Why Fujinon lenses are cheap compared to others?

[rustyair]

A lot of them are under $300.

I was wondering if there's reason why Fujinon lenses are cheap compare to others? Thanks,

[Cletus]

I've wondered that very same thing myself - most of my lenses are Fujinons - and it sure ain't 'cause they aren't great lenses! I suspect that the Germans command higher prices more because of their pedigree than anything else. Some would probably argue they are of better quality in a general sense, but Fujinon's are of superb quality in their own right, and AFAIK they are not subject to Schneideritis, balsam separation and some of the other issues that often plague the older Germans.

Good question, but for my part I'll count myself lucky and buy an extra box or two of film for choosing to "settle" with Fujinon lenses!

[Daniel Stone]

I LOVE LOVE LOVE my Fuji's! All four of em :)!

[MIke Sherck]

Marketing, I suspect. I have to say that I'm not unhappy with this situation. I've gotten a lot of excellent lenses at very reasonable prices.

Mike

[Alan Gales]

I own a Fuji 250mm f/6.7 lens which covers 8x10 with adequate coverage for movements. I bought it off Ebay for just under $300.00 including shipping. What a bargain that was!

I think it has a lot to do with name. You can buy late model Caltars which are rebadged Rodenstocks and Schneiders cheaper than regular Rodenstocks and Schneiders. They are the same lenses!

[David Karp]

For many years Fuji did have an official U.S. distributor. They were brought in by a few retailers. As a result, they were not as well known. Check out the prices of some Fujinons, like the 300A. They are highly sought after, and hold their value well.

[johnmsanderson]

Fuji 600C ain't cheap anymore.

[Lachlan 717]

It's simple: the trouble with common sense is that it's not too common!

Brilliant lenses.

[John NYC]

, but Fujinon's are of superb quality in their own right, and AFAIK they are not subject to Schneideritis, balsam separation and some of the other issues that often plague the older Germans.


Fujinons can get little white dots around where the lenses elements meet the housing. The one Fujinon I own now that I bought from a member here has this. (He didn't mention it during the sale of course... This place is definitely going downhill in terms of quality descriptions in my experience.) But it doesn't affect image quality.

I have owned several Fujinons and I think they are great, but I will say the two Schneider plasmats I have owned have a look about them that is just slightly more special. It is hard to describe. My 150 APO Symmar was my best late model lens of all in terms of the "look" it got. I still have a 210 that is a beauty.

[Ken Lee]

Fujinons can get little white dots around where the lenses elements meet the housing.

I'd be curious to read if anyone else has seen this. I haven't.

Contrast aside, you might find this comparison (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/BokehComparison.html) of several lenses (including Fujinon but not Schneider) interesting, with regard to how different designs "render" the image. Once stopped down to f/8 or smaller, the differences are hard to distinguish. The only exception is the 210 Heliar, which exhibited focus shift. I'm not saying that there are no differences, only that they are not always as blatant as some people suggest, or even discernible for that matter.

[Oren Grad]

Fujinons can get little white dots around where the lenses elements meet the housing.

Do you mean in the glass or in the wall of the cell? If the latter, it sounds a bit like so-called "Schneideritis", which is pretty common.

[Michael Graves]

I currently own several Fujinon lenses, and the only times I ever sold one was when I came across a better example of one. And when I accidentally sold my 135, thinking I'd somehow duplicated it...only to find out that the "duplicate" was a 125. I said more than a few bad words that day!

90mm SWA f8: I replaced a Schneider 90mm f8 with this and discovered that the Fujinon had a slightly larger image circle and somewhat higher contrast. It is significantly less prone to flare.

125mm W f5.6: The culprit mentioned above. A very superb lens that just doesn't quite cut it for 5x7. It covers the negative just barely, but offers no room for movements. It is so tiny it stays in my backpack kit for the Chamonix 4x5.

