less.
This is a fine statistic for the number-crunchers, but in the real world, most well-made 4-section tripods will do a fine job of stabilizing your equipment and reducing vibration.
4-sections also collapse to a smaller size (usually), more practical for the traveling photographer.
In Al vs. CF, aluminum wins the stability category, while CF tends to absorb vibrations.

If you're strong and/or young enough, the 0.8 pounds won't make much difference to you, especially if your other gear is not too weighty, so you can put those $200 towards film or Reese's Pieces.
If you hike a lot, maybe you'd want to pay extra for the weight savings, but if you're an urban shooter, save your money.
I carried an Induro AT413 on my shoulder all over town while lugging my camera gear in a separate roller case.
And Induro make very fine tripods for the price, I think you're on the good path there.

[Drew Wiley]

Another advantage to carbon is that your bare fingers won't stick to it like to metal in freezing weather. But carry a mesh bag
to hang rocks or whatever other detritus (like DLSR's) necessary to stabilize you camera in windy conditions or on spongy ground. But if you're a twenty-something and worried about half a pound one way or the other, you might want to check
yourself prematurely into a rest home.

[Ari]

What Drew said, except that many, if not all, Induro models feature foam wrap on all three tripod legs.
My aluminum Induro is such a model.

[cowanw]

have a look at this
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum146/117033-tripod-ball-head-promotion.html

[Drew Wiley]

Ordinary plumbing snap-on pipe insulation can be put on anything round to create a thermal cushion, but might affect how
tightly a tripod folds. But one thing I have learned about ultra-light carbon tubes per se is that, although they might be
just as stiff as three-ply tubes, they are far more susceptible to impact. In other words, they might hold almost as much
dead-weight load, but the leg might fail if seriously dented. A friend of mine learned about that the hard way last summer
when two of his Gitzo 2-ply legs outright broke off. By contrast, my older 3-ply Gitzo CF has survived many such incidents
with no issue, and is only half a pound heavier.

[Lenny Eiger]

Love my Gitzo. The way the legs lock while extending or putting them back is great.

I carry my tripod and camera in my hand so I like it light. Putting it in the backpack makes taking a shot much longer.

Lenny

[Noah B]

Thanks for all the input guys, I decided to go with the Induro AT213. .8 pounds isn't a lot, plus I got a lightweight ball head to go with it. Should be a good setup!

[nonuniform]

You might look at feisol CF tripods. I've had one for several years and I like it a lot.

I had a Feisol. It lasted about 3 years until one of the legs came unglued at the base. Bought a Gitzo, as I should have done in the first place, except I paid an extra $350 to find that out.

[evan clarke]

I had a Feisol. It lasted about 3 years until one of the legs came unglued at the base. Bought a Gitzo, as I should have done in the first place, except I paid an extra $350 to find that out.

Yep, I have a Gitzo 3540xls and if I had bought it first I wouldn't have spent money on around a dozen others. I have the same Gitzo in aluminum (should have gotten the cf) and the Varbon is much more rigid. I use it with everything up to my 11x14..

[Brian Ellis]

I had a Feisol. It lasted about 3 years until one of the legs came unglued at the base. Bought a Gitzo, as I should have done in the first place, except I paid an extra $350 to find that out.

I've had a Feisol for about 3 years and a Gitzo 1325 for about 15. One of the legs on the Gitzo came unglued at the top several years ago. The Feisol is fine (though obviously not nearly as old as the Gitzo). I don't mention this to argue with you but rather because your experience with your Feisol may not be a typical problem.

[Ari]

Even the best companies crank out the occasional dud.
I've had great luck in buying tripods, all of them have performed admirably, and never broke or needed repair.
I've owned cheap Chinese CF tripods and top-of-the-line Gitzos, and they've all been great.
Just wish I had similar luck when buying cameras; I always find the problem ones.
My wife always tells me "You really love to tinker" :)

[Shootar401]

What about a Manfrotto 3001 or 3011? its aluminium so its much, much more durable than carbon fibre, and won't shatter if you drop it. They can be had rather cheaply and are great sticks.

[Drew Wiley]

There are a number of types of carbon fiber tube. Some of it can be remarkably tough, but given the topic of tripods, there
is always a tradeoff between durability and price/weight. If you've been following any of the news leading up to the America's
Cup races, you might have noticed how they kept trying to get those yachts lighter and lighter for speed, until one outright
collapsed. I've been marginally involved in all that per the fabrication equipment. I purchased the very first Gitzo CF tripod
model they ever offered, modified it for view camera use, and it's been thru hell in the high country and will probably last
the rest of my life. I notice the newer models are generally thinner tube stock, so lighter but less durable. My big Feisol CF
tripod for 8x10 is also quite thin, so I'm careful not to get the legs seriously dented or gouged. If I want to fend off a Sasquatch, I'll use my big wooden Ries!