120mm SWA f5.6: This one goes with my 5x7 kit when I take it out. It is just short of covering 8x10, but I have cheated a bit with it by focusing on something about 30 feet away, and then stopping down to f22. Depth of field is sufficient to get me out to infinity that way, and I have about 1" of spare change for a rising front.

150mm Fujinar 6.3: I've taken many photos with this, but my one complaint is that it is probably TOO sharp and contrasty. For may pictorial shots, I use a 150mm Tessar. Perhaps a more modern Fujinon would serve me better.

180mm W 5.6: I've probably used this lens more than any other Fuji, with the possible exception of the 210. It is a great standard lens for 5x7 and if I don't use movements at all, I can squeak out a wide angle shot on 8x10. All in all, perhaps my favorite lens I own.

210 W f5.6: This is the one that covers 8x10 with room to spare. It used to be my most heavily used lens until the 180 came along. I would say 80% of my 5x7 was shot with this lens before then. I still use it a LOT.

250 W f6.7: Outstanding contrast and sharpness and covers 8x10 with room to spare. I generally don't take this out except when shooting 8x10, because I have a love affair with my 10" Commercial Ektar on 5x7.

300mm W f 5.6: An excellent standard lens for 8x10. I bought a 12" Commercial Ektar, thinking that since I liked the 10" so much, I'd like it. I sold it a week later for a $30.00 loss. Such is the cost of experimentation.

Perhaps someday when I have time, I'll scan up an example from each lens and post it in a separate thread. I'm not as good a photographer as many of you, but the results should be passable.

[jb7]

I'd be curious to read if anyone else has seen this. I haven't.



http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Fuji-Fujinon-WS-250mm-f-6-7-lens-Seiko-shutter-TOYO-VIEW-lensboard-/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/czUAAMXQBwlRVFrh/$T2eC16N,!yUE9s6NDMq2BRVFrgu+I!~~60_3.JPG

[John NYC]

Do you mean in the glass or in the wall of the cell? If the latter, it sounds a bit like so-called "Schneideritis", which is pretty common.

Wall.

[Jody_S]

Why Fujinon lenses are cheap compare to others?

I don't know, but shhhh! Don't tell anyone. At least not until I buy 2 more.

[Jim Noel]

Fujinons can get little white dots around where the lenses elements meet the housing. The one Fujinon I own now that I bought from a member here has this. (He didn't mention it during the sale of course... This place is definitely going downhill in terms of quality descriptions in my experience.) But it doesn't affect image quality.

I have owned several Fujinons and I think they are great, but I will say the two Schneider plasmats I have owned have a look about them that is just slightly more special. It is hard to describe. My 150 APO Symmar was my best late model lens of all in terms of the "look" it got. I still have a 210 that is a beauty.

Schneider lenses have the same problem - often called Schneideritis.

[Drew Wiley]

Regarding new lenses, an awful lot depends on the exchange rates in play. Right now, new Fuji lenses are quite expensive.
Even used ones are pretty steep if they're coveted due to light weight (C's) or some other rare characteristic (discontinued focal lengths of A's). What are very common and well priced on the used market are 4x5 plasmats like 210's and shorter,
simply because there are a lot of them available. Optically they tend to be superb. At times, it was the German lenses which were cheap, and there's a glut of used 210 Symmar S lenses on the market too. A number a years ago I flipped my German lenses when their currency was high, and got more cash from these well-used lenses than I originally paid for them, and bought new Fuji lenses. This was simply a game relative to which currency was strong and which weak. Auction pricing
tends to go in its own cycles, again related to immediate supply and demand issue and not necessarily quality. You just have
to time things correctly and be patient. But there is certainly nothing inferior about Fuji lenses compared to German ones.

[Cletus]

http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Fuji-Fujinon-WS-250mm-f-6-7-lens-Seiko-shutter-TOYO-VIEW-lensboard-/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/czUAAMXQBwlRVFrh/$T2eC16N,!yUE9s6NDMq2BRVFrgu+I!~~60_3.JPG

See this link for Fujinon Lens info. This appears to be the "Original" single-coated 250/6.7 W with the 398mm IC. I think these are all "WS" lenses, but the "S" was usually omitted from the filter ring engraving for some reason. Maybe this link will shed some light. I'd bet the lens you pictured is a tad rare. I have the similar 250/6.7 (which I LOVE), but doesn't have the S in the name.

Anyway, this is a great link to quite a bit of info on Fujinon large format lenses...

http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byseries.htm

[jb7]

Unfortunately that's not mine, I just came across the picture the other day and was surprised to see the schneideritis-

I do have a single coated 210, possibly the best value lens I ever bought- though the prices seem to have gone up since I got it-

[John NYC]

My old 210 W I sold here had the same issue as my current 135mm NW.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?t=95367

[tenderobject]

guys! i had 1 of my fuji 90 sw shutter screw gone. anyone know where to get one? right now i put a black tape on it lol

i love fujinon! my next lens would be a fujinon again!

[Lachlan 717]

See this link for Fujinon Lens info. This appears to be the "Original" single-coated 250/6.7 W with the 398mm IC. I think these are all "WS" lenses, but the "S" was usually omitted from the filter ring engraving for some reason. Maybe this link will shed some light. I'd bet the lens you pictured is a tad rare. I have the similar 250/6.7 (which I LOVE), but doesn't have the S in the name.


Is it in a Seiko shutter? I seem to remember that the S was a reference to the shutter.

[Paul Ewins]

My 250/6.7 (around 120 units earlier than the one shown) has a more restrained version of the paint loss on the cell - a lot of small dots. It too has FUJINON.W S engraved on it and is in a Seiko shutter. Unfortunately it didn't come with a retaining ring and the Seiko shutter is an odd-ball size so it hasn't made its way onto any of my cameras yet.

[tenderobject]

would this affects the images taken with this lens?


http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Fuji-Fujinon-WS-250mm-f-6-7-lens-Seiko-shutter-TOYO-VIEW-lensboard-/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/czUAAMXQBwlRVFrh/$T2eC16N,!yUE9s6NDMq2BRVFrgu+I!~~60_3.JPG

[Drew Wiley]

It's unlikely to affect image quality. I've developed a very tiny amt of Schneideritis on a Fuji 125W, but never on any of my other Fuji lenses, which get far more use. I've got a bad case of it on a G-Claron I've owned for a long time and it doesn't seem to have any effect. It's basically just a failure of the edge blackening paint due to expansion/contraction stresses over time. Sometimes in the mtns or desert canyons there can be severe day/nite temp swings. This caused the Schneideritis on
my ole Symmar S. The 250/6.7 Fuji I used never developed this problem, but it was more recent, in Copal rather than Seiko.
It will obviously affect resale value, but I wouldn't worry too much about using such a lens if everything else is fine.

[Lachlan 717]

would this affects the images taken with this lens?

Not at all.

The image you linked is about as bad as I've seen with a Fujinon. More common is the small dots, rather than crazing.

92473

[tenderobject]

thanks guys. i'm looking for a good 8x10 lens right now. :D hopefully i could snatch a good one from japan.

[Alan Gales]

I'd be curious to read if anyone else has seen this. I haven't.

Contrast aside, you might find this comparison (http://www.kenleegallery.com/html/tech/BokehComparison.html) I'm not saying that there are no differences, only that they are not always as blatant as some people suggest, or even discernible for that matter.

I agree.

When I was young I was a member of St. Louis Camera Club which was a very large club and had a lot of members. Most everyone shot 35mm slides which were projected for critique. There were members who owned Contax RTS ll's, Nikon F3's and Leica M series cameras. There were also plenty of people who shot Canon AE1's, Minolta X700's and Pentax K1000's. Looking up at that screen I couldn't begin to tell you what was shot with which camera or lens.

[Alan Gales]

That said, I still love my 14" Commercial Ektar! :)

[Simon Benton]

<Quote> e: Why Fujinon lenses are cheap compare to others?