[C. D. Keth]

I had a Feisol. It lasted about 3 years until one of the legs came unglued at the base. Bought a Gitzo, as I should have done in the first place, except I paid an extra $350 to find that out.

My feisol is on 6 years and counting with no signs of any problem. I don't know which experience, yours or mine, is typical.

[Drew Wiley]

Carbon tubing is easy to reglue using an appropriate epoxy. No big deal.

[nonuniform]

I've had a Feisol for about 3 years and a Gitzo 1325 for about 15. One of the legs on the Gitzo came unglued at the top several years ago. The Feisol is fine (though obviously not nearly as old as the Gitzo). I don't mention this to argue with you but rather because your experience with your Feisol may not be a typical problem.

Yes, very true, it's hard to manufacture a 100% success rate. Basically, any anecdotal review should be read with a "your mileage may vary" point of view.

[nonuniform]

My feisol is on 6 years and counting with no signs of any problem. I don't know which experience, yours or mine, is typical.

No idea. Personally, I prefer the Gitzo GT3530LS that I bought regardless of what happened to the Feisol. So, there's that. :)

[Drew Bedo]

"Walking around" urban shooting—not hiking off? Whatever your final kit, consider a set of heavy duty luggage wheels. You will be able to bring along amenities like clothing,food and water . . .maybe a folding stool to sit on (or stand on).

[Jeff Keller]

Years ago I bought a 3 section CF Gitzo. I really wish I had got the 4 section version. The smaller collapsed size would be enjoyed. I haven't had the same tripod in both 3 and 4 section versions so my impressions aren't scientific but I haven't felt my 4 section tripod has lost rigidity due to the 4th section. I doubt that any significant torsional rigidity is lost by going to 4 sections: the bending force should be greatest near the head. Think of a lever. The force far from the load is small compared to next to the load.

[Kirk Gittings]

Didn't he ask about 4 leg vs. 3 leg. I have yet to see what purpose the 4 leg tripods actually serve for field work except building your biceps more.

[Drew Wiley]

Kirk - the 4-leg versions aren't necessarily any heavier because the final section tends to be smaller diameter. They can be very nice indeed if one needs to store them sideways atop a backpack or in an airline carry-on. I put mine right under the
top backpack flap so it can be quickly accessed in the mtns, when all the rest of the pack is loaded with whatever, and all kinds of other things are attached to it. For dayhiking I just strap a wooden Ries to the outside of the pack, but it's effectively more than twice the weight of a comparable height CF tripod.

[Kirk Gittings]

Dude.....4 legged not 4 sections.

like this Novaflex is what I am referring to:

93016

[Cletus]

That's a.....a...QUADAPOD!!! CooooowUL! That's only for REALLY BIG DSLRS! Hehehehehe

[Rick A]

Hey guys, I'm in the market for a new tripod for a 3 pound 4x5 with a lens, probably adding up to maybe 3.5 lbs total. I'm looking at Induro tripods right now, specifically the AT and CT 213 models. The only difference between the two is .8 pounds and $200 more dollars. My main use for this setup is an all day walk around type gig. I'm planning to put all this in a backpack and walk around for hours at a time, and wondering if those .8 pounds will make a huge difference. Any input on a lightweight tripod for a camera of this weight? Thanks!

I purchased the AT-213 leg set (AKB-2) a couple of years ago, with a ball head, and love the pod. I soon realized the ball head too fishy with my Calumet cc-401, so I swapped out for an Induro PHT-2 3-way pan head. It came with a carry bag plus the strap can clip directly to the legs. My only other mod was to buy the spike feet to replace the rubber ones for field work. The legs and head can be purchased as a set for reasonable money in either the CF or alloy versions, with either ball or pan heads, as the adventure series.

[Drew Wiley]

Ooops ... my misunderstanding, Kirk. Don't think I've ever actually seen one of those - only in ads. The four leg formula
seems to work pretty well for horses.... but otherwise ...???

[Jeff Keller]

Thanks for the picture of the 4 legged tripod. For people who hang weight off from the center of the tripod (macro from a camera on a bar) there is probably slightly less tendency for the tripod to tip over. It seems like the extra leg would make it harder to get close so the advantage would be nil.

Jeff Keller

[Ari]

Dude.....4 legged not 4 sections.

like this Novaflex is what I am referring to:

93016

The OP might have said "4 vs 3 leg" by accident, when he really meant "4 vs 3 section".
The two tripods he was considering are both three legged, and he made no reference to any 4-legged tripod.

[Drew Wiley]

Oh garsh, now I am confused.... are we talking about a four-legged tripod with three sections per leg, or four sections; or a
three-legged tripod with three or four, or maybe a different number of sections per each leg (that would be versatile), or an inevitable five-legged tripod somebody will patent next year, or something like my backpacking buddy had last summer - a one-legged tripod plus two stumps with pine sticks duct-taped on ...?