Originally Posted by John NYC

Fujinons can get little white dots around where the lenses elements meet the housing.

Ken Lee I'd be curious to read if anyone else has seen this. I haven't. <quote>

I have a 250mm f6.7 Fujinon with white dots just like the Schneideritis on some Schneider lenses. Got it for $144 from KEH because of this and makes no difference at all on results. I also had a 300mm Fujinon with the same white dots.

[Drew Wiley]

Alan - When I was a kid and my brother a commercial photographer via Tecknika, SL66 etc. He had a buddy who routinely won
national and even international slide competitions (pro careers were often perked by such things back then), and he would
only use Leica/Zeiss optics. Not the best thing for closeups - but if you were into serious projector competitions, everyone
swore you could see the difference. When I got financially on my own feet and could afford my own color darkroom, I actually
preferred (for printing) the lower-contrast Kodachromes I got with my humble early Pentax lenses. That little camera wore out
long ago, and I soon moved on to LF, but I kept the lens, just in case I stumble onto a mint old Pentax body! My super-duper Nikon lenses have whole different look to them. Same nuance distinctions in LF. Even though I have a deadly crisp
360 Fuji A, and a classic Kern dagor in the same focal length, I also covet a 14"Ektar for just a little different flavor.

[Alan Gales]

Wow, Drew! Your brother's friend is quite impressive. What an accomplishment!

I used to shoot Contax and owned five Zeiss lenses. I got an unbelievable deal on a Minolta once when I was young. I put a roll of print film through it and offered to sell it to a friend for a modest profit. Hey, after all I was a poor college student who needed film money! He swore that my 4x6 photos were shot with my Contax and not the Minolta. I finally convinced him and he bought the camera and was very happy with it. Like you can really see a huge difference in a 4x6 machine print! :)

Sure there are subtle differences in lenses. I just think that some people make a huge deal out of these differences when it's more the photographer than anything else. I just bet your brother's friend would have still won all those contests shooting Canon, Minolta, Pentax, etc. glass instead. The man had talent.

[Colin D]

Not that I'm an expert but you don't seem to get the same degree of variation in LF lenses as you do in 35mm. After owning multiple Japanese 35mm cams I ended up with a Leica M and a number of Leitz lenses. Absolutely no doubt they had a unique look and appeal to them I never saw in my Nikon, Pentax, Konica or Olympus.

I have a Fujinon 250 W f6.7 in Seiko shutter and it performs perfectly well for me, wouldn't trade it.

[John NYC]

Not that I'm an expert but you don't seem to get the same degree of variation in LF lenses as you do in 35mm.
...
I have a Fujinon 250 W f6.7 in Seiko shutter and it performs perfectly well for me, wouldn't trade it.

Just to clarify my earlier post... The variation between the "big four" is slight for sure. My comment about my 150mm Schneider being subtly the best late modern lens I have owned could just as easily have to do with sample variation, I would suppose. On 8x10, my best late modern lens was my Fujinon 250W f/6.7!

[ImSoNegative]

I too have often wondered about the price differences, I have 3 myself and I think they are great

[Drew Wiley]

Alan - this was back in the 60's and Zeiss lenses did make a difference in a pro slide show. I presume most of the subject matter back in that era was relatively corny blatantly "colorful" contest stuff anyway, but that's what those competitions were all about. And when they printed something, it was always dye transfer, which has still never been excelled for sheer color pop. Not all new large format lenses offered by companies even like Schneider were fully color corrected, and Commercial Ektars were carefully selected for critical color response. Today it would be quite difficult to distinguish shots taken by comparable focal length "normal" plastmats from any of the big four.

[Alan Gales]

Hello Drew,

Ok, that makes a lot of sense. It's also very interesting.

I didn't start shooting 35mm until the early 1980's so of course my experience was quite different.

[JeRuFo]

I have mistrusted my fujinons when I first got them, just because of the price. My 150 I got very cheap and my 135 was part of a deal, but I got it almost for free. The 135 is probably my most used landscape lens on 4x5 now.

[tenderobject]

ok, so i got a fujinon 250 6.7. what would be the next focal length for me to buy for my 8x10? :D

[Alan Gales]

ok, so i got a fujinon 250 6.7. what would be the next focal length for me to buy for my 8x10? :D

How about a 14" or 360mm? After that you will probably want a long lens like a 450mm or 480mm or maybe you will want a wide lens like a 150mm or 165mm.

See what you started by buying that first lens? ;)

[Daniel Stone]

ok, so i got a fujinon 250 6.7. what would be the next focal length for me to buy for my 8x10? :D

Use it for a few months by itself.

Take notes when out. Make a small table on a card, and designate a few columns to the following:
1. Wider(than your 250mm)
2. Slightly longer(say, 1.5x)
3. Much Longer(say, 2x-3x)

When out photographing, put a mark in each column when your vision requires a view that cannot be "seen" in the way you want to convey the chosen scene on the g/g with your new-to-you 250mm lens.

The other thing you can do is use a viewing card, it's a bit lighter than carrying your camera around all the time, but can help you 'previsualize' a shot and a potentially req'd focal length to show it the way you want to shoot it.

-Dan

[tenderobject]

thanks alan. i think i'll go with the 360mm. i'm fine with the semi wide 250mm for 8x10. i have 90mm on 4x5 before and now it's in my 617 camera. i find it to wide for me.. i would like to shoot tighter images on 8x10. :D 360mm would be nice for portrait!



How about a 14" or 360mm? After that you will probably want a long lens like a 450mm or 480mm or maybe you will want a wide lens like a 150mm or 165mm.

See what you started by buying that first lens? ;)

[tenderobject]

wow, thank you daniel for the tip! this is very helpful! i would like to get a good portrait lens for my 8x10 asap. i'll keep this in mind.

by the way, i got this lens from the bay. the one posted here. hahaha


http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Fuji-Fujinon-WS-250mm-f-6-7-lens-Seiko-shutter-TOYO-VIEW-lensboard-/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/czUAAMXQBwlRVFrh/$T2eC16N,!yUE9s6NDMq2BRVFrgu+I!~~60_3.JPG


Use it for a few months by itself.

Take notes when out. Make a small table on a card, and designate a few columns to the following:
1. Wider(than your 250mm)
2. Slightly longer(say, 1.5x)
3. Much Longer(say, 2x-3x)

When out photographing, put a mark in each column when your vision requires a view that cannot be "seen" in the way you want to convey the chosen scene on the g/g with your new-to-you 250mm lens.

The other thing you can do is use a viewing card, it's a bit lighter than carrying your camera around all the time, but can help you 'previsualize' a shot and a potentially req'd focal length to show it the way you want to shoot it.

-Dan

[rustyair]

by the way, i got this lens from the bay. the one posted here. hahaha


http://i.ebayimg.com/t/Fuji-Fujinon-WS-250mm-f-6-7-lens-Seiko-shutter-TOYO-VIEW-lensboard-/00/s/NDgwWDY0MA==/z/czUAAMXQBwlRVFrh/$T2eC16N,!yUE9s6NDMq2BRVFrgu+I!~~60_3.JPG




One of a kind!:D

[jb7]

Shouldn't I be getting a finder's fee?

[tenderobject]

hahahaha thanks man! i didn't knew about the lens you posted was from ebay. i've been watching fujinon lenses for the past weeks now before i found this one. i thought it was from old listing. actually it's funny there is a very good condition 250 6.7 for weeks that wasn't sold. it just sold when my funds gets in! I should've bought that instead of this. but since i need other stuff for my 8x10 setup i ended up bidding on this one. :D The lens is a user copy. I just hope it still performs as good as it is. It has scratches in the rear element and that white thing on the front element. i believe in you guys so i think i'm sold with this. now i'm looking for a cheap fujinon w 360mm. :D

THANKS GUYS!!!


Shouldn't I be getting a finder's fee